[Nomad77]

I know the general consensus is that a girl has to be attracted to you in order to get sex from her BUT I don't believe this needs to be true 100% of the time. I believe if you can get a girl sexually aroused that there is a good chance you can have sex with her and I am going to use myself as an example.

My cousin in NJ took me to a dive bar while I was up there last week. We walked in an there weren't many people in the place, there were two chubby, older, latin women at the bar. If you had asked me when I walked in if I was attractive to either of them I would have said NO. If you had asked me, if I would have made out with either of them, I would have said NO WAY. Yet, that was exactly what I was doing about an hour later. And this is how it happened...

We went to the bar to get some drinks, I wasn't even looking for girls. We were standing by the bar looking around when one of them moved over next to me and said something, I don't even remember what. Anyway, for the next half an hour she would keep talking to me now and again. She was a little drunk. I wasn't drunk, maybe just a little buzzed. I wasn't mean to her but I certainly wasn't friendly but she didn't seem to care. After awhile she moved even closer to me, like her body against my side. Since, I never back down from any woman I wasn't about to move away. I held my ground. As she kept talking to me she started touching me. As first, I figure I would just humor her but after a bit I knew I was allowing her. I could have moved but I didn't and the truthful answer was: I didn't move because it simply felt good. Even though I wasn't attracted to her, her warm, soft body against me felt good and her sensual touches felt good. So I allowed it to continue. And she kept it up, to keep the story short, she kept it up until we started making out and we went at it for awhile.

Now, how did this happen? It happened because she got me aroused and once I got aroused it just didn't matter that much any more if I found her attractive or not. I gave into my arousal and if we were alone in the bar there was a good chance I would have ended up in bed with her somewhere. Now, if this same woman had gotten my phone number and called me up to ask me out, would I say yes? No, way, I wouldn't be caught dead with her in public. But that night, once I allowed her to get me going, it was difficult for me to stop myself. And this works the same with a woman too. If you can get a woman aroused there is a good chance that you can have sex with her even if she doesn't like you or find you particular attractive. She may not ever want to see you again or she may just want to see you as a secret f-buddy but there is a good chance you can get her.

So is attraction necessary for arousal, nope. Arousal works independent of attraction and if you can get a woman aroused you can have sex with her. It happened to me that night and if it can happen to me, it can happen to anyone. And I am not going to lie, she may not have been the very attractive but she sure felt good and she was good, sexually.

[Bill]

Yes that´s true. That´s probably why still many guys like fat girls. Fat chics are more motivated to seduce, to work, to game. One can become comfortable with it. That´s why many guys like fat chics more than slim chicks.

There were some not so attractive chicks who still make me hot when I think of them. I had a girl who was a 9 at least for me but I don´t have sexy fantasies about her.

[lush1]

Interestingly the most beautiful girls I've known in my life I have not felt a strong sense of arousal towards. Attraction yes but I don't think lustfully when I look at them, I can't come when I masturbate thinking about them. Don't know why this is but felt it was relevant to the discussion, haha

[Bill]

This reminds me of pornstars. Many of them are not that great looking but their game is strong. Good looking girls are mostly starfish. It takes two to dance a tango.

With a stunner you have many times in the background of your mind that you should not make an error because it´s a rare chance. So what happens is that the rationale part of the mind kicks in and the lust diminishes. It becomes a job. Whereas with a non looker you have a free path to do all pervers stuff which additionally increases lust. You know and feel that you are the master, the man in charge.

[Nomad77]

A bit off topic but yes, this is true in general but I've had some good looking girls that were really good in bed too. A lot of girls can become good with a little bit of training.

[Days of Broken Arrows]

You've just hit on something.

The main reason these nice-looking careerist women don't have men running after them isn't because men are "intimidated." It's because men aren't turned on.

They look like little picture-perfect replicas of actual women with all the sex appeal rung out of them. They're freeze-dried women as opposed to natural ones.

Very few men get turned on by a corporate robot who e-nun-c-i-ates every word perfectly, has neurotically tailored clothes, and walks like a tin soldier. Especially when she looks really good, because it's disconcerting to have a woman look good but not turn you on. Something is missing.

But the woman who works in the supermarket with the crooked teeth and great ass? Or the receptionist whose skirts ride up a bit too high? Well, they might not technically be as nice-looking. Hell, they might not be technically pretty. But they're insanely arousing.

