[sylo]

It has been a long time since I have contributed anything of value. Hopefully, my current experience can shed light on a few of the things I hear getting thrown around here lately. While I consider some of the stuff I have read recently about East Asia inaccurate, it is important to remember everyone has a different circumstances.

I have noticed a lot of talk about how hard it is to pull here. I am in South Korea, Seoul area, for reference. It is a very different culture compared to that of the west, specifically California. There is a lot of group-think here which gets really annoying, and it is very homogenous. I received my first Korean flag when I was living in Latin America, but scoring more while being in Korea was much more difficult at first. As a side note, the white girls here, the western girls, are very easy to bag if you have one iota of game. The western girls in general do not find most Korean men attractive, so you being there and not fucking up is most of your game. I did not come here to bang western women, but it beats a hand and also helps you out while trying to figure out your Asian game.

Korean women are hot. I never had yellow fever until getting here. Now it’s bad. I need a vaccine. Seriously the quality of women here is astounding. It has been mentioned here before but I would like to reiterate that these women are very feminine; wear heals, and dress very well. And they best thing is, once you practice and get through the learning curve, they are NOT HARD TO GAME. My biggest mistake had been being a little too aloof and dickish. Something that works very well in the west for me does not crossover here. The girls are much shyer and are self conscious of their English, so even making strong jokes might scare them off. That has been the hardest thing for me to learn. If you ease up a bit and quit worrying about whether or not you are showing your cards, they will relax more and open up. Basically, less game is more.

One thing you should continue to do like you would with western women, is do what you want to do when you want to do it. I think this is universal with women. Here in Korea, most young people still live at home with their parents, especially women who are not married, so there are love motels all over. These are places you rent from 50-100 bucks a night, and some can be quite nice. I always make sure there is a big bath tub in the room before I rent it. Anyway, you have been having a great time with your hot little Asian, you already know the area you are in so you just grab her hand and walk her out of the bar and down the street to a love motel. Sometimes, you will get questions. You say you are tired but you still want to talk a little longer in the room you have down the street. You have to get up early in the morning so she can only stay for one more beer. (Pretty normal stuff you would say when going through any last min resistance) But honestly, now that I have dialed in my Asian game, most do not even ask questions. Koreans are a conservative culture, but are definitely down for a ONS. I have raw dogged every single one, and have not had one yet that has not loved getting choked and spanked, and hair pulled. Just for your information, if you are into a nice, smooth vagina, Korea is not for you. To this day I have never been with one that has ever even trimmed. I am not too into the bush but you learn to get over that very quickly.

What I am saying is East Asia really is not as difficult as I have heard other people say recently. The Japanese girls I have laid here are obviously easier because they are away from home, but even the Koreans are not difficult once you figure your game out. It’s about you adapting your game to them and the culture, not the other way around. And you still have a bit of an exotic factor if you are white/black/latino. Play that up to your advantage too.

PS had my first threesome 2 months back. While it was with two westerners, it wasn’t all that good because I could tell the other 2 dudes didn’t have much experience. Just kidding, even though it was with 2 American girls, it was still really awesome. Took me forever to get hard, but I eventually managed.

Point is lots of sex can be had here on the other side of the world; you just have to put time and practice into adapting.

[Cyclone]

(10-27-2013 08:49 AM)sylo Wrote:  

it was with 2 American girls, it was still really awesome. Took me forever to get hard, but I eventually managed.

That's yellow fever right there alright.

I'm in Singapore now and the chicks are nothing compared to Koreans.. tho I've spent 2 weeks in Korea (mostly Seoul and Busan) I found the girls stuck up / hard to approach. Are you sure playing "nice guy" is the right way to go? How to do it without supplecating? I refuse to give up my sarcastic dickhead approach haha

TBH I am more interested in Japanese girls.. but yeah, Korean chicks are smokin.

[CEOArob]

(10-27-2013 08:49 AM)sylo Wrote:  

had my first threesome 2 months back. While it was with two westerners, it wasn’t all that good because I could tell the other 2 dudes didn’t have much experience. Just kidding

Made me LOL hard.

Good writeup.

Thanks.

[WanderingSoul]

Good writeup. How long have you been in Korea, and how long will you stay?

