[Lufty]

I was wondering what people here thought of some of the voices that you come across in the RoK comments section? Particularity interested in if some other long term readers have noticed a shift towards extreme right viewpoints by a lot of the posters there?

It seems to me as the site has become more popular a lot more people with those kinds of viewpoints have started cropping up. Do you guys think there has been a shift of the Red Pill world to the right (although these forums have largely stayed the same) or do you think that these posters are trolls/ the sort of people that have been looking for a more mainstream "home" on the internet and have found RoK to be tolerant of their presence?

[soup]

There's definitely people out there who want to claim redpill for the right.

But the problem with that is there are guys who are redpill who don't blame the liberals for most of the worlds problems and actually lean more left.

[Glaucon]

ROK comment section is quite bad nowdays, it is a pain to read usually. Too bad.

I hope they never find this place.

[Matt Forney]

Forney's Law of Internet Discussions: the popularity of a site is inversely correlated with the quality of the people who comment on its articles.

Dead serious.

This is not an attack on Roosh or RoK: Roosh is doing God's work as far as I'm concerned. But any site that moves past a critical mass of popularity will inevitably attract losers, weirdos and idiots for a number of reasons:

1. Most human beings are morons, so any site that becomes popular will inevitably acquire a readership that is more representative of the general population. Compare RoK's comments to the comments on Roosh's personal blog: the latter is less popular but the comments are typically more intelligent and insightful on average.

2. Too many commenters. Comment threads on RoK typically reach into the hundreds, even more with articles that go viral. That's too many people for Roosh and company to moderate in anything more than a loose fashion without sacrificing their valuable time. I know this from experience: when I made my old site In Mala Fide into a multi-user blog, comment activity doubled, making it near impossible for me to keep up with the flow. On my current blog, I deliberately restrict the number of comments in various ways (requiring commenters to log in to their WordPress accounts, mocking/censoring haters etc.).

3. Bad money drives out good. Because the losers and weirdos are more invested in their bogus online personas, they will spend more time commenting and attacking the normal people. Eventually, the cool guys will realize that debating with wackjobs is a waste of their time and depart, leaving behind the freaks.

4. Kids these days are pussies. Whereas five years ago, you could write controversial articles without much of a fuss, nowadays girls are so hypersensitive due to liberal/feminist upbringings that even the slightest non-left viewpoint sends them into a frothing rage. Hell, as recently as three years ago, articles like Tuthmosis' stuff on eating disorders and short-haired girls wouldn't have gotten nearly the response they did.

5. Social media. Pre-Twitter/Facebook, you had to specifically seek out articles like the kinds RoK publishes if you were interested in them. Now, every Prozac-popping Tumblrina can alert her friends to what a MISOGYNISTIC ASSHOLE you are in mere seconds.

6. No barrier to entry. Pretty much anyone can comment on a site like RoK, so idiots and morons will take advantage of that. Compare RoK to this forum; the discourse level is much higher here because participation is severely restricted and violators swiftly punished.

Again, no disrespect to Roosh; running a site like RoK is tons of work. But this is what happens to any website that becomes popular. Short of hiring paid moderators to enforce a strict ban regimen (something only the most popular sites, like Gawker Media, can afford to do), I don't see a solution.

[KorbenDallas]

Comments like Lufty's amuse and interest me. It's a comment that whether he is aware of it or not, is indicative of someone who's been indoctrinated.

Ron Paul and his son are labeled "extreme" and "ultra-right wing". Many posters on here seem to generally come from the same field of thinking as Ron and his son, (Austrian economics, non-interventionist foreign policy) so, I'm assuming you are labeling posters who share these politics as extreme and not talking about NAZI's, who, I would argue fall more under "leftism" for their belief in a large welfare and warfare state, not to mention anti-semitism.

The Paul's politics are a blend of Jeffersonian and Washington's politics. So it is concerning to me that my country has abandoned its principles so fully as to actively denigrate its founding ethos by regarding its enthusiasts as extremists.

On second thought after re-reading your comment I noticed you wrote, "ROK comments" not forum posters. Yea, I'm with you there. I've read through some of those comment sections and won't do it again. I thought I get too angry sometimes! It's not even the anger, there are NAZI's, extremely bitter divorces (not saying I don't feel for them...) among other people just fuming.

