[OkStudies]

Or fatties, or smartphones or gender ratios. Those are all derivative symptoms of a much larger cause.

And that would be Generation Y (millennial) values.

Our generation is the most spoiled, narcissistic, lazy, childish and whim-ridden generation in American history.

Quote:

The incidence of narcissistic personality disorder is nearly three times as high for people in their 20s as for the generation that's now 65 or older, according to the National Institutes of Health

http://content.time.com/time/magazine/ar...01,00.html

It's no coincidence for example, that the seductive arts in modern parlance is most commonly called "game". Because generation y wants to liken everything to a game. They need constant stimulation and rewards. Game is merely a system of rewards and punishments and rose out of our modern environment.

Witness the "YOLO" phenomenon, an excuse for wanton stupidity, mindless hedonism and ramped up female behavior.

The SWPL and hipster phenomenon are another popular manifestation of this value-system. Style over substance. Preening, pretense, political correctness and whimsical fads.

Witness the sudden explosion of "social media" and the obsession with "being seen" and recorded.

Nowadays, to avoid ridiculous flake rates one must be a mini-celebrity, DJ, or have some other bullshit status. Women want status in every society, but Americans define "status" differently (arguably worse) than other cultures.

When you connect it all together you get one common denominator tying it all together. It has all happened (or got worse) with the last 10-15 years. And now, we are at the apex of every observable metric (from fatties, to smartphone ocd etc)

What does that mean? It means generation y, which has come into age in the last 10-15 years and is beginning to take over the functions of society has created a huge shift and the manosphere's growth merely reflects a reflexive response to that shift.

Were American women, for example even as bad as they today as they were even 20-30 years ago? Observing 80's/90's pop culture (art is a reflection of the society that makes it) and my own experiences, the answer is arguably no.

What does the future look like? At the rate it's going, not good. Thoughts?

[iknowexactly]

I'm beginning to think the whole idea of generational differences is an illusion.

People respond to the press of their environment.

Today, they press of the environment is increased concentration of wealth in the top .01%, and the total disenfranchisement of the bottom 80% into drones who can't afford their own home for example.

So women's genetic programming kicks in, as it would 2000 years ago, and focuses on baby survivability.

It's just that there's fewer males that can provide the $500K house and mid-grade college for the kids that the kid needs to compete in the above plutocratic scenario.

So the chicks screen harder and harder.

I'm in a fairly elite college town, and the guys are pretty passive but the ones who were brought up with long-term beta values ( work hard , 2 weeks off a year for the next 30 years) are tall and vigorous and going to make big money. Little Suzy is scheming to get a big, rich one.

I'm out of their perceived candidate pool, and am virtually invisible to white girls who want the 500khouseandcollegeforkids provider.

Even someone super-skliled at game, tall and not that old ( 38?) like Roosh might have a pretty hard time landing a 23 year old hot blond here in Collegeville unless he's making a lot more money than I think. Unless his fame explodes past a certain point which it might.

[christpuncher]

This shit started before millennial... and if it is our fault, it's because of the divorced families with no dad, single moms, and worst of all... complete families with a pussy dad who can't /won't control his wife and take charge of discipline in the family.
This was the VAST majority of the families that I grew up around in middle class Canada. I remember only two dads out of all my friend's dads who were masculine and frightening and you didn't want to Fuck around with. All the rest were pussies. There were few single mothers or divorced families.

That's your source of gen y dumbassery...

[Courage Reborn]

Speaking of the 80's...

Anyone remember love songs playing on the radio? Top 40 is now just dirty club and dance music. Sure, radio stopped being relevant with the rise of the information age, but it still says something about our cultural values.

It's as if romance was almost entirely replaced, with what the OP is talking about. Plus stuff like Sex & the City.

[Thomas the Rhymer]

(10-23-2013 01:40 AM)OkStudies Wrote:  

What does the future look like? At the rate it's going, not good. Thoughts?

It's always foolish to pretend to be able to predict the future, but looking at past history (example: how the conservative Victorian age gave way to the permissive Edwardian age) it looks like human society has a back and forth thing going on in terms of social mores, veering from decadence to conservatism and struggling to find a middle road.

Maybe in about 20 years there will be a backlash, and then racism, nationalism, thinness, stiff-upper-lipness and sexual repression will be fashionable again among the young, and us guys who will be older then will be longing for the good old days when game could get you laid.