I hear Korean chicks are super hot. I banged one here in Thailand, but she had lived in Canada for five years and was a 6 at best. It was 2am in the hallway of a hostel though, so I took it.

[Sargon of Akkad]

^^

I don't think anyone's saying it is objectively hard to pull here. However, I and others are disputing the widely held notion that it is "so easy you'd have to be deformed not to get laid like a king as long as your foreign looking," or that East Asian women "worship white men" or similar nonsense.

(10-09-2013 02:26 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

The fact that asian girls worship whitemen means it takes less game to bang them

(10-20-2013 10:56 PM)Wutang Wrote:  

Not knocking the efforts of players who were tearing it up but going to East Asia as a white guy is pretty much gaming in easy mode.

These beliefs are much more widely held on this forum and in real life than the notion that it's difficult. There are just too many people who seem to believe they'll have women throwing themselves at them wherever they go in EA as long as they look white or black.

While I personally have had more trouble in Japan than in China or Central Europe, I hope I got well enough across that it I was talking largely about my own personal experiences in regard to the way Japanese women react to towards me, and not what every guy should expect to find here.

Furthermore, I think it's worth noting that "ease" and "difficulty" are always relative, and one man's poosy paradise can be another man's pergatory and vice versa. Write ups serve as good advice and the more positive things you here about a place, the better, but the fact is you never know how you'll do in a given country, city or venue until actually go there.

Ceterum censeo Osakam esse delendam!

[Bushido]

(10-27-2013 08:49 AM)sylo Wrote:  

My biggest mistake had been being a little too aloof and dickish. Something that works very well in the west for me does not crossover here. The girls are much shyer and are self conscious of their English, so even making strong jokes might scare them off.

True dat. Negging and aloof game doesn't work so well in East Asia. Partly due to the culture but also the language difference. You run the risk of insulting them instead of seducing them.

Teasing is king here. Tease them like you used to tease your 12 year old cousins. They love that. You know you are doing them right when they are giggling like little girls or (at least with Japanese) shyly covering their mouths with their hand while they laugh. Something like this:



And don't forget to smile more.

[Global_Cocksman]

I've had better luck and more interest from Chinese and Korean girls. For whatever reason, Japs just hate me.

Chinese girls seemed mostly easy as shit when I was there. Even the most beta, clueless white dude would probably end up with a few lays or a cute girlfriend there eventually.

I haven't gotten my Korean flag yet, but it doesn't seem THAT hard. I had a date with a fob Korean girl recently. We had lunch and chilled in a cafe. I didn't try to go for the lay just yet because of bad logistics, but she seemed interested in meeting me again at my place. In any case, I have a feeling I'd get K girl game down after a few weeks there. I'll be going to Seoul soon, so it'll be interesting to see how I do.

[sylo]

Cyclone, def don't do nice guy mode. What I mean is a huge part of my game is being an ass, and being arrogant. It fits with my personality, its fun, and I like the results. But here, in Korea, I was not doing to well with the Korean girls. Westerners are super easy but I could have stayed in CA for that. So it took me some time but I have had way better results by just dialing back a bit. Dreambig is right that the teasing goes a very long way, but don't over due the arrogance. A really good balance is to portray a sort of bad boy image by not conforming to social norms, and here in Asia there are a ton, but to also not put down the chicks very hard.

I have started my 8th month here and will be here at least another 4 months, but I think I might try to bounce when my contract is up. I want to get back to somewhere that is not so closed and more relaxed culturally.

[Irish]

(10-28-2013 02:47 AM)Sargon of Akkad Wrote:  

^^

I don't think anyone's saying it is objectively hard to pull here. However, I and others are disputing the widely held notion that it is "so easy you'd have to be deformed not to get laid like a king as long as your foreign looking," or that East Asian women "worship white men" or similar nonsense.

(10-09-2013 02:26 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

The fact that asian girls worship whitemen means it takes less game to bang them

(10-20-2013 10:56 PM)Wutang Wrote:  

Not knocking the efforts of players who were tearing it up but going to East Asia as a white guy is pretty much gaming in easy mode.

These beliefs are much more widely held on this forum and in real life than the notion that it's difficult. There are just too many people who seem to believe they'll have women throwing themselves at them wherever they go in EA as long as they look white or black.