[Glaucon]

(05-03-2014 05:11 PM)Matt Forney Wrote:  

Short of hiring paid moderators to enforce a strict ban regimen (something only the most popular sites, like Gawker Media, can afford to do), I don't see a solution.

Sometimes I think deleting the whole comment feature would be the solution.

There are gems there, but it is a real pain to find. The stupidity of people is just astonishing.

[Roosh]

Quote:

Sometimes I think deleting the whole comment feature would be the solution.

And what effect did that have on the popular web sites you run?

[TonySandos]

Korben lol golden response

[runsonmagic]

It's very interesting which articles get comments and which don't.

As I discussed in my article this week, posts which make people angry get more comments and views. Unfortunately, most writers online are paid based on attention, so when readers give their attention through comments and pageviews to negative stories, they encourage writers and editors to create more negative stories.

If you want to change this, ignore articles which make you upset, and leave a comment on articles you genuinely enjoy, even if it's just something as simple as "great article! I really enjoyed reading it!"

Speaking of which, did you know I wrote an article this week on maintaining on positive energy even when you see negativity in the world? It has 350 less comments than last weeks article on childhood trauma.

[Vitriol]

(05-03-2014 04:44 PM)soup Wrote:  

There's definitely people out there who want to claim redpill for the right.

But the problem with that is there are guys who are redpill who don't blame the liberals for most of the worlds problems and actually lean more left.

I'm not sure why there's so much pro-Christian, anti-Abortion, pro-Republican, pro-free market, etc. talk in the Manosphere. Platitudes of the mainstream right in American politics are fairly common and they're not going to change anything.

I realize traditional societies are better for raising families and having stable marriages, but trying to be an extreme right winger and attempting to make those ideals work in contemporary American society is obviously a fool's endeavor. The environment we live in just doesn't allow it.

(05-03-2014 05:11 PM)Matt Forney Wrote:  

Because the losers and weirdos are more invested in their bogus online personas, they will spend more time commenting and attacking the normal people. Eventually, the cool guys will realize that debating with wackjobs is a waste of their time and depart, leaving behind the freaks.

I've seen a lot of this in the past couple of years, and it isn't just on ROK. There are plenty of losers who "live on the internet" and develop very dysfunctional mentalities. They've also been given platforms to speak on and internet clubhouses to hang out in where they can reinforce each other's dysfunction.

[KorbenDallas]

Vitriol, do you think the Constitution is an "extreme right-wing" document? How about the Declaration of Independence? That could come straight from a Tea Party website! Gosh, don't those people realize that stuff could never work in a modern environment? I mean, don't those Tea Partiers realize its better to pay exorbitant taxes and engage in perpetual war at the same time not enforcing the border!

[Vitriol]

(05-03-2014 05:57 PM)KorbenDallas Wrote:  

Vitriol, do you think the Constitution is an "extreme right-wing" document?

It's irrelevant at this point, as the people calling all the shots in the U.S. stopped caring about what is written in the Constitution. For example, the NSA scandal basically made the Fourth Amendment irrelevant. People are getting arrested for things they say on the internet, even though the First Amendment is never supposed to place restrictions on the content of what people say (based on Supreme Court cases).

We're basically at the point where the constitution has become a "feel good" document for everyone to learn about how free we're supposed to be, but in practice our freedoms are much more restricted. I really don't see how voting for Romney instead of Obama would've changed any of this.

[BLarsen]

Logic, reason and facts are valued here on RVF and enforced by tight moderation. I imagine RVF would be EXACTLY like the ROK comments section without the explicit "be beta on the forum" rule.

I stopped reading the comments section for precisely this reason.

[xpatplayer]

Danger and Play recently tweeted about this https://twitter.com/PlayDangerously/stat...882207233/

I agree with him completely. When you write about game, your audience will be mostly composed of losers who couldn't even fuck a prostitute if she was already paid for and on their bed. Look at all the spergs who go to PUA seminars. When RoK writes about game, it is meant to be read by the average forum member. The comments, however, show that it is mostly bitter men who are genuinely misogynistic. While I treat women like children, these guys legitimately hate women.

