[robreke]

Second time this has happened with the same girl.

Me- early 40s....look younger...10 day stubble,
Her - mid 20s ....grad student applying for med school ...Kind of body I love....brunette, on the shorter side....little ball of low body fat muscle. Probably a former cheerleader.
Place - local coffee shop.

I submit this just to try to understand her incongruent behavior and learn if this is something that any one else has seen and ( successfully ) dealt with.

Saw her a few weeks back. When I walked in, she sitting down on her laptop and was looking at me. Eye contact. A kind of a warm smile. I sat in front of her. A few minutes later she got up to go to the bathroom and made a point to kind of turn her head and look at me and smile. I'm thinking....this should be an easy approach.

When she comes back and sits. I wait a few minutes and turn around and have to signal for her to take her headphones off. "Excuse me, is that a good laptop"....just trying to get a convo going. She talks briefly about it. When I try to further the conversation, it's very short... basically one word answers. Starting to avoid eye contact on her part. SHe asks nothing about me despite my dropping bait. I could feel this was going nowhere so I just let it die. Later...when she got up again to walk around I tried to make eye contact and she stonily did her best to ignore me. So...I say to myself..."I guess when I talked to her...she got a better look at my face and decided I wasn't her type."

So...Today...I'm in the coffeeshop first sitting down. She comes in. She puts her stuff behind me at the table behind me ( again ) and gets in line to get a water. As she's in line...she keeps glancing at me. I catch her looking and she gives a small smile and looks away. I kind of acknowledged her...then pretended to be on my phone. I was looking out the window talking. She gets in line a few minutes later to get something else...again...I catch her looking at me out of the corner of her eye and when I meet her eye she looks away. Caught her doing this at least 3 times.

So.....I wait about 20 minutes as I'm about to leave and turn around....again, I have to motion her to take her headphones out ( damn things ). I ask her if she is by chance in med school. "No I'm studying MCat"....me: Oh...yeah...I thought you looked familiar we chatted a few weeks ago....I asked you about your laptop" Her: "Oh yeah" I'm smiling as I talk and was getting some smiling from her and eye contact. But it was one and two word answers all the way. Very abrupt stuff.
After about a minute....I say something about not stressing out on the test....she says " good" and puts her headphone back in and burys her face in her book again....basically as I'm still turned around looking at her.
I'm thinking WTF? Why all the eye contact and IOIs ( seemingly ) and then her complete unwillingness to do any conversation? I know she's smart enough to have a conversation as she's applying for freaking med school and taking the MCAT. Should I persist and assume she's shy next time? Should next time I just go direct before she can stuff the damn earphones back in her ear? This kind of incongruent behavior confuses me and I'm wondering if anyone has dealt with this. Also...I'm sure I'll see her again and no telling what she'll do next time in terms of pre approach signals.

[Christian McQueen]

This is a big reason why I'm a proponent of direct game: it's less of a time waster.

Go direct. Get her number. Stop beating around the bush.

As far as her IOIs, girls will flirt sometimes with zero intention, that's why going direct will tell you if she's serious or not.

[robreke]

(07-13-2014 06:38 PM)Christian McQueen Wrote:  

This is a big reason why I'm a proponent of direct game: it's less of a time waster.

Go direct. Get her number. Stop beating around the bush.

As far as her IOIs, girls will flirt sometimes with zero intention, that's why going direct will tell you if she's serious or not.

I will go direct next time with her. In your experience and In this case with this girl....do you think her non talkativeness on the approach is her real attraction level vs. her strong eye contact before. ie.....she's not interested?

[Christian McQueen]

The IOI 'rule' that generally never fails me is the Look of 3.

1 look from a girl could just be her looking around the room. I do it with everyone doesn't mean I want to fuck the fattie in the corner slurping down her 3rd mocha frappicino of the day.

2 looks from a girl is still not 100%. She may think you look like someone she knows and is making sure you're not.

3 looks is definite interest, BUT if you approach and your game isn't congruent with your look then she may instantly lose attraction. This is why the myth that good looking guys have it really easy is false. Being good looking will get your foot in the door, but if you don't have game then she could lose attraction for you instantly.

Lastly, and this is key, don't worry too much about IOI's. Some of my best approaches and lays came with ZERO IOI's from the girl.

Be a man. If you see a girl you're attracted to approach her. Don't wait passively on the sidelines until she gives you a physical okay.

This is something even in my game I get lazy about and will defer to girls who only send IOIs, but your post is a good reminder for me as well to just approach and not wait.

