[JJ Roberts]

First of all I should say that I don't play online poker for money.

I have friends who do this and claim to make a "living" from it but personally not only do I not enjoy as much as real life games due to the lack of social interaction but the players that you find in casinos are typically much worse than online players.

I have travelled the world extensively and I come across several countries where any decent poker player could rent an apartment, live and never have to pay rent themselves but could get the local poker players to pay their rent by playing maybe just a couple of nights a week.

In some cases, just once or twice a month.

Argentina
=======
If you live in BsAs, unfortunately there are no casinos there but you are a quick boat ride away from Uruguay.

Punte Del Este is full of Argentinans who have second / holiday homes.

Most of them are rich and corrupt dudes in their 50s an 60s who have moved their money offshore. You will find them at the poker tables at the Conrad casino.

Example session - sat down there will the minimum buy in which was about $300 and there was once such guy at the table who literally played EVERY SINGLE HAND HE WAS DEALT for 4 hours straight regardless of the amount of the pre-flop raise.

Just by isolating and getting heads up with this guy I was able to cash out for about $1,300 a couple of hours later.

Note : This place also attracts quite a lot of young Brazilian players whose play is considerably better. Stay away from them and try and isolate the older Argentinian players.

If you don't want to leave Argentina, go to the Central Casino in Mar Del Plata. It has quite possibly the worst poker players I have ever played against in my entire life.

Mexico
=====
Not sure about the scene in the capital but in Guadalajara there is occasionally a poker game at the casino in the Majestic casino in Plaza Del Sol.

It's fairly new there though so call ahead to see if they have a table going.

A more established game is at the Two Lions casino on Av.Mexico. They have 2 or 3 tables going every single night of the week and sometimes there is a waiting list. Blinds are 25-50 pesos at both casinos (about $1.80 - $3.75) and despite the fact that I always buy in for a small amount - $1,000 pesos which is $75 - a typical nights play of only 3 or 4 hours usually results in a profit of 4,000 or 5,000 pesos.

To put that in perspective. It's only 2,000 pesos per month to rent a room in a shared flat for an entire month here and only about 6,000 pesos per month to rent your own apartment. A month's rent earned in one evening is easily do-able.

I have never had a single losing session at either casino despite the usual bad beats / card dead evenings that all poker players sometimes get. The worst I ever did was break even or a small profit - enough to pay for taxi there and back and a few beers.

The players in GDL are truly awful thankfully.

Sofia, Bulgaria
==========
Bulgaria is the poorest (and subsequently one of the cheapest) countries in the whole of europe.

Why? Because the entire country is run by the mafia up to and including the president of the country.

The casino attached to the Raddison hotel at 4, Narodno Sabranie Square is where you can go to relieve them of their ill gotten gains (I believe there are also some other games at some of the other casinos) :

http://www.sofia-guide.com/biz/nightlife/casinos/

I lived here for 4 months and did not (directly) have to pay the rent on my apartment once.

Odessa, Ukraine
============
Was only here for 4 days but there is a good poker room / casino on the main pedestrian street right in the centre of town. You need to take a lift up to the 2nd or 3rd floor but they have texas hold em cash games running constantly even during the day.

Players did not seem as bad as argentina or mexico but did not seem that good either. Seems quite possible to live there for free. Might try in future.

Anybody else get any decent data sheets on other such places in the world?

[Ubietza]

Great data.

[Parlay44]

It's one of my dreams to be a professional gambler. I used to go to Atlantic City 3 nights a week.
I would make anywhere from $300-$1000 a night playing blackjack and craps. I loved it.

I never really got into poker but I think I should. It makes more sense to play against a player then
against the strict odds of the other casino games which at best are slightly less than 50/50.

I like how you hop around other countries to gamble. I'd be a little worried of the criminal element
of any of those countries you mentioned. How do you get out with your winnings without getting jacked?

I researched apartments in Atlantic City a few times. You can get a 1 bedroom for about $500 a month.
2 bedroom for like $700-$800. And these are in a high rise complex with assigned indoor parking.
It's really not too bad if you frequent AC. A hotel room on a weekend will cost you like $200-$400
for the night.

[CaliforniaSupreme]

I'd hate to get wrapped up in pro gambling, I have a feeling that a ton of shit would stem from it. Gambling is a dark business, I could never do it without affecting my conscience.

[expectation]

Atlantic City is on life support now. If you wanna get into poker, you gotta go to Maryland Live! The queue for 1-2 NL HE was 120 people during Christmas Break. Games were very soft.

[JJ Roberts]

Yeah I should have mentioned that I NEVER EVER play house games when I go into a casino.

