[rastignac]

A topic I am interested in getting some thought from the forum. (Couldn't find an existing topic on the forum, but plenty of evidence to back up my stance).

I am in my 40's and single. When in various LTR, I have seen highly destructive dynamics between me and my woman, provoked by my woman's boss. To initially bound the discussion, let's assume the boss is a man. He could be eligible or married, alpha or beta, attractive or not, charismatic or not. It does not seem to matter. The one thing they have is a clear formal power over your woman or "partner".

A boss will have a profound effect on her life, psychology and behavior: last minute business trips, working after hours, tension around performance and promotion. You will be in competition not only with her "career" (considered abstractly) but very directly with the will of another man for her priorities and attention. In many cases a boss will be spending more time than you with your woman. If you in any way see yourself in a "partnership" with your woman, you by extension are at the mercy of that individual, losing, by extension, a large amount of your own autonomy. (I think of Roosh's which man are you blog.)

In my life, this has played out at different times in having my women on the road (sales) more than half of their time (when that was never the plan), obsessed with pleasing their boss at the extension of caring for me and improving the quality of your time together.

Currently, I will not be involved with any woman who has a boss, with a significant formal obligation to another man. (I have never known a woman to have a female boss, as usually they avoided such a relationship). That rules out most western women. I was married. When things went to hell, her boss as a figure became a prominent part of her discussions, even though there was not a "sexual" relationship. It was his influence. Eventually his opinions about our relationship became part of the work discussion.  Therapists (for obvious reasons, I engaged in little of that) suggested that my position was sexist as it thwarted her career.

On the other hand, things have been better when I have been involved with a woman that either does not work or has a large degree of autonomy in the way they make money, either running their own business, consulting, or doing free lance work. With women who see those efforts as secondary to the goals of the family. A woman with client relations is more autonomous than a woman with a boss. I have found such women to be rare.

If I were young I would advise any young man to have nothing but a pump and dump relationship with formally employed women with male bosses. I can easily think of "5 reasons not to date a woman with a male boss".

This was my red pill moment. Is anything that exerts the primacy of the relationship between a man and woman (and better, a family) over that woman's relationship with corporate society sexist? It seems the winner here is corporations, the corporate mentality and the loser is families.

I am interested in any experiences or thoughts.

(Again apologies if this is a dupe).

[Thomas the Rhymer]

(11-22-2013 02:02 AM)rastignac Wrote:  

If I were young I would advise any young man to have nothing but a pump and dump relationship with formally employed women with male bosses. I can easily think of "5 reasons not to date a woman with a male boss".

That so needs to be written up as a ROK article.

[KorbenDallas]

Great post! Something I had never really thought about before, but it makes a lot of sense.

[K Galt]

5 reasons not to date a woman with a male boss

1. Hypergamy
2. Hypergamy
3. Hypergamy
4. Hypergamy
5. Hypergamy

Any questions?

[Mage]

I also don't view women with male bosses as LTR prospects.

The problem is even if a woman has a female boss, she may change jobs and she might get a male boss.

A man must have a very good game to persuade a woman to skip a good job offer because it includes male boss. The woman who would listen to that is very rare today.

Therefore it is better if a man can support his woman financially so that he doesn't have to work for other people and only work for him by cleaning and cooking for him. I know a few men who have their wives working under them at work as their secretaries or something else. Also seems to be good for relationship (although the man misses a chance to have a secretary lover). This is the natural order of things. But most man cannot afford it.

But then again, if a man is the sole provider for a family, he gets raped even harder in divorce court.

Today's life is so poisonous that there seems to be no fully effective personal answer to this systematic problem.

[Laner]

Good post. But.... damn.

Not sure what is going here. You guys are saying "dont date a woman with a male boss".

Dont date a woman with a female boss.

Students? Unemployed? Homeless? Where does it stop?

Date who you want. They are going to do what they are going to do anyway, unless you lock them down.

I dated a girl this summer who spent half her time sailing with her boss, and the other half golfing. Did he try and control her? Sure. Did she like him for it? Hell no.

She would rather have her face smashed into the mattress by me then have to dance for her boss. Just because a man has some corporate power has nothing to do with alpha. This chick gamed the shit out of him for trips to the Americas Cup and all sorts of other things.

I just laughed. Poor guy. Should be on this forum. Spoiling my girl for me and all.

[wolf]

This does not make sense.

Most women DO have male bosses. By this logic 97% of women are not LTR material.

Have I broken up with my gf because her boss got in the middle of my relationship? Yes I have.

Did she find out later he was lying through his teeth to get her pussy? Sure.

Let themselves find out their mistakes.