This, IMO, is the real reason "men marry their secretaries not their equals at work," as women complain. The equals fail the boner test. The secretaries do not. Neither did those women at the bar you were with. Sex appeal is more than looks and brains. There is an X factor. You know it when you feel it.

[Bill]

Shure I meant in general. Still normally you have to be afraid that anouther guy will take her from you. That is specially painfull if you invested a lot in her. I friend talled me he found a hot girl who did not know how to dress and did not know how beautiful she was. So my friend teached her everything. Yes you guessed it she thought her worth was more and left him.

With a good looking girl power dynamics will probably be in her favor. Shure there can be exceptions.

You can get easily jelous which is not a good thing.

[Nomad77]

Yes, this is true. Sex appeal has an invisible factor that directly related to just sex. She wasn't very beautiful but she wanted sex and obviously knew a thing or two about how to turn a man on. In general, I find this too be true, the girls I find most sexually attractive are not the most beautiful or perfect looking ones. Inherent in our sex appeal are our flaws that makes us real and human.

[Beyond Borders]

Ugly women (and fatties) are very aware of this and it's why they are often such whores - it's all they've got going for them.

Sometimes a woman you want nothing to do with starts fondling your balls under the bar or table or giving you a handjob in a car or something. Especially if you have a few drinks in you, chances are she'll get you horny and you'll bang her.

Or there's the nuke maneuver where they just drop to their knees, unzip your pants, and start blowing you. What guy is going to say no to that?

It's a little trickier to arouse a woman that isn't attracted to you, but I think it can be done. But for a guy, such a scenario is often a go - that's why guys always say that they wouldn't normally bang a certain girl but if she fell back with her legs open, and no one is around, he would.

These women are just exploiting our nature and it works very well.

[Nomad77]

True, I think this would work more easily on men than women but I think if a woman allowed it, for whatever reason, it could work on her too. I use to do this a lot when I was young and got all kinds of girls excited and in sexual situations with me that probably wouldn't have otherwise done anything with me.

So the points being made seems to:

1. The women we find most sexually appealing are not the ones we find most attractive and beautiful.
2. The less attractive women know they are less attractive and thus work on their sex appeal. I think Brazilians are good example of this.
3. If you can get a woman sexually aroused you have a chance of banging her even if she's not attracted to you.

[Bill]

Yes, true.

At nr. 3 again the problem might be that you bring her on fire but another good looking player may take her. Or her plan is to come together with another guy but you get the job to make the pre work to arouse her.

I think that´s how Casanova did it. He knew all tricks to get them aroused. Touching and erotic storytelling are some important tools. Women like erotic stories.

I remember with my ex when I did anal she normally never get´s to orgasm. I told her some stories where she is a 3 hole slut who fucks with 3 men etc. that made her come. Problem with story telling is it it´s not easy. You have to put some time in it. But somehow you have to be better than the rivals.

Making guys aroused is the stripper game. That´s how they get serious money without even fucking.

[True Killa]

This sounds like females using game to have sex with guys they are otherwise not qualified for. Guys should take note.

[Bill]

I think there is already some websites for dykes practicing game. But maybe we will see some fat game sites where fat chicks talk about gaming dudes.

Like 5 ways you can make him a boner in spite being disgustingly fat and ugly.
15 reasons why light is your enemy. Embrace the darkness.

[Nomad77]

Women are already gaming us and this will only get worse as they will get better. You would think this would be good news for most men but the men they seem to game the most are the Alpha men not the regular guys. As always, women compete for the top dogs.

[Bill]

Yes probably though some little good things can be gained from. In Germany there is a saying you learn to drive a bicycle best with the older ones. I think like older guys with game can teach a lot to young girls same can happen to young men. Also normal guys can have something from it. Making love is an art. Think of Geishas who behave so that men feel comfortable. I think they had also a lot of different tools to make men happy.

Older women can help as wing women. Organize some orgies and other nasty stuff. She can help to arouse the young chick etc...

There was this phone sex chics in the Christian Podcast. Boy she knew what she was doing. We don´t know how she was looking but she had some great phone game. I was amazed. I tried to find something similar at literotica. They have some audio stories there too but didn´t find somehing in that level. It reminded me of Sasha Grey who had goold dirty talk game. I think game for women is necessary if one aims higher.