[Willy Wonka]

I know most of the time to use the agree and amplify method, and I think I've been doing alright with that lately... recent examples:

Her: Are you smart?
Me: I'm a genius.

Her: Are you strong.
Me: What you mean? I won the Worlds Strongest Man contest last year... you didn't see me on ESPN? You should DVR that...

Anyway... lately I've been getting girls pushing for shit. Particularly, dinner. I know Roosh says not to do dinner days and Paul the King had a recent post basically saying DON'T DO DINNER DATES. Not only that, but I don't the chicks to be able to control what we do on the date like that...

Example 1: A couple if weeks ago, when I was chillin with Accounting Chick and she said, "you should buy me dinner" I tried to push back by saying "no you should cook me dinner" but a lot of yall in the comments seemed to think I pushed too hard for her to cook, and some even said I came off like a whiney baby. Plus I caved anyway and hit a drivethru and bought us both some fried chicken....

Example 2: RIGHT FUCKING NOW. Was tryin to set up a date with Ghetto Club over drinks... she wanted to do HH, I told her I couldn't and we should meet up later though and gave her a time. And she responds, "can we do dinner and drinks???"

How do I answer this.

I know yes is the wrong answer. Trying to push back and getting her to either buy dinner or cook is likely to fail and just come off as pushy and not go over well... and agree and amplify doesn't seem to work here... so how to play it?

Any thoughts? Advice?

[Roosh]

Quote:

How do I answer this.

Don't. No response. It's a really bad sign if a girl is straight-up asking for dinner (you are putting out a provider vibe to her). Withdrawal is your best bet. Offering a funny or playful comeback is also weak because it will now make it seem like you're trying to keep the interaction alive (i.e. you don't want to "lose" her).

Another possible response would be along the lines of "no" without any hint of smiley face emoticons.

Let her ping you again, and then pretend she didn't even ask for dinner by going for drinks only (in other words, a date scheduled for 9pm or later).

[Willy Wonka]

Yeah.. it was a 9:30 date, and she still tried to get dinner out of it! (College chick...)

I responded with "Naw, nevermind..."

And she flipped out and cussed me out and called me rude.
I was shocked. Never seen/expected some shit like that.

Oh, well... so much for getting my Dominican flag

[Roosh]

Quote:

And she flipped out and cussed me out and called me rude.

She felt entitled, because every other guy bought her dinner instead of putting her in her place.

[Kickb]

I guess ill add to the thread.

what would you do if a chick is on facebook being all cunty to a guy because he says no guy really cares or is jealous of justin beiber.

i said "brians right, we dont give a fuck" im pretty sure i should have just avoided this stupid status entirely but oh well

then she says "All i got out of that post was jealousy"

[Duke Castile]

(03-01-2011 11:19 PM)kickboxer Wrote:  

I guess ill add to the thread.

what would you do if a chick is on facebook being all cunty to a guy because he says no guy really cares or is jealous of justin beiber.

i said "brians right, we dont give a fuck" im pretty sure i should have just avoided this stupid status entirely but oh well

then she says "All i got out of that post was jealousy"

If by "jealousy" you really mean "indifference", then yes.

[rivelino]

girl says:

"you should buy me dinner"

or

"can we do dinner and drinks???"

i feel that simply not replying -- punishing her with silence -- or saying "no", and then waiting for her to pursue you again, i feel that that can come off as brittle and bitter.

the real alpha man finds girls amusing and entertaining. everything she does is for your amusement. the key is to frame every time she talks to you -- any of her communication to you -- as a sign of her being interested in you in a fun and sexual way. she has the hots for you. she is being drawn into your sexual gravitational pull.

yohami is an expert at just being alpha. at not needing to play games. at just being a real man. i was just thinking that a similar shit test was discussed a while back. a girl was telling the rookie, "can you cook? are you going to cook for me?".

these were some of yohami's replies:

- Yeah (laugh) I know what you want, but Im not giving that easy
- What, food? are you hungry?
- Thats funny, any recipes you can teach me?
- Hey Im used to girls cooking for me, but I can try if you are reeeeeaaaaalllllyyyyyy hungryyyy
- I didnt know you got turned on by food

http://alpharivelino.wordpress.com/2010/...ok-for-me/

i know i would get annoyed if a girl flat out said, "you should buy me dinner", but i really think you can flip that investment -- that energy she is giving you and focusing on you -- and turn it into sexual energy and sexual tension.

i can't do this at will, not even close, but once in a while, when i am in the zone, i can. although not over text, in person.

in person, if a girl said,

"you should cook for me"

i would reply with a sly grin and alpha rock hard subtext, and say, "oh yeah, are you hungry?", and that would be money, because all of a sudden, we are talking about sex, and i am framing her as the sexual girl who needs my cock.

i guess over text, i would say, "if you are hungry, come to my place and we will cook a meal together :-) " which is slightly long reply, but is still playful and sexual.

as for the first two questions, are you strong, are you smart --- wtf. she shouldn't be qualifying you, you should be qualifying her. that is basic frame control. agree and amplify does not work there. you CANNOT be jumping into her frame.

[rivelino]

(03-01-2011 11:19 PM)kickboxer Wrote:  

then she says "All i got out of that post was jealousy"

points for her. she framed you as jealous, and that is a killer. that is essentially checkmate.

again, a real man has amused mastery over his life. everything a girl does is for his entertainment. life is beautiful and life is fun. a real man is not bitter of other men.

[thegmanifesto]

Willy Wonka

"How do I answer this."

Here is your problem: you are not dictating the action.

In Boxing, there are two old adages:

"Get off first" (so to speak)

And "Fight your fight"

You are essentially letting her "Get off first" and you are fighting her fight.

When you call a girl, (please young ones, stop with this texting crap), you need to have a clear plan of attack and a goal in mind (setting a meet up). Know your entry and exit points before you get into the trade.

Lead the girl.

This is what they all want. Its in their nature.

You really want to fight against human nature?

[that guy]

Agree, set a time, then cancel on her day of with no other explanation than "something came up"

Hit her up later on your terms

[BR88]

So....what do you guys do on dates?

[raliv]

"Agree, set a time, then cancel on her day of with no other explanation than "something came up"

Hit her up later on your terms"


Imagine the mindfucking she will get if you do that. That is certainly putting the shoe on the other foot. Has anyone done this before? I have always just blown off dinner dates completely.

[Vesuvius]

This seems right IMO because, well what am I getting out of the equation?

I buy her dinner, she doesn't put out. Zero Sum

She puts out, I buy her dinner. Positive Sum

She cooks me dinner and then puts out. That's what I'm looking for.

Should we be opening doors for women these days, or is that old hat? IMO we shouldn't be because it gives the female the idea that she is more important?

[gringoed]

(03-05-2011 07:12 PM)Vesuvius Wrote:  

This seems right IMO because, well what am I getting out of the equation?

I buy her dinner, she doesn't put out. Zero Sum

She puts out, I buy her dinner. Positive Sum

She cooks me dinner and then puts out. That's what I'm looking for.

Should we be opening doors for women these days, or is that old hat? IMO we shouldn't be because it gives the female the idea that she is more important?

I still open doors for girls, pull out their chairs, and other chivalrous things because it encourages the idea of gender roles. You provide me with X, and I'll provide you with Y. If she's cooking you dinner, just open the damn door for her.

[GrumpStar]

(03-08-2011 01:59 AM)gringoed Wrote:  

(03-05-2011 07:12 PM)Vesuvius Wrote:  

This seems right IMO because, well what am I getting out of the equation?

I buy her dinner, she doesn't put out. Zero Sum

She puts out, I buy her dinner. Positive Sum

She cooks me dinner and then puts out. That's what I'm looking for.