Same can be said for articles about women. Whenever RoK posts observations about women, the average forum member thinks "Hmm, that's true. I can definitely see it in my fuckbuddies." and then goes back to his more or less regular, pussy-juice filled life. When the losers read it, they think "Fuck women, they're all bitches. Grrr... gonna go back home and angrily jerk off to tube-porn for an hour" (nb- I have nothing against tube porn. I enjoy watching it whenever I'm taking a break from the game)

My point is that RoK is a great website with great content that should continue putting out good content. The only problem is that most of the guys commenting on the articles and upvoting the most negative comments are too negative.

Edit

Quote:

But the problem with that is there are guys who are redpill who don't blame the liberals for most of the worlds problems and actually lean more left.

Agree, too many of the commenters are firmly in the matrix and this can be seen by their support of far-right ultranationalist movements that seek only to come to power by marginalizing minorities. If you can't tell that a movement is using you, you are firmly plugged in. Personally, I would vote for the Democrats if they changed their tax policy and stopped supporting radical-feminist ideas.

[KorbenDallas]

Never said I supported Romney...Wasn't talking about politicians. I've never been a "team red" guy. Always saw through politicians bs. I was curious about your personal opinion concerning the Declaration of Independence and the constitution. Do you think those are extreme right documents?

[KorbenDallas]

xpatplayer,
Good points. What's concerning is that there are more sexual losers now than there used to be. In the sixties, if there wasn't something glaringly wrong with you, you were able to land a decent woman. Now, much fewer people are getting married, much fewer people are having 1960's style marriages, and much fewer men are getting laid. That's one reason I won't bring a chick from europe back. The thirst in the US, combined with the divorce complex, is truly a force to be reckoned with.

I've met guys who could care less about all the other guys in society as long as their getting their's. I care about myself first, but I would rather live in a society where it is normal and natural for most guys to have a sex life. It creates a proper balance when sex roles are in accordance with nature.

[WD-40]

(05-03-2014 04:19 PM)Lufty Wrote:  

I was wondering what people here thought of some of the voices that you come across in the RoK comments section? Particularity interested in if some other long term readers have noticed a shift towards extreme right viewpoints by a lot of the posters there?

Well, I think part of it is just the Jezebel false flag trolls trying to tar the RoK readership as rubes by planting anti-Semitic and racist comments. And part of of it is of course that there are probably real extreme right wingers trying to co-opt Red Pill.

However, I, for one, am a left liberal and usually do not feel like I am in the wrong place reading RoK. The content has and will continue to appeal to a much broader and more diverse group of readers and contributors, it simply isn't as cut and dried as most red pill critics would like to have it. The problem is that by now, even people like me who took college classes on Marxism and feminism and enjoyed them are just plain sick of all the shenanigans. That's how far it's come.

[xpatplayer]

(05-03-2014 06:49 PM)KorbenDallas Wrote:  

xpatplayer,
Good points. What's concerning is that there are more sexual losers now than there used to be. In the sixties, if there wasn't something glaringly wrong with you, you were able to land a decent woman. Now, much fewer people are getting married, much fewer people are having 1960's style marriages, and much fewer men are getting laid. That's one reason I won't bring a chick from europe back. The thirst in the US, combined with the divorce complex, is truly a force to be reckoned with.

I've met guys who could care less about all the other guys in society as long as their getting their's. I care about myself first, but I would rather live in a society where it is normal and natural for most guys to have a sex life. It creates a proper balance when sex roles are in accordance with nature.

Thing is you could either sit back home and complain or you could go out and live. Earlier, you had these types but they would end up 'manning up' and doing stuff.

Now, you have video games, porn and dating websites. So men fulfill their desires for adventure and sexual stimulation while women fulfill their desire for male attention.

Unfortunately, a lot of men get frustrated because they can't get real sex and live real lives while women have exorbitant expectations of men and end up divorcing them.

I used to get angry at this system, but then I realized that was what losers and spurned women did. Instead, I started looking for ways to exploit the system. Remember, you are not doing anything morally wrong when you are exploiting an immoral system.