[Tough lucky Luke]

(07-13-2014 06:38 PM)Christian McQueen Wrote:  

This is a big reason why I'm a proponent of direct game: it's less of a time waster.

Go direct. Get her number. Stop beating around the bush.

As far as her IOIs, girls will flirt sometimes with zero intention, that's why going direct will tell you if she's serious or not.

It's not really that they have zero intention... More like : they have intentions and mental states that we, as men, cannot easily understand : intentions more volitive than executive, and as such, not full-fledged intentions!

A good read on this, especially if you want to feel asleep in your bed, fast : Alfred R. Mele (1992) : Springs of Action. Understanding Intentional Behavior and Clueless Bitches.

[Christian McQueen]

It is that they have zero intentions.

Girls constantly will flirt with guys with zero intention of going on a date or fucking them, simply for VALIDATION.

This generation is the worst when it comes to this. In fact I've heard directly from some girls that they get more of a kick off of how many Instagram likes they get then having sex.

I'll check out the book though, thanks.

[robreke]

(07-13-2014 06:59 PM)Christian McQueen Wrote:  

The IOI 'rule' that generally never fails me is the Look of 3.

1 look from a girl could just be her looking around the room. I do it with everyone doesn't mean I want to fuck the fattie in the corner slurping down her 3rd mocha frappicino of the day.

2 looks from a girl is still not 100%. She may think you look like someone she knows and is making sure you're not.

3 looks is definite interest, BUT if you approach and your game isn't congruent with your look then she may instantly lose attraction. This is why the myth that good looking guys have it really easy is false. Being good looking will get your foot in the door, but if you don't have game then she could lose attraction for you instantly.

Lastly, and this is key, don't worry too much about IOI's. Some of my best approaches and lays came with ZERO IOI's from the girl.

Be a man. If you see a girl you're attracted to approach her. Don't wait passively on the sidelines until she gives you a physical okay.

This is something even in my game I get lazy about and will defer to girls who only send IOIs, but your post is a good reminder for me as well to just approach and not wait.

I got at least 3 looks from this girl just today. If I see her again....I will go direct on her and report.

FWIW...I do think I have "decent" game and am a pretty talkative and witty guy. But it's tough to run game when right from the get go...they're offering NOTHING in return but one word answers and polite smiles. For example, I've picked up a decent handful of women the past few months using indirect that have resulted in dates , etc. So...based on this, I don't come across as a robot or whatever when I open my mouth and am able to close numbers and dates.

As far as going direct more often, I am also going to try that in general.....I've struggled with this and usually go indirect via Roosh's daygame.

Another reason of not being direct is because, if I really self examine, now that I'm 40+ I tend toward thinking I need to talk to them indirectly...get them to show interest during the conversation with me...THEN, go for the number. I only hit on women in their 20s. ie. I'm letting my age get into my psyche and keeping me from going direct often. Indirect has been working okay so far with younger women....hit or miss.

The only times I have gone direct in the past month were twice at a starbucks. It was when the women looked and smiled at me as they were walking in ( I was at an outside table both times). When they came out, I stopped them and told them I thought they were cute...etc. Got the number both times. Both girls were 25. ( Sad thing is...both of these women were just passing through...didn't live here...ha )

[Tough lucky Luke]

(07-13-2014 07:11 PM)Christian McQueen Wrote:  

It is that they have zero intentions.

Girls constantly will flirt with guys with zero intention of going on a date or fucking them, simply for VALIDATION.

This generation is the worst when it comes to this. In fact I've heard directly from some girls that they get more of a kick off of how many Instagram likes they get then having sex.

I'll check out the book though, thanks.

Then, please note that the real title is, Springs of Action. Understanding Intentional Behavior, by Alfred R. Mele (1992, Oxford ed.)

I've added, and Clueless Bitches to the title myself , so, don't ask about it at your local bookshop

But seriously, I of course agree, Validation and Pride is a huge kick off/motive for most girl's actions. They often play us for validation, or plain training. Or just out of cruelty, or boredom, sometimes.

[Christian McQueen]

^

I thought it was the title. Was thinking props to the author and how the hell did he get that published.

[Tough lucky Luke]

(07-13-2014 07:46 PM)Christian McQueen Wrote:  

^

I thought it was the title. Was thinking props to the author and how the hell did he get that published.

lol, to have a book titled "... and clueless bitches" published by Oxford University Press, would be quite something!

Anyway, maybe we have a title idea for the next Roosh's book? "Odessa splendors and clueless bitches"