No roulette, no craps, no blackjack for me.

Only poker and no I don't mean any form of poker slot machine or form of poker (like Caribbean stud poker) that involves you playing against the house

I stick strictly and 100% to poker where you winning or not winning involves you playing and taking money off other players at the table and where the house makes money by taking a percent which is typically 5% of each pot with a cap set at a certain amount

This tends to mean playing no-limit texas hold'em everywhere I go. I know and enjoy lots of forms of poker like omaha high low but texas is usually the only thing that is offered at small casinos so that's what I play

[Afarang]

I have done it in for about 1.2 years, playing online poker outside my home country and I have played online poker on and off for about 5 years. I also have around 30+ friends who play for a living outside there home country making VERY GOOD money. I interviewed a poker player in Thailand a few weeks back on my blog too.


Vietnam have good poker games for making money, not sure the name of the casino though. I have heard some okay things about Naga world in Cambodia too.

[Ricardinho]

(01-20-2014 04:47 PM)JJ Roberts Wrote:  

First of all I should say that I don't play online poker for money.

I have friends who do this and claim to make a "living" from it but personally not only do I not enjoy as much as real life games due to the lack of social interaction but the players that you find in casinos are typically much worse than online players.

I have travelled the world extensively and I come across several countries where any decent poker player could rent an apartment, live and never have to pay rent themselves but could get the local poker players to pay their rent by playing maybe just a couple of nights a week.

In some cases, just once or twice a month.

Argentina
=======
If you live in BsAs, unfortunately there are no casinos there but you are a quick boat ride away from Uruguay.

Punte Del Este is full of Argentinans who have second / holiday homes.

Most of them are rich and corrupt dudes in their 50s an 60s who have moved their money offshore. You will find them at the poker tables at the Conrad casino.

Example session - sat down there will the minimum buy in which was about $300 and there was once such guy at the table who literally played EVERY SINGLE HAND HE WAS DEALT for 4 hours straight regardless of the amount of the pre-flop raise.

Just by isolating and getting heads up with this guy I was able to cash out for about $1,300 a couple of hours later.

Note : This place also attracts quite a lot of young Brazilian players whose play is considerably better. Stay away from them and try and isolate the older Argentinian players.

If you don't want to leave Argentina, go to the Central Casino in Mar Del Plata. It has quite possibly the worst poker players I have ever played against in my entire life.

Mexico
=====
Not sure about the scene in the capital but in Guadalajara there is occasionally a poker game at the casino in the Majestic casino in Plaza Del Sol.

It's fairly new there though so call ahead to see if they have a table going.

A more established game is at the Two Lions casino on Av.Mexico. They have 2 or 3 tables going every single night of the week and sometimes there is a waiting list. Blinds are 25-50 pesos at both casinos (about $1.80 - $3.75) and despite the fact that I always buy in for a small amount - $1,000 pesos which is $75 - a typical nights play of only 3 or 4 hours usually results in a profit of 4,000 or 5,000 pesos.

To put that in perspective. It's only 2,000 pesos per month to rent a room in a shared flat for an entire month here and only about 6,000 pesos per month to rent your own apartment. A month's rent earned in one evening is easily do-able.

I have never had a single losing session at either casino despite the usual bad beats / card dead evenings that all poker players sometimes get. The worst I ever did was break even or a small profit - enough to pay for taxi there and back and a few beers.

The players in GDL are truly awful thankfully.

Sofia, Bulgaria
==========
Bulgaria is the poorest (and subsequently one of the cheapest) countries in the whole of europe.

Why? Because the entire country is run by the mafia up to and including the president of the country.

The casino attached to the Raddison hotel at 4, Narodno Sabranie Square is where you can go to relieve them of their ill gotten gains (I believe there are also some other games at some of the other casinos) :

http://www.sofia-guide.com/biz/nightlife/casinos/

I lived here for 4 months and did not (directly) have to pay the rent on my apartment once.

Odessa, Ukraine
============
Was only here for 4 days but there is a good poker room / casino on the main pedestrian street right in the centre of town. You need to take a lift up to the 2nd or 3rd floor but they have texas hold em cash games running constantly even during the day.

Players did not seem as bad as argentina or mexico but did not seem that good either. Seems quite possible to live there for free. Might try in future.

Anybody else get any decent data sheets on other such places in the world?

Great data sheet man.

If you don't feel like going to Uruguay & are near Mendoza or San Juan, cross the border & there's casinos waiting for you in every city.

The players all lack experience & poker still hasn't hit it's stride. I'd recommend you come here for easy money & classy casinos,

[JJ Roberts]

You mean to Chile?

Have been to Chile a few times but never played poker there.