Should we be opening doors for women these days, or is that old hat? IMO we shouldn't be because it gives the female the idea that she is more important?

I still open doors for girls, pull out their chairs, and other chivalrous things because it encourages the idea of gender roles. You provide me with X, and I'll provide you with Y. If she's cooking you dinner, just open the damn door for her.

Yes dude, open the door for her. It encourages her to be feminine as has been mentioned... but as soon as she does some bull-dyke thing put her in her place as a women immediately. Treat her like a women (be polite, open the door, open CAR doors because most girls love that) but be sure not to accept any behavior to the contrary.

[K-man]

"you should buy me dinner" - is she on food stamps or what? I don't think that shit flies anymore in the US.
there are countries, however, where it is expected you buy the girl dinner. but in those countries, dinner for two would not cost more than $20-30 with drinks, and you won't be sorry.
I would just reply "and you should give me pussy" or something along those lines. that may not get you the pussy, but it doesn't seem it would be a great loss anyway. it will save you the time, effort, and $$$ of wining and dining an entitled slut (who gave the pussy for free to some badboy who never bought her dinner).

[thegmanifesto]

gringoed - "I still open doors for girls, pull out their chairs, and other chivalrous things because it encourages the idea of gender roles."

Excellent point. There is so much weesh info that says you shouldn't do things like this. It's BS.

This is basically what my whole Game is based on: Me playing the role of the dashing Man and her playing the role of the feminine girl.

It works wonders.

And it is what girls want.

[Screwston]

This girl flaked on me Saturday when we had something set up. She texted me today asking about a date or movies tonight lol. I feel like telling her to meet me somewhere and not showing up.

[hydrogonian]

"you should buy me dinner"

if she's serious, you'd be dumb not to accept. This is one case in which over-thinking "shit tests" will lead to you getting less pussy. Women, generally, don't go to dinner with guys who they wouldn't consider fucking. Now, whether that happens or not depends on you. You better alpha it up at dinner, just to make sure that you aren't getting cornered into a pandering role in her eyes.

However, if for some reason you think that the question is a shit test ie: she's trying to mindfuck and subvert you into a beta role instead of get some one on one time to eventually fuck you, then you have to come back with the only line that evens the playing field:

"Perhaps. Do I get some sex out of it?"

She's asking for something that costs money, in a cocky way, and so you ask for sex. Those are the currencies of man/woman relationships. Sex and money. If she wants to make it raw, then you have to speak on the same terms. There really is no alternate comeback that would be more correct than that, imo. In any case where a woman is trying to beta a man into a provider role. Especially when there is no prior relationship. You have to show her that you understand the exchange of goods and services that she is requesting. If she's looking for a free dinner only, then you've avoided being treated like a beta, and made her feel like a whore for fucking with you. If she's looking for dinner and sex, then she will come around.

I disagree that the sex should be asked for with subtle innuendo, if she's being a cocky bitch. Put her back on her heels. She'll probably flinch. But guess what? It will fucking turn her on too. If she musters up the balls to deal with you after that, and approach again, then it's on for sure.

[gringoed]

"you should buy me dinner"

Response: "Good idea, I'll buy it, you cook it! And dessert will be something special, I promise."




By the way, if you haven't incorporated food into the bedroom you're missing out. Just remember to warm everything up first!

[Gmac]

[quote='hydrogonian' pid='46053' dateline='1299630056']
"you should buy me dinner"

if she's serious, you'd be dumb not to accept. This is one case in which over-thinking "shit tests" will lead to you getting less pussy. Women, generally, don't go to dinner with guys who they wouldn't consider fucking. Now, whether that happens or not depends on you. You better alpha it up at dinner, just to make sure that you aren't getting cornered into a pandering role in her eyes.[quote]

What are you talking about? Women use betas ALL THE TIME for free dinner, especially with men they have no interest in fucking. Tried and true method, don't buy her dinner till you've fucked her -- and even then avoid at all costs if possible. Remember, be a skittles man.