While I personally have had more trouble in Japan than in China or Central Europe, I hope I got well enough across that it I was talking largely about my own personal experiences in regard to the way Japanese women react to towards me, and not what every guy should expect to find here.

Furthermore, I think it's worth noting that "ease" and "difficulty" are always relative, and one man's poosy paradise can be another man's pergatory and vice versa. Write ups serve as good advice and the more positive things you here about a place, the better, but the fact is you never know how you'll do in a given country, city or venue until actually go there.

Ceterum censeo Osakam esse delendam!

I agree with this as I know a lot of local guys here in Singapore who believe as a white guy you just need to show up and that's it, you can have any chick you want, which annoys me a bit. For sure it's definitely easier than back in the UK where I'm from but it's not always the total turkey shoot as some make out and can vary significantly depending on what SEA country you are in. Especially here being a lot more westernized the 'ex pat effect' isn't as profound as compared to other SEA countries and you have plenty of Caucasian good looking rich guys to compete with. But having said that finding an average looking local chick who just wants a western boyfriend isn't too tricky...if that's what you're after. Given how forward these type of chicks tend to be a clueless beta boy with zero game and low standards would make a killing relative to how he would do back in the likes of the UK/US. For guys with game and high standards however the difference would be much less, perhaps worse for some.

I did have trouble adapting when I first got here initially and a lot of it was as sylo said, I was too aloof and cheeky. Which was something that worked well for me back in Glasgow UK. I was also too stubborn and rigid to change my ways also until I saw the results other guys were getting. But as you say Sargon it really does vary from guy to guy as I know dudes who came here and couldn't pull their hamstring while others started tearing it up the moment they got off the plane. It just really depends on your style, tastes and ability to adapt.

Furthermore on the 'difficulty' factor, I feel generally no matter where you go it levels out eventually. As personally for me if I arrive somewhere where I find I'm getting laid like a rockstar, after a few weeks banging I will start increasing my standards to the point where I hit the upper limit and begin to struggle to close the next tier of girl. Perhaps thats just me tho I have always been a quality over quantity type of guy and love the challenge. But I have always believed the quality of chick you generally pick up as opposed to the numbers you rack up is the better indicator of your level of game.

Not met that many Koreans but the ones i have met and from what i hear from other guys who have been here longer is that they're very flirty but don't put out easily. I have interacted with more Japanese and I get the same impression although not quite as bad. Not got either flag yet but definitely had more joy with the japanese chicks as turned down a couple of 'open goals' with jap birds (they weren't quite up to scratch and giving off massive clinger signals). Not got anywhere that close to sealing the deal with a korean chick as of yet however, and mates of mine here have also experienced the same struggles. I can imagine back in their home country (without the 'girls on tour' factor) they would probably be even tougher as well, but sounds like Sylo has done a good job working out the conundrum.

Irish

[WanderingSoul]

(10-28-2013 03:14 AM)dreambig Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 08:49 AM)sylo Wrote:  

My biggest mistake had been being a little too aloof and dickish. Something that works very well in the west for me does not crossover here. The girls are much shyer and are self conscious of their English, so even making strong jokes might scare them off.

True dat. Negging and aloof game doesn't work so well in East Asia. Partly due to the culture but also the language difference. You run the risk of insulting them instead of seducing them.

Teasing is king here. Tease them like you used to tease your 12 year old cousins. They love that. You know you are doing them right when they are giggling like little girls or (at least with Japanese) shyly covering their mouths with their hand while they laugh. Something like this:



And don't forget to smile more.

Spot on. Smile a lot, be confident but not arrogant, tease them in a very non threatening way, lots of eye contact. That's how it's done here as well.

[Kieran]

(10-28-2013 11:21 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  

(10-28-2013 03:14 AM)dreambig Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 08:49 AM)sylo Wrote:  

My biggest mistake had been being a little too aloof and dickish. Something that works very well in the west for me does not crossover here. The girls are much shyer and are self conscious of their English, so even making strong jokes might scare them off.

True dat. Negging and aloof game doesn't work so well in East Asia. Partly due to the culture but also the language difference. You run the risk of insulting them instead of seducing them.