[Ricardinho]

(01-20-2014 11:07 PM)JJ Roberts Wrote:  

You mean to Chile?

Have been to Chile a few times but never played poker there.

Yes, in Santiago casino's are illegal, Casino Enjoy is 30 minutes away from there.

Live music,clubs,shows, w/e. Enjoy is the huge casino chain here in Chile & they're solid compared to the ones in the U.S.

http://www.enjoypokerseries.cl/

Monticello in Rancagua is the big daddy here though, it's where most of the high rollers & celebrities go. Don't know abut the poker competition there though.

http://www.monticello.cl/casino/

[Christian McQueen]

Good data sheet with some interesting info.

+1 OP.

[Afarang]

Vegas also has a lot of fish from what my poker player friends tell me ( I have hundreds of them). Best to go during the WSOP or when peak tourism seaons in LV.


When playing at a casino you should always see what the rake % is, some of them are ridiculously high some games are not very profitable to sit in. Almost every live casino will have fish and easy targets, London, Oz, USA and Europe. However I dont play live poker much, so I dont know too much about about the "live" situation . Hoping a few people can chime in.

[DirectDanger]

I used to make a living playing HU NLH online until black friday when the US government shut everything down. I got away from poker as it is not something I wanted to continue to do as my main source of income.

Now that I live here in Manila I go play poker about 3 or 4 times a month. There are several places to play but I stick to only 2 places.

Resorts World Manila and Solaire.

Resorts World - Has the most tables and players. Nice set up with a separate poker room that is non smoking. Games played are NLH 25/50 50/100 and on some nights you can find 1 table of 100/200 (45 pesos to 1 USD). You can also find the occasional mixed game or PLO.

Solaire - Just recently opened up. Only has 4 tables. Games are NLH 50/100 100/200 and at night you can find 200/400. I have heard some weekends you can find 500/1000 but I have never seen it. They have the occasional PLO game.

Something awesome is that you can buy in for 500 big blinds. Lots off people are buying in 200bbs+. Most people have no idea how to play deep stacked so you can crush these guys for some big pots.

The games are very beatable here. I paid last months rent 35,000 pesos just by playing a few sessions of NLH 50/100.

My biggest complaint is the games move so fucking slow. No shuffle machine. Asian players take ages to make decisions. But they are terrible so thats ok

[shibby]

For someone who has only played fuck around games of poker against his friends without knowing any real strategy, how much time do you think I would need to get to a 'competitive' skill level?

I'm not talking World Series shit or anything, just someone who could hit up the casino and be comfortable playing against experienced cats.

I've always enjoyed the game, but I'm a total rookie. This sounds fun though.

[Afarang]

to be among the average live pro, I would say about a year unless your naturally gifted. You would need to put in a lot of hours studying the game.

[shibby]

(01-21-2014 12:15 AM)Afarang Wrote:  

to be among the average live pro, I would say about a year unless your naturally gifted. You would need to put in a lot of hours studying the game.

What does 'studying the game' involve? I'm guessing reading books, practicing online, watch pro games..what else?

[Afarang]

(01-21-2014 12:24 AM)shibby Wrote:  

(01-21-2014 12:15 AM)Afarang Wrote:  

to be among the average live pro, I would say about a year unless your naturally gifted. You would need to put in a lot of hours studying the game.

What does 'studying the game' involve? I'm guessing reading books, practicing online, watch pro games..what else?

You need to learn the fundamentals and poker concepts, its not as easy as reading a few books and watching pro games. There is so much theory you need to know, then you have to apply that theory and understand it. . However once you know it, or rather levels of it, you should be able to beat live games pretty well.

[JJ Roberts]

With that, I am off to the casino now to pick up some $$$.

[shibby]

(01-21-2014 12:29 AM)Afarang Wrote:  

(01-21-2014 12:24 AM)shibby Wrote:  

(01-21-2014 12:15 AM)Afarang Wrote:  

to be among the average live pro, I would say about a year unless your naturally gifted. You would need to put in a lot of hours studying the game.

What does 'studying the game' involve? I'm guessing reading books, practicing online, watch pro games..what else?

You need to learn the fundamentals and poker concepts, its not as easy as reading a few books and watching pro games. There is so much theory you need to know, then you have to apply that theory and understand it. . However once you know it, or rather levels of it, you should be able to beat live games pretty well.

So the best way to learn this would be to....?

[Afarang]

(01-21-2014 01:06 AM)shibby Wrote:  

(01-21-2014 12:29 AM)Afarang Wrote:  

(01-21-2014 12:24 AM)shibby Wrote:  

(01-21-2014 12:15 AM)Afarang Wrote:  

to be among the average live pro, I would say about a year unless your naturally gifted. You would need to put in a lot of hours studying the game.

