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Abortion Debate: Lawrence Lockman makes more sense than virtually everyone woman
04-01-2014, 03:46 PM
Wow just wow. What an interesting view. I never actually thought about it in that sense. Not saying forcing yourself is the way to do it, but it makes you think.
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Abortion Debate: Lawrence Lockman makes more sense than virtually everyone woman
04-01-2014, 03:49 PM
That is a new one on me.
I don't think it makes sense though since it ducks the issue of whether or not an unborn baby has the same human rights as a living person.
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Abortion Debate: Lawrence Lockman makes more sense than virtually everyone woman
04-01-2014, 04:18 PM
I'm pro-choice. I guess that makes me a beta orbiter. Oh well.
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Abortion Debate: Lawrence Lockman makes more sense than virtually everyone woman
04-01-2014, 04:57 PM
He's stupid for saying something like that, even if it was years and years ago, but I can see the point that he is trying to make. If you believe that a fetus with a beating heart is a human being, how is abortion any better than rape? It is just a case of a more powerful person taking advantage of a less powerful person.
Personally, I'm pro-choice as well. I believe that women should have the right to not engage in activities that have a chance of creating life, just like I believe that men should have that choice as well.
I believe that men and women should be obligated to participate in caring for life that they helped create whether they intended to or not.
I don't believe that men should pay money into the pocket of any woman that they knock up. I believe that any child support provided must be used to purchase items for the child in question with receipts to back it up.
Legally speaking, I'm not in favour of a total ban on a woman's decision to carry a child to term, as that would set a bad constitutional precedent in my opinion, but once the fetus in a viable being, I think anything that harms its health should be considered a crime, unless it is a question of the comparative health of the mother. Of course, this only happens 99.9999% of the time.
As a member of the male side of the species, I can see how it would be convenient for a woman you accidentally knocked up to choose an abortion.
It is a complicated debate and there are already some great threads on the topic. The Facebook discussion that I posted above is here simply to illustrate the inane dedication to the "abortion is always the woman's prerogative" movement.
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Abortion Debate: Lawrence Lockman makes more sense than virtually everyone woman
04-01-2014, 05:26 PM
There are thousands of couples and individuals who cannot conceive and want to adopt. Every organism wants to live, well mostly everybody without any mental disorders want to live. How can somebody have the courage to kill an innocent person? A baby will not harm you, why kill it? Give it out for adoption. Maybe you can make some money if you are interested in that. Reading stories of women who've had abortions mostly come to the conclusion that they mostly regret it. Pro choice NO, it's another human being killing another. Who has the voice to speak for the unborn child? Anyways, it's my opinion. Everybody has their own point of view.
As for the thread, well I get his point, he could've used a less sensitive comparison to make his point.
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Abortion Debate: Lawrence Lockman makes more sense than virtually everyone woman
04-01-2014, 06:55 PM
Beta orbiter here as well ..
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Abortion Debate: Lawrence Lockman makes more sense than virtually everyone woman
04-01-2014, 06:59 PM
It's because the fetus is part of the woman's body, and hence "hers." At least as defined by law. When you rape, you're invading another body. Same goes for when you kill a woman's fetus. She can kill it, but you can't, by law.
A better moral question to pose would be: If a woman has a right to an abortion, why can't a conjoined twin kill his or her attached twin?
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Abortion Debate: Lawrence Lockman makes more sense than virtually everyone woman
04-01-2014, 07:06 PM
I don't get into whether abortion is spiritually right or wrong. When I get into it with a pro-abortion woman I tell her I don't give a crap if she wants to have ten abortions, bring them home and roll around with them in her basement. I don't care if she wants to have a "black market" provider clinic. If I were a prosecutor and I wasn't getting outraged community members demanding I shut it down I would use my discretion and turn the other way.
But Constitutional abortion has fucked with the commons in a way that it was nothing less than the beginning of the end of the USA.
Constitutional abortion has been a disaster.
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Abortion Debate: Lawrence Lockman makes more sense than virtually everyone woman
04-01-2014, 08:44 PM
I'd rather pay for an abortion than pay child support.
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Abortion Debate: Lawrence Lockman makes more sense than virtually everyone woman
04-01-2014, 08:50 PM
Would you sacrifice a republic on the altar of license?
Right now, today. Would you do it?
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Abortion Debate: Lawrence Lockman makes more sense than virtually everyone woman
04-01-2014, 09:07 PM
Quote: (04-01-2014 09:04 PM)j r Wrote:
Quote: (04-01-2014 08:50 PM)Sawyer Wrote:
Would you sacrifice a republic on the altar of license?
Right now, today. Would you do it?
What the fuck are you talking about?
So that's one "yes."
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Abortion Debate: Lawrence Lockman makes more sense than virtually everyone woman
04-01-2014, 09:22 PM
I'm pro-life until men have the right to opt out of child support payments. It's your body, it's our wallets.
Put in a broader context, abortion is partially responsible for the breakdown of the nuclear family by allowing women to avoid commitment and responsibility. This drives promiscuous behavior and poor reproductive decision making, while framing men as sperm donors rather than potential fathers (as if feminism itself hasn't done this enough already)
I'm hoping someone here can clarify how it's possible to be both a red pill traditionalist and pro-choice advocate at the same time.
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Abortion Debate: Lawrence Lockman makes more sense than virtually everyone woman
04-01-2014, 09:30 PM
Who said anything about being a red pill traditionalist? I'm one of the guys who came to this board to talk about travel and chasing tail. I don't really buy into all this decline of western civilization stuff.
Also, being red pill and being a traditionalist are two different things.
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Abortion Debate: Lawrence Lockman makes more sense than virtually everyone woman
04-01-2014, 11:57 PM
There is no denying that banning abortion would lead to a more traditional society.
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Abortion Debate: Lawrence Lockman makes more sense than virtually everyone woman
04-02-2014, 12:08 AM
Personally for me I'm morally opposed to abortion. I say personally, but I don't mean to say 'hey I'm against abortion, but it's okay for other people to go and abort', it is definitely not okay. Literally the only potential benefit of abortion is that it could be removing criminals and other drains on society from existence before they have the chance to grow up
I also think it's fairly humorous that while leftists often pride themselves on being 'progressive' and 'modern' and a step forward from 'the dark ages' or however they'd like to pejoratively refer to older times, abortion is one of the most obvious throwbacks to long forgotten barbaric practices from the actual dark ages.