A woman always have some male support, whether it's her male boss, her daddy supporting her, the cops arresting you because she lied that you beat her, the judge, the welfare system and etc.

[funkyzeit]

You really think every boss is some rich alpha dude who spends weekdays being Don Draper and his weekends on his yacht banging female employees? Dude, 90% of them are too busy to do anything other than their job and do all their communication with low level workers through HR department or e-mails. The only personal communication is the usual "keep on good work", "how are you?" with a fake smile. Unless your woman is an outstanding hottie, most of them won't bother with gaming them, and even if they do they will probably be seen as desperate or frustrated with their wives, or simply as dudes who remind them of all that paper pushing.

Not saying there aren't alpha bosses (see one of the latest CH articles about corporate harem), but 95% of them are simply in a mix of tight schedule and "not shitting where they eat" principles. Relax.

[Benoit]

How many guys do you know who don't agree to do anything at work without checking with their wife/gf first? I guarantee it's plenty if you're employed in a corporate environment.

If your girl is agreeing to do stuff she knows will displease you, then why aren't you walking away immediately?

If you let her get away with it then it's your fault, her boss is not to blame.

[Courage Reborn]

Interesting post.

In my dating experience, women employed in female dominated fields (nursing, teaching, HR, PR, and more recently marketing) are more likely to have a female boss.

From what I've seen, the female boss creates just as much influence, power and motivation to please as a male boss. Some were inspiring mentors to my girl, while others power tripping task masters. Bottom line, it's the bosses expectations, not gender, that affects your girls work life.

The real problem here is feminism.

Thanks to feminism, supporting a family all but requires 2 good incomes now. Feminism shifted family power away from the patriarchy, and closer towards the employer or corporation.

So mad respect to those hustling to achieve Don Draper status. Having enough cash flow to keep your women(s) at home is alpha as fuck.

[j r]

The other alternative is to not try to control what your woman does, but simply respond to her actions. I firmly believe that most people do whatever they think that they can get away with in a relationship. If people respect each other, they don't let work get in the way of relationship. Ideally, you drop your work issues at the door with your briefcase.

If a woman is continually bringing her work drama home and it's ruining the relationship, just peace her out.

[The Beast1]

The solution to this problem is to satisfy hypergamy so you're higher status than her boss.

Work at a more prestiguous company, make more money, and the like.

My ex was a careerist. Made the mistake.

Just say this to them:

"It's ok, the career clock is ticking. It's not like you can have kids and a family anytime you want."

[Neo]

You make valid points. To some other posters, I don't think he's arguing the alpha or betaness of himself vs. the boss, just that another man has considerable control over his girlfriend and influence over the relationship. Also it's a set hierarchy and power dynamic, so even if the boss is the biggest beta in the world, the corporation makes her think he has value.

I've seen this manifest in several ways, mainly girls complaining nonstop about her boss and job. Then again American girls expect their lives to be picture perfect, so they complain about everything. The issue here is that most women are just weak minded and let the opinions of others influence them way too much. Look at the entire ROK fiasco, all that energy over some article on the internet. 99% of guys when they see something they don't agree with with will just say 'Fuck it, who cares' and move on.

[The Beast1]

(11-22-2013 07:17 AM)Neo Wrote:  

You make valid points. To some other posters, I don't think he's arguing the alpha or betaness of himself vs. the boss, just that another man has considerable control over his girlfriend and influence over the relationship. Also it's a set hierarchy and power dynamic, so even if the boss is the biggest beta in the world, the corporation makes her think he has value.

I've seen this manifest in several ways, mainly girls complaining nonstop about her boss and job. Then again American girls expect their lives to be picture perfect, so they complain about everything. The issue here is that most women are just weak minded and let the opinions of others influence them way too much. Look at the entire ROK fiasco, all that energy over some article on the internet. 99% of guys when they see something they don't agree with with will just say 'Fuck it, who cares' and move on.

Agreed which is also a problem.

Treat her like her corporate overlords. Be ready to hand her a pink slip (break up). Women are replaceable cogs in the social life of men and should be treated as such.

Honest question to the group: Do you guys care if your lady makes more money than you?

I thought I could tell myself I didn't care, but it very clearly makes me annoyed and forces me to work harder to eventually pass her.

I can understand unemployment, but I ended a relationship with a girl who would have landed a 6 figure job post grad school and I had no real prospects of a future (hilariously I do now!).

[Dr. Howard]

I agree on the solution just being that you have to be your wife's boss...in a relationship sense. If you can get her to leave work early to do something with you, you're ok. If she blows you off because of work stuff, you have work to do.

[Baphomet]

As a "boss" of a number of female employees, I think that the OP is somewhat overstating the case of the influence of a "boss."