[Sawyer]

(05-03-2014 08:25 PM)xpatplayer Wrote:  

(05-03-2014 06:49 PM)KorbenDallas Wrote:  

xpatplayer,
Good points. What's concerning is that there are more sexual losers now than there used to be. In the sixties, if there wasn't something glaringly wrong with you, you were able to land a decent woman. Now, much fewer people are getting married, much fewer people are having 1960's style marriages, and much fewer men are getting laid. That's one reason I won't bring a chick from europe back. The thirst in the US, combined with the divorce complex, is truly a force to be reckoned with.

I've met guys who could care less about all the other guys in society as long as their getting their's. I care about myself first, but I would rather live in a society where it is normal and natural for most guys to have a sex life. It creates a proper balance when sex roles are in accordance with nature.

Thing is you could either sit back home and complain or you could go out and live. Earlier, you had these types but they would end up 'manning up' and doing stuff.

Now, you have video games, porn and dating websites. So men fulfill their desires for adventure and sexual stimulation while women fulfill their desire for male attention.

Unfortunately, a lot of men get frustrated because they can't get real sex and live real lives while women have exorbitant expectations of men and end up divorcing them.

I used to get angry at this system, but then I realized that was what losers and spurned women did. Instead, I started looking for ways to exploit the system. Remember, you are not doing anything morally wrong when you are exploiting an immoral system.

Great comment. Men have been trained to find satisfaction where there is none.

Though I'd still contend there can be room for anger at the system, there will never be satisfaction from that anger. There will be satisfaction from making ourselves happy by focusing on ourselves.

But for many if not most men, myself included, that initial satisfaction comes from voicing unpopular political opinions, most of which now concern social conservatism -- the ultimate taboo and hated subject of our day.

Personally I love the passionate right wing. That's just the stuff I never hear or see from most people -- it's the shit that can get you ostracized, fired and ruined. I never tire of reading it. But I also now see it as part of a process. It's important to get it out. It may take years or it may take days, but you've got to go through it to realize it didn't really change anything.

Focusing on and building yourself, that's what changes things. Those who stick around long enough will come to understand that, regardless of their initial political excesses.

People change things. Ideas don't change jack shit.

[Basil Ransom]

I had an idea of enticing commenters to get permanent logins, and then banning the low quality ones. Traffic might take a hit initially, but it would go towards building a better community in the long term perhaps. This place would be a madhouse without it.

I looked at another, similar forum, Good Looking Loser, for a bit. I like the site's ethos, but the loose moderation with low standards means there are a lot of dumbfucks running through it.

[Deluge]

I stopped reading ROK comments, but I noticed they had a lot more older divorced dudes than the forum did, not to mention a lot of white nationalists who came to ROK from Stormfront and associated blogs via heartiste who read for ROK's cultural critique's and seemed to rarely comment on the self-improvement posts.

And RVF posters are undoubtedly much much more liberal than ROK's would be.

[Yatagan]

I tend to find the ROK comments more entertaining than the articles.

[Switch]

I saw a comment recently on the Donald Sterling article saying, "That moment when RoK readers don't know whether to applaud Donald Sterling because he hates blacks or hate him because he's a Jew." It had 100 upvotes or something. I think that a lot of blue pillers reading the site and slowly being converted to red pill as the writers keep dropping truth and advice.

But there should be some sort of login required to post comments. Jezebel assholes are running crazy with the trolling.

[Kingsley Davis]

The excellent Lance Christopher consistently kills it in the comments. He'd compliment RVF with his contributions.

[Andy_B]

Here's my take:

Any site that gets popular enough for opposing political correctness will inevitably attract a large number of traditional right wingers.

Why?

I think there are two basic reasons:

1. Left wing is increasingly the new "centrist" as far as most people are concerned. Unless you live deep in the bible belt, you can't say anything conservative in public without the VAST majority of people vehemently disagreeing with you. This naturally leads to conservatives flocking toward ANY place that won't immediately shout down their views... Even if that place is was not entirely right wing in conception.

2. Political correctness these days IS largely a left wing phenomenon. There is no "right wing PC" like there used to be because right wingers aren't powerful enough to enforce taboos anymore. So if you oppose PC these days there's like a 70% chance you're somewhat right-leaning.

You can see this really clearly on boards like 4chan's /pol/. It used to just be a mix of libertarians and people who found PC leftists annoying, but now it's basically Stormfront's image board.