[Cyr]

(10-23-2013 08:46 AM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  

(10-23-2013 01:40 AM)OkStudies Wrote:  

What does the future look like? At the rate it's going, not good. Thoughts?

It's always foolish to pretend to be able to predict the future, but looking at past history (example: how the conservative Victorian age gave way to the permissive Edwardian age) it looks like human society has a back and forth thing going on in terms of social mores, veering from decadence to conservatism and struggling to find a middle road.

Maybe in about 20 years there will be a backlash, and then racism, nationalism, thinness, stiff-upper-lipness and sexual repression will be fashionable again among the young, and us guys who will be older then will be longing for the good old days when game could get you laid.

Yeah, this is a good point. For example in Victorian times, it was fashionable for men to be 'unmasculine' or at least to wear effete clothing and work to separate themselves from any vigour or aggressive activity. However in the late 19th and 20th century these experienced a resurgence (which coincided with the rise and emergence of boxing). So we may well see things rebound from where they are today.

[Ternarydemonite]

(10-23-2013 03:40 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

I'm in a fairly elite college town, and the guys are pretty passive but the ones who were brought up with long-term beta values ( work hard , 2 weeks off a year for the next 30 years) are tall and vigorous and going to make big money. Little Suzy is scheming to get a big, rich one.

I'm out of their perceived candidate pool, and am virtually invisible to white girls who want the 500khouseandcollegeforkids provider.

Even someone super-skliled at game, tall and not that old ( 38?) like Roosh might have a pretty hard time landing a 23 year old hot blond here in Collegeville unless he's making a lot more money than I think. Unless his fame explodes past a certain point which it might.

Those girls want a long-term provider, so earning a lot, being part of their social circle from birth and having beta-family-values is a must. Roosh and other players have neither of that. Even a foreign alpha lover on the side may mean discredit if discovered. That is not to say that they would not have ONSs with a rich alpha from a known family in their community.

These elite community women are not stupid, are educated and know about the Wall and what being labeled a slut entails. They know the destiny that awaits to a 30 something looking for a provider after 15 years slut-riding the cock-carrousel.

[Agent 47]

Another thread about bashing millenials. We get it, they suck. But what are YOU, my fellow millenials, gonna do about it??

Focus on yourself. You're the only one you got.

[Barron]

(10-23-2013 08:46 AM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  

(10-23-2013 01:40 AM)OkStudies Wrote:  

What does the future look like? At the rate it's going, not good. Thoughts?

and us guys who will be older then will be longing for the good old days when game could get you laid.

Disagree.
The more chaste a woman is, the more feminine she is. And if the women of Ukraine/Russia are any indicator, more feminine women take way less game to be with, unless you're going for an ONS.

[scorpion]

Our culture today is shit, yes, but millenials growing up in this culture are not the ones responsible for creating it. They are its victims. They never had a chance.

The old codger sitting in his easy chair calling today's kids a bunch of spoiled cunts would be fucking around on the internet all day texting dick pics to sluts if he happened to be born in 1992 instead of 1932. Millenials were born into this culture, they don't know anything different. They simply adapt to it as best they can.

When you have a society whose core cultural values have been completely eviscerated by decades of progressivism (which includes feminism) coupled with massive technological change that disrupts every level of society, it's no surprise that a generation growing up and taking the brunt of those impacts will have a few issues.

For example, how do you expect kids NOT to be narcissistic in a culture that handed them a smartphone at age 8 and a social media profile at age 10? Or where they see celebrities being glorified in the media 24/7, many of whom are literally famous despite a complete lack of talent? How are kids supposed to not be narcissistic in a society that tells them that money and fame are the highest values to aspire toward?

It's far too simplistic an analysis to say, "Kids these days are really shitty", or even "Women caused this when they started pushing feminism."

Our level of cultural decay is too advanced to have just sort of happened as a consequence of those things. Rather, it has been an ongoing process for most of the 20th century, especially the latter half of the century.

This shit didn't happen overnight, so blaming the millenials is just silly. It's like blaming a kid for debts that his grandfather owes.

[RockHard]

(10-23-2013 08:54 AM)Cyr Wrote:  

Yeah, this is a good point. For example in Victorian times, it was fashionable for men to be 'unmasculine' or at least to wear effete clothing and work to separate themselves from any vigour or aggressive activity. However in the late 19th and 20th century these experienced a resurgence (which coincided with the rise and emergence of boxing). So we may well see things rebound from where they are today.