The "influence" is the desire of the employee (male or female) to get ahead, promoted, and/or stay employed. My interactions with my female employees is largely as Laner suggested. I have zero interest in influencing their personal relationships. My interests are entirely in how well they do the jobs that, in the end, reflect on me.

In that regard, I do have an interest in NOT screwing around with employee's (male or female for that matter) personal lives. Employees happy in their personal lives are better workers, miss fewer days, and have fewer objections to working extra when required.

[Days of Broken Arrows]

Great post. Roissy/Heartiste wrote about this a few years ago in a classic post called "Is Female Careerism A Form Of Infidelity?" Very worth reading.

From personal experience: as bad as your woman having a male boss seems, her having a female boss might just be worse. Most male bosses have families and are busy in their spare time playing golf or whatever. So if there is some sexual dynamic, it's usually coming from the woman.

But female bosses are often women without families who have devoted themselves to their careers. My ex had one, and it was a 24/7 non-stop drama: weekend calls, constant meetings, calls for her to work on holidays, taking on too many projects, busywork, crying in the office, etc. The overtime she had to work is one of the things that helped destroy my ex's health and put her on disability.

The problem might be that women tend to create "families" no matter what the environment. So any woman in the workplace is prone to have dysfunctional relationships because her co-workers become surrogate parent or lover figures.

[Sawyer]

This falls under the one cocka rule for sure. It's not the male boss, it's the woman that is the problem. Find a woman who knows how to manage her life without breaking the one cocka rule. For a really good woman it is intuitive.

The one cocka rule (from gbfm) states that as soon as your woman brings the thought of some other man into your head (her old boyfriends, current boyfriends, friends, coworkers, bosses, whatever), she is gone.

[El_Superbeasto]

To me it sounds like OP is stuck in a defeatist mindset where he feels he's continually operating from a position of weakness. I think this quote sums it up pretty well.

(11-22-2013 07:17 AM)Neo Wrote:  

I don't think he's arguing the alpha or betaness of himself vs. the boss, just that another man has considerable control over his girlfriend and influence over the relationship.

The problem here is the assumption that the boss has considerable control over your woman. That might be true if your game is weak, but if your game is tight, it's not an issue.

(11-22-2013 07:17 AM)Neo Wrote:  

Also it's a set hierarchy and power dynamic, so even if the boss is the biggest beta in the world, the corporation makes her think he has value.

There are men whose woman's job is literally to fuck other men. That fucking might even include an explicit dom/sub power dynamic. But don't think for a second that the trick has higher value in that woman's eyes than her pimp, or any real control over the woman or her relationship with her pimp. About the only time you see a pimp get worried is when his woman goes off with another pimp.

If you've laid your game down right with your woman it doesn't matter who her boss is, or what she's doing for him, you'll always be in control.

[kinjutsu]

I dealt with this situation a few years ago.

My gf worked for a guy who has fucked his female employees (she told me and i also knew other people in that company that verified it).
My gf worked directly for him 3-4 days a week if he was in town.

These are the things i did at the beginning of the relationship:

I lay down firm boundaries of what is and isn't acceptable behavior.
Making "new" guy friends wasn't allowed unless she wanted me to make new female friends.
If she wants to be associated with me then she needs to carry herself a particular way. She represents me when I'm not there.


A lot of people may this is some insecure behavior limiting her actions, but i see it more as a test. She'll do the things she needs to to keep me happy or she wont. If she doesn't then i move on and find a more willing participant.

Once i found out that this guy with very little actual game was using his power at work to fuck girls i told her in no uncertain terms that if/when he asks her to go on a business trip or any after hours thing with just the two of them the relationship is done. You have to draw the line in the sand and walk when not if she crosses it.

She eventually did have dinner with him one night they both had to work late. She came home piss drunk and didn't want me to touch her till after she took a shower.
Once she finished the shower i informed her that its over and I'd be moving my stuff out tomorrow while she is at work.
She proceeded to deny it and begged me to stay and attempted to physically stop me from leaving. I texted my friend to help me grab some of my clothes that night. (Also as a witness just in case she tried to claim i hit her)

About 3 weeks later i hear that she was let go because she used company money to get a hotel room to hook up with her boss that night.
Then he was fired a week later after several female employees came forward about his behavior.
He promised them pay raises, promotions, free stuff for sex. Then he would find some arbitrary thing to discipline them on so he could hold back on his promise saying it would look really bad if they are rewarded for fucking up.

This situation is more about the character of the female than about how good your game is compared to her boss or male co-workers.

[wolf]

(11-22-2013 03:15 PM)kinjutsu Wrote:  

This situation is more about the character of the female than about how good your game is compared to her boss or male co-workers.

Exactly.