[quote]However, if for some reason you think that the question is a shit test ie: she's trying to mindfuck and subvert you into a beta role instead of get some one on one time to eventually fuck you, then you have to come back with the only line that evens the playing field:

"Perhaps. Do I get some sex out of it?"

She's asking for something that costs money, in a cocky way, and so you ask for sex. Those are the currencies of man/woman relationships. Sex and money. If she wants to make it raw, then you have to speak on the same terms. There really is no alternate comeback that would be more correct than that, imo. In any case where a woman is trying to beta a man into a provider role. Especially when there is no prior relationship. You have to show her that you understand the exchange of goods and services that she is requesting. If she's looking for a free dinner only, then you've avoided being treated like a beta, and made her feel like a whore for fucking with you. If she's looking for dinner and sex, then she will come around.

I disagree that the sex should be asked for with subtle innuendo, if she's being a cocky bitch. Put her back on her heels. She'll probably flinch. But guess what? It will fucking turn her on too. If she musters up the balls to deal with you after that, and approach again, then it's on for sure.
[/quote]

Women ask for shit all the time knowing they won't end up putting out. That's why girls go out with zero cash and can get trashed off some beta buying her drinks all night. I see it every night I go out, and the chick usually leaves him towards the end for an alpha in the place. The sad (priceless) look on his face is crystal clear.

[thegmanifesto]

(03-08-2011 07:20 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

"you should buy me dinner"

if she's serious, you'd be dumb not to accept. This is one case in which over-thinking "shit tests" will lead to you getting less pussy. Women, generally, don't go to dinner with guys who they wouldn't consider fucking. Now, whether that happens or not depends on you. You better alpha it up at dinner, just to make sure that you aren't getting cornered into a pandering role in her eyes.

However, if for some reason you think that the question is a shit test ie: she's trying to mindfuck and subvert you into a beta role instead of get some one on one time to eventually fuck you, then you have to come back with the only line that evens the playing field:

"Perhaps. Do I get some sex out of it?"

She's asking for something that costs money, in a cocky way, and so you ask for sex. Those are the currencies of man/woman relationships. Sex and money. If she wants to make it raw, then you have to speak on the same terms. There really is no alternate comeback that would be more correct than that, imo. In any case where a woman is trying to beta a man into a provider role. Especially when there is no prior relationship. You have to show her that you understand the exchange of goods and services that she is requesting. If she's looking for a free dinner only, then you've avoided being treated like a beta, and made her feel like a whore for fucking with you. If she's looking for dinner and sex, then she will come around.

I disagree that the sex should be asked for with subtle innuendo, if she's being a cocky bitch. Put her back on her heels. She'll probably flinch. But guess what? It will fucking turn her on too. If she musters up the balls to deal with you after that, and approach again, then it's on for sure.

I think there is way too much over thinking in the "Pua" world.

Let's look at this realistically: the girl wants to go to dinner with you.

Roll with her, and if your Game is tight, everything should work out. (Also, I have broken down here before about how to handle "dinner" with girls. It is not in the traditional sense.)

Until you make the "meeting" happen, you are not even in the Game. Hell, you are not even in the stadium. You are out in the parking lot with all the other weesh guys wearing other mens jerseys.

If you are worried about paying for dinner and you are really that broke, go out and earn.

Or play it "G Manifesto Style" and lock down a restaurant and get a discounted bill or get the meal "on the arm". Get your Game tight.

(And when I refer to the word "Game", I refer to it in an old-school sense, meaning your life not just girls.)

It's interesting to me how so many guys on here bitch about how women today aren't playing the feminine role any more.

How about men today aren't playing the masculine role?

It's our job to be the protector and the financial breadwinner.

It's their job to cook, clean, give backrubs, blowers etc.

This topic probably could use a new thread.