Teasing is king here. Tease them like you used to tease your 12 year old cousins. They love that. You know you are doing them right when they are giggling like little girls or (at least with Japanese) shyly covering their mouths with their hand while they laugh. Something like this:



And don't forget to smile more.

Spot on. Smile a lot, be confident but not arrogant, tease them in a very non threatening way, lots of eye contact. That's how it's done here as well.

Yeah, I agree with all of this for BKK too. I'd also add that cocky funny is fine in a charming way, as long as you have the language skills, or she speaks good enough English, so that you don't come across as arrogant.

Also with the younger more innocent ones, I'll sometimes say some cornball romantic shit and they swoon. Just don't be needy.

I also try to think of being more elegant, rather than coming in like a bull in a china shop, because you can startle the horse.

[Northern]

Awesome stuff Sylo! Have you had much experience with Korean girls abroad? Are they any easier when on holiday?

[clever alias]

am I mistaken in believing that Koreans are surprisingly Evangelical? In my experience they are, and are not "interested" in non-Christians? Of course most of my exposure to Korean Koreans (not Korean-Americans) have been study abroad students

[Menace]

sylo,

Good report, but I still feel something is missing. I think some other details would be helpful.

1. What is your Korean ability? How important is that?
2. What is your source for girls? Social circle/night/day (where, street, shop?)/on-line?
3. How much effort are you putting in? Dates/week, and bangs resulting from that.
4. Are you generally considered good looking by Koreans? Any plus factors (height, light hair, light eyes, wolverine claws) ?
5. Does your social status play any role (you don't need to reveal your job, but does that matter?)
6. It still seems like Korea is not a good place for a 2 week visit; living there is a different ball of wax.

[sylo]

Northern, my first Korean flag was in Latin America and it came on the first night I had met her. We hung out all that day (staying in the same hostel) and went out together, then took her back to my single room (she was in the dorm) and sealed the deal. It was very easy, and felt very natural. I feel like my game was solid, but also because she wasn't making it too difficult. I am a huge believer in ease equaling distance from home. So her being 5000 miles from home and in a way more open society is very advantageous.

clever alias, yes, you are wrong to believe that. I remember reading something somewhere that South Korea has the most Christian churches per capita than anywhere else in the world; but individually, most of these people are very secular. Their culture is their religion. To be honest, I do not have much experience with Korean-Americans, all of my information is regarding Korean-Koreans, but I went from getting shut down and flaked on (through cell, it never even reached meet ups) to pulling from the bar after 2 hours and consistenly getting ONS from them. It felt like 0-60 overnight. All I did was stop trying so hard and shit started working for me rather than I working for it. Sounds simple but until you have that light bulb go off you keep making the same mistakes and what not.

Menace, very fair questions indeed. My Korean is less than 40 words. It is worse than terrible. So the only factor is me making fun of myself and usuing the very little Korean I know to make them laugh. My only source at the moment is bar/club. The older I get, the more clubs become annoying and I hate yelling at someone 10 inches away from you as form of conversation, but still, clubs are not bad to pull from and sometimes you have to suck it up. 1st world problems I tell you. 0% social circle and 0% online. I have never tried online so I don't know the scene here, but I can say I would NEVER rely on social scene. However, if you are in a pinch and need to pound it out all of the above aside from online work for westerners. They really are super easy here. 94% of my efforts are straight meet and pull. I have maybe been on 3 dates the last 2 months and they have been with girls I have already been with. For some reason, setting up meeting times for another day does not work for me; or I just have not adapted to that yet, but I found going for the SNL is MY best option. It would differ for other dudes maybe. I am good looking. 6'2, blonde hair, blue eyes, and I own it. Truth is that helps, but you still have to back it up. So just own the situation and control the frame and looks don't matter. Remember these are very feminine chicks so if you take the lead you are doing well. Job does not matter. Reveal it, most know what you are there for anyway (English teacher) Sometimes I tell them I am a Korean teacher just to make fun. But really, job has nothing to do with it. I have only been asked out of curiosity and never as a gold digging tool. I do not think comming here for 2 weeks is a great idea unless you are particularly into the culture or country. It took me 7 months just to dial in my basics. Not saying that you should not come but this place is closed, repetative, and a lot to get used to right off the bat. Koreans think the whole world is right here on this little penisula, but reality is that it is less than a tiny dot on the globe. Anyway that should answer most of your questions but I am here if you have anymore.

[Menace]

^^^ Thanks sylo, I think your comment puts your original post into a good context. Somewhat envy you: K-girls are just really top notch.

[WanderingSoul]

Sylo, what kinds of bars do you usually pull them from?

Here in Bangkok there are Thai style places which are much harder to pull from, and then Western style places that some Thai girls frequent who are interested in white guys. Farang groupies. Unfortunately, the groupie chicks are usually not as hot as their more Thai counterparts.

Are you going to Western themed places to pick them up? If so, how would you compare the quality there to your standard middle/upper middle class Korean spot?

[LeightonBlackstock]

Sylo, this is good stuff. Nice to see someone breaking through in Korea. I actually plan to go back there one day and live in Seoul this time, as I never got to run any game in that city. I have unfinished business. (Though I think I'd have visa problems as I did a midnight run )

Part of what you said was particularly interesting for me, as it reminded me of a conversation I was having on Saturday night with another RVF member. I wonder if you've been having similar thoughts. Like you, I am also 100% fixated on SNL's from the club, but my friend 'whand' is nearly 100% into day game. In addition, the majority of the other 'game' guys I've met have been very 'day game heavy' in comparison to me (not necessarily RVF guys).

I actually don't even entertain the idea of trying something else than hunting for the ONS in clubs. I can't figure out if this is because Asian girls are flaky outside of the 'heat of the moment', i.e the drunk night at the club OR if it's that I just can't be arsed with such an arduous process. I find that it just takes SO much more time and effort to get a girl on a date and bang her. Plus I find the process utterly boring. Sometimes I'd probably turn down a date with a previously number-closed girl, because I feel like my chances of a SNL are better in the club that night. Plus I actually really enjoy going out to clubs, especially if I have a good wing.

I can make out with a girl and/or number-close her well, and she'll say how she wants to meet up, but if I don't get the bang that night I think "NEXT". Part of me feels like I've learnt to know that it probably won't reach the height of the escalation that was reached in the club that night (hence a low chance of bang), and part of me feels like I just can't be arsed to chase a girl for a week. Any similar thoughts?

On another note, I totally agree with the teasing thing. In the early days I was either too cocky or too 'try-hard James Bond'. Just do anything that'll make them jokingly punch you on the arm.

[GyopoPlayboy]

(10-27-2013 08:49 AM)sylo Wrote:  

Korean women are hot. I never had yellow fever until getting here. Now it’s bad. I need a vaccine.

lol.

all i wanna do when i see them is

sadly no vaccine or cure yet.

decent write-up. more specifics next time if you can. i think i have a solid handle on korean girls, but always down to learn more.

[iknowexactly]

(10-29-2013 11:46 AM)LeightonBlackstock Wrote:  

Sylo, this is good stuff. Nice to see someone breaking through in Korea.

Yeah but he's very tall young and blond.....Do you think it might be partly physical hahaha

good account and ufo though..thanks

[sylo]

RioNomad: It is a mixture of both. I would say half and half actually. There are a lot of western bars, and your right about them already being into that sort of thing if they are already there, but sometimes I find those ones a little harder because they think they have heard it all and like I said, Korean chicks are hot so most of the clueless western dudes inflate their ego and they think they are big league. If that makes sense. But yes you can pull from there, but I wouldn't say they are a tier or two less than at the Korean bars; they are still pretty hot, although I know what you are saying. If you have not been here it is hard to get the point across that there are hot chicks everywhere here. So even at the western places they are fucking hot. Im telling you the fever has its grip on me.

LeightonBlackstock: So glad you did a midnight run. I HATE my hagwan boss and am contemplating it, but I would be missing out on a big chunk of money at the end of the year. Still I am tempted cause she is so bad but we will see. The game question you asked is weird for me. I go through phases. If I am in the States, it is almost always game for ONS. But every time I am in a different country, I usually feel like a kid at a candy store and will pipeline a lot more; try to get numbers on the subway, the street, and what not, but still the thing that has been working for me lately is the bar/club SNL. Talk to me in a few months and I might be all about the mall.

GyopoPlayboy: Is there a particular question you have? What specifics do you want? I will bring a pen next weekend and record exact times and smells and feelings to help you understand.

[Ilikekane]

Sylo


You're doing a good job bro, a lot of guys just bang trash K girls and say 'it's easy', whereas banging rubbish girls no one wants is relatively easy anywhere.

Korea does have the hottest girls and probably the best bodies in all of Asia (Unless you like dark farm girls from Thai land.....yes I do think those girls are trash).

You've covered a lot of stuff which is great and very suitable for Korea.

Asia focuses more on Courtship than Seduction, Koreans are very proud of Korea and don't want to make Korea be seen as a bad place or that K girls are easy.

So they just get drunk.

Yep, Soju is an awesome part of K culture, if you can get a K girl to drink soju with you (they have LOTS of drinking games) then they will be able to ignore the whole 'korean girls aren't like this' thing and get to the banging much quicker as they wont feel responsible for it.

They essentially need to deceive themselves about it to rationalise everything, so you're best bet is giving them other ways to rationalise why it's ok to bang you.


For example -

If a girl banged a guy on the first date, she'd be a ho.
If she felt like she really liked him (maybe love) and he really liked her, she'd be judged much less harshly.

One of the keys to Asia is Compliments, if you compliment girls and let them know why you actually like them, they will feel more secure (Asian girls are super insecure) and feel much more ok about banging.

Also Future projection is quite useful as it lets the girl know you're not gonna PAD her.

Compliment:

I really like that you're so positive and happy, this makes me feel really good being around you, i feel that you really like me and it makes me not want to let you go.


This compliment lets the girl know exactly why you like her, how it makes you feel and the benefit of it.

just saying

I like you.

isn't as powerful.


Here are some videos I know about Asian girls, great stuff and relevant to Korea


<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/iogQGyXxs9c" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



Also found this video by a guy who has lived in Korea for a long time

http://asiandatingmonthly.com/summit-2012-bluem/

Pretty good stuff.


Lastly you said K girls are down for anything - yeah, the more repressed the society, the more freaky they get, same as China.

The western girls there are pretty desperate .

In terms of clubs, at the moment Octagon is the hottest place, most hot girls, Edan and Allui used to be awesome.

Day Game - Gangnam, the main drag thru the middle, there are a large amount of coffee shops there, it's a gold mine.

[Ilikekane]

(10-30-2013 02:32 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

(10-29-2013 11:46 AM)LeightonBlackstock Wrote:  

Sylo, this is good stuff. Nice to see someone breaking through in Korea.

Yeah but he's very tall young and blond.....Do you think it might be partly physical hahaha

good account and ufo though..thanks

Hey,

Of course being tall blonde and good looking gives you some points....but with some brains, some game and some approaching, anything is possible.

one of my friends is a 160something cm black guy, American, he does well too.

[Bushido]

(10-30-2013 02:08 PM)Ilikekane Wrote:  

One of the keys to Asia is Compliments, if you compliment girls and let them know why you actually like them, they will feel more secure (Asian girls are super insecure) and feel much more ok about banging.

Compliment:

I really like that you're so positive and happy, this makes me feel really good being around you, i feel that you really like me and it makes me not want to let you go.

I disagree. Hot girls get complimented all day long in Asian countries. They are far from insecure! Compliment them at your peril if you haven't banged them yet.

One caveat: Compliment game does work better on a certain type of Asian girl. Maybe it sounds like I'm contradicting myself here but wait.

What I think happens a lot is that Asian girls that foreigners consider hot (tall, jet black hair, more western fashion, narrower "Asian"-looking eyes etc) aren't popular with their own men. That's why you might get the impression that "Asian girls are insecure". Compliments work better on these girls because what is a 5 or 6 to Asian men is a 7 or 8 to some of us. Then you get some of the ones who just like westerners for some reason. I bang these types too but I don't kid myself that they are top draw (not saying you do).

Not hating, just making an observation based on my experience here.

[Mumbojumbo]

Thanks for sharing your experiences. I found korean girls the hottest. I ended up with K girls in china, Europe and California. Must be something in the water so my next trip is to Busan