Funny that Lady Chatterly's Lover was basically about a high class broad screwing the gardener. Probably signaled what you're talking about.

[RockHard]

(10-23-2013 11:37 AM)scorpion Wrote:  

The old codger sitting in his easy chair calling today's kids a bunch of spoiled cunts would be fucking around on the internet all day texting dick pics to sluts if he happened to be born in 1992 instead of 1932. Millenials were born into this culture, they don't know anything different. They simply adapt to it as best they can.

...

This shit didn't happen overnight, so blaming the millenials is just silly. It's like blaming a kid for debts that his grandfather owes.

That's funny because I know a guy in his 90's who got totally played in a late 2nd marriage - he married a woman in her late 70's when he was mid 80's, she turned out to be a total gold digger. Lied to him up and down and after the marriage he starts finding out shit and it's too late. I'm telling you, that was an eyeopener. So much for the "greatest generation" with that cunt.

[Albertron]

Here's what I think we should do with all of this:

Now that the issues have been recognized about these times, and this "spoiled, narcissistic, lazy, childish and whim-ridden generation", instead of just continuing to find reasons to bash them, to analyze the differences between this generation and the previous generation, why not simply accept the situation for what it is, adapt and rise above it?

Analogizing it to game, when you've approached a hottie and she's displaying behaviour you're unfamiliar with or puts up a strong defensive wall, you wouldn't just pull back, sulk about it and complain to the world how much of a bitch she is. There is a way to break her down and get to her, it's simply a matter of adjusting your frame, your approach and your tactics.

Instead of complaining about how much this generation sucks, be that guy that separates himself from the Generation Y population. I work at a bar, and see these types of dudes everywhere. Don't follow what these guys do, establish your own character, focus on your own strengths and interests, regardless of what is the prominent interests and trends of society are.

Using fame as a game crutch means having established a confident identity and character in which many people know about and are aware of. Developing that same confident idea of self can also be achieved without fame. We all know it as inner game, or maintaining a powerful frame amongst these women.

[Bacchus]

(10-23-2013 01:40 AM)OkStudies Wrote:  

Were American women, for example even as bad as they today as they were even 20-30 years ago? Observing 80's/90's pop culture (art is a reflection of the society that makes it) and my own experiences, the answer is arguably no.

I agree that American women in the 80's and 90's weren't nearly as bad, but they already contained the defects that we complain about now. It's hard to just blame the media for the present day culture when there were elements 30 years ago that told women that the path of independent careerism led to their happiness and fulfillment and thought less of women whose ambition didn't extend beyond her household. Fat culture and slut culture also grew out of the trends already present in the 80's. But society as a whole prevented the girls of that day and age from embracing the worst aspects of the culture and from being as bad as the present day ones.

The culture has worsened because new technology made it possible. Technology has enabled the girls of today to entertain more male attention than previously imaginable. Every girl has a cell phone now, which allows her to bypass her parents and interact directly with any guy who crosses her path. This enables her to give her number out to more guys because she can. Compare that to the 80's when a girl only had a home phone, so she couldn't give out her number to 50 guys because her parents would get pissed about so many dudes calling the house. What this means is that each guy she interacts with on her phone has less value than he previously would have because now he's one of potentially hundreds in her phone. Whereas getting a number in the 80's was a higher hurdle to clear, it also meant a lot more.

Now add the effects of the internet, which introduces more guys to hoist her onto a higher pedestal from which she reigns over her subjects. Through social media (especially Facebook), she can expand her social circle beyond the people she talks to on a daily basis or regularly interacts with to include anyone she's ever had a conversation with. It is from this pool of suitors from which she selects. Depending on how much of an attention whore she is, the number available to her can be 10x-1,000x larger than what was previously available to a comparable girl only 20 years ago. Instead of having to be among the best men out of 100, now you have to be the best of 10,000 to get her attention.

The interaction of technologies has worsened the effect. You couldn't take selfies in the 80's. It was a waste of film, and no girl is going to carry around camera to take a picture (let alone 30) of herself posing in the bathroom. Now, every girl has the ability to do just that with her prized cellphone, and post it online on her Facebook profile for her adoring masses to like and comment on. And her phone now has a constant internet connection, so that she can update her social media profiles at any time. Through this connection, validation continuously streams to her. Her attention turns to serving her buzzing, pinging machine, and she cares not for observing the world around her because each beep means that someone is somehow saying something related to her.