What does 'studying the game' involve? I'm guessing reading books, practicing online, watch pro games..what else?

You need to learn the fundamentals and poker concepts, its not as easy as reading a few books and watching pro games. There is so much theory you need to know, then you have to apply that theory and understand it. . However once you know it, or rather levels of it, you should be able to beat live games pretty well.

So the best way to learn this would be to....?

start a poker account. Pick a game, I would suggest NHLE/PLO as they are most popular game. Now pick if you want to play MTT/SNGs/cash games.

Next step is buy a poker book, I would suggest Ryan fee 6 max guide as its free PDF online, but it may be a bit advanced for people who are new to poker.

Join a poker study group/forum/find friends you can discuss hands with.

Buy either hold em manager or Poker Tracker as this both of these software are vital for speeding up the learning process of poker.

Start playing online and reading books and forums, even join poker coaching sites such as cardrunners/Duces cracked, which offer you umlimited videos from pros for a monthly fee.

apply theory you have learned from sources above and equip use them when you are playing online.

Start at the lowest game until you are making a profit them slowly move up.

keep doing this for 6 months to 1 year and if you are lucky you may be making money online. Games are the hardest they have ever been online.

Having said that live games are usually easier to beat, however they are very slow. They have a higher rake % then online, so some games are considered "unbeatable" because of rake, well that's what I hear on various poker forums. These games tend to have the better places and not the fish however.

the above is the gist of what you would want to do if you wanted to be serious at learning the game to make $$$.

[shibby]

Good rundown, thanks.

Sounds like a sweet scene to get into, especially for a traveler.

[Ardbeg]

Before anyone rushes out and quits his day job and moves to one of these countries, remember: playing poker is a job. I think anyone with above average patience and above average math skills can grind out a living playing poker, but it will be a grind. Occasionally you'll spend 6 hours playing poker and take home $5,000. But most days you'll spend 6 hours and take home $50. There will week stretches where you'll be negative. There will be huge swings.

I've flirted playing online poker as a means to supplement my income (back when it was legal in the U.S.), and after a while I completely bought into the saying about poker: it's a hard way to make an easy living.

[Silq]

I was an online professional poker player. Like every job, there is no guarantee. Black Friday happened and it became illegal in the US. I was forced to switch jobs and join the military or live abroad. 4 years later, today I am a full time student who travels during the summer and winter breaks playing online poker. The game is 10x harder and not as profitable but I can make a good amount of money relative to countries like Colombia, South-east Asian countries etc.

But.. I study this game a lot more than my college exams. This game is a lot harder than most recreational players think. Online players will eat you up alive. Fortunately, I have had coaches, mentors, put a lot of practice into this that I've played millions of hands and tens of thousands of tournaments.

Summary:
IT IS A JOB, IT'S NO LONGER FUN... but it gives FREEDOM

[Searcher]

(01-20-2014 04:47 PM)JJ Roberts Wrote:  

the minimum buy in which was about $300 and there was once such guy at the table who literally played EVERY SINGLE HAND HE WAS DEALT for 4 hours straight regardless of the amount of the pre-flop raise.

Just by isolating and getting heads up with this guy I was able to cash out for about $1,300 a couple of hours later.

Wow, you stacked this guy once per hour. Was this roughly $2-$5 no-limit hold'em? I would sit to his left and raise everyone out. Did you try big raises preflop? It seems like you could easily get him pot-committed and double-up with premium hands, or just use position with other hands.

Why don't local pros don't crowd these juicy opportunities out?

[JJ Roberts]

(01-21-2014 02:24 PM)Searcher Wrote:  

Wow, you stacked this guy once per hour. Was this roughly $2-$5 no-limit hold'em? I would sit to his left and raise everyone out. Did you try big raises preflop? It seems like you could easily get him pot-committed and double-up with premium hands, or just use position with other hands.

Why don't local pros don't crowd these juicy opportunities out?

Yeah I stacked him a few times. When I did he would just smile, reach into his pocket and pull out more money. It was quite clear that he didn't care at all when I stacked him and he just wanted to play cards. This was also the reason why we played every single hand he was dealt. He just wanted to play. He didn't care about money.

When I sat down I had the least amount of $$ of anyone on the table. When I finished I had more money on the table than everyone else combined.

The blinds were indeed $2-$5. All play at the casino was in US dollars despite being in Uruguay for some reason.

This is the casino here



As for your question about 'local pros'. There aren't any.

Houses in Punta Del Este are almost all owned by argies who have their second home there. Uruguayans mostly don't live there.