[Gmac]

(03-09-2011 05:58 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(03-08-2011 07:20 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

"you should buy me dinner"

if she's serious, you'd be dumb not to accept. This is one case in which over-thinking "shit tests" will lead to you getting less pussy. Women, generally, don't go to dinner with guys who they wouldn't consider fucking. Now, whether that happens or not depends on you. You better alpha it up at dinner, just to make sure that you aren't getting cornered into a pandering role in her eyes.

However, if for some reason you think that the question is a shit test ie: she's trying to mindfuck and subvert you into a beta role instead of get some one on one time to eventually fuck you, then you have to come back with the only line that evens the playing field:

"Perhaps. Do I get some sex out of it?"

She's asking for something that costs money, in a cocky way, and so you ask for sex. Those are the currencies of man/woman relationships. Sex and money. If she wants to make it raw, then you have to speak on the same terms. There really is no alternate comeback that would be more correct than that, imo. In any case where a woman is trying to beta a man into a provider role. Especially when there is no prior relationship. You have to show her that you understand the exchange of goods and services that she is requesting. If she's looking for a free dinner only, then you've avoided being treated like a beta, and made her feel like a whore for fucking with you. If she's looking for dinner and sex, then she will come around.

I disagree that the sex should be asked for with subtle innuendo, if she's being a cocky bitch. Put her back on her heels. She'll probably flinch. But guess what? It will fucking turn her on too. If she musters up the balls to deal with you after that, and approach again, then it's on for sure.

I think there is way too much over thinking in the "Pua" world.

Let's look at this realistically: the girl wants to go to dinner with you.

Roll with her, and if your Game is tight, everything should work out. (Also, I have broken down here before about how to handle "dinner" with girls. It is not in the traditional sense.)

Until you make the "meeting" happen, you are not even in the Game. Hell, you are not even in the stadium. You are out in the parking lot with all the other weesh guys wearing other mens jerseys.

If you are worried about paying for dinner and you are really that broke, go out and earn.

Or play it "G Manifesto Style" and lock down a restaurant and get a discounted bill or get the meal "on the arm". Get your Game tight.

(And when I refer to the word "Game", I refer to it in an old-school sense, meaning your life not just girls.)

It's interesting to me how so many guys on here bitch about how women today aren't playing the feminine role any more.

How about men today aren't playing the masculine role?

It's our job to be the protector and the financial breadwinner.

It's their job to cook, clean, give backrubs, blowers etc.

This topic probably could use a new thread.

I don't care to play roles when I'm pump and dumping girls. The cheaper the notch the better. When and if I'm ready to settle down I'll become the protector/provider, until then I'll be a skittles man.

[thegmanifesto]

"The cheaper the notch the better. "

Of course, all things being equal.

My points are:

1. If a guy is playing the traditional feminine role in a relationship, he has no ground to stand on when he complains that modern girls aren't feminine.

2. Don't let the cost of a "dinner" get in the way of having a great night with a quality girl.

[Gmac]

(03-10-2011 02:59 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

"The cheaper the notch the better. "

Of course, all things being equal.

My points are:

1. If a guy is playing the traditional feminine role in a relationship, he has no ground to stand on when he complains that modern girls aren't feminine.

2. Don't let the cost of a "dinner" get in the way of having a great night with a quality girl.

My goal (like most guys here) is to get laid, period.

Based on my own experience, dinner dates don't lead to sex. They end up with me feeling like a fucking dumb ass for plopping down $80 on a dinner that would have been better spent on an entire night of drinks. Too formal and often uncomfortable especially if you don't have that much in common with that "quality" girl.

If I've already plundered her castle, buying her dinner once in a while is just a way to keep the door to pussy open for a while.

I used to be an old-fashioned gentleman who always opened doors for women and took them out to dinner on the first date or second date -- and I look back and laugh at the wasted money and time. If I'd focused more on building attraction in other settings and plundering castles before preparing feasts, I would have been much more satisfied sooner rather than later.

That aside, I have no problem using my chef skills to cook for women I haven't slept with at home because I'm almost guaranteed to get it that night.