Finally, the American family structure has deteriorated since the 80's. A larger amount of the generation today has grow up in broken homes than did the generation 20 years ago. When a child grows up in this environment without meaningful guidance of a two-parent house, there is no one to correct the corrupting influence of technology and culture. This produces spoiled narcissists, yes, but you can't blame the products of a bad environment for not overcoming the failings of that same environment.

[Therapsid]

(10-23-2013 08:16 AM)Courage Reborn Wrote:  

Speaking of the 80's...

Anyone remember love songs playing on the radio? Top 40 is now just dirty club and dance music. Sure, radio stopped being relevant with the rise of the information age, but it still says something about our cultural values.

It's as if romance was almost entirely replaced, with what the OP is talking about. Plus stuff like Sex & the City.

This is a great point and it's something which has been bothering me for a while.

Love songs have practically vanished from popular culture. You can name the artists who still produce traditional love songs on one hand - Taylor Swift is the biggest one.

Songs sung by female vocalists these days almost go out of their way to *not* be about love. It's rare to hear a popular song about a girl falling for a guy. These used to be a staple of the music charts and what teenage girls listened to. Now they listen to girl anthems telling them to go out, get drunk, and slut it up.

Which is good for guys like us, but I think it shows something unhealthy about our culture.

[Glock]

This is exactly right. Morality is cyclical throughout history, although the cycle is often very long and spans more than one person's lifetime.

Societal change seem to be speeding up in the modern age. So, we may get to see the entire cycle play out before our eyes, from extremely restrictive morality to total permissiveness.

[speakeasy]

I think the biggest factor is supply and demand. In countries where men compete for women, such as the USA, women can slack off, not be feminine or charming, get fat, have high bitch shields and still be guaranteed to have no shortage of dudes hollering at them.

In places like EE, Latin America(maybe a bit less so) and SEA, women compete for men. Men there have the upper hand. Read a fascinating article once about the extreme competition Russian women face for men. That they basically accept a cheating husband as a part of the package. A Latvian woman once told me it's so bad there(for them) that her and her friends wouldn't even step out the front door to buy groceries without being prettied up. She found a husband eventually, in France. And of course she was thin, attractive and a sweetheart. When women must compete for men, they stay feminine and they learn how to keep a man.

It's supply and demand. The USA is a woman's version of SEA.

[Samseau]

(10-23-2013 10:10 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

I think the biggest factor is supply and demand. In countries where men compete for women, such as the USA, women can slack off, not be feminine or charming, get fat, have high bitch shields and still be guaranteed to have no shortage of dudes hollering at them.

In places like EE, Latin America(maybe a bit less so) and SEA, women compete for men. Men there have the upper hand. Read a fascinating article once about the extreme competition Russian women face for men. That they basically accept a cheating husband as a part of the package. A Latvian woman once told me it's so bad there(for them) that her and her friends wouldn't even step out the front door to buy groceries without being prettied up. She found a husband eventually, in France. And of course she was thin, attractive and a sweetheart. When women must compete for men, they stay feminine and they learn how to keep a man.

It's supply and demand. The USA is a woman's version of SEA.

Yes, but what creates the supply and demand? It's a combination of birth rates and male mortality rates. In EE males die in significant numbers due to alcoholism and/or crime. In SEA birthrates are quite high in many cultures, especially like Philippines (3 births to each women). These are the major cultural factors to look for.

[OkStudies]

(10-23-2013 10:10 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

I think the biggest factor is supply and demand. In countries where men compete for women, such as the USA, women can slack off, not be feminine or charming, get fat, have high bitch shields and still be guaranteed to have no shortage of dudes hollering at them.

In places like EE, Latin America(maybe a bit less so) and SEA, women compete for men. Men there have the upper hand. Read a fascinating article once about the extreme competition Russian women face for men. That they basically accept a cheating husband as a part of the package. A Latvian woman once told me it's so bad there(for them) that her and her friends wouldn't even step out the front door to buy groceries without being prettied up. She found a husband eventually, in France. And of course she was thin, attractive and a sweetheart. When women must compete for men, they stay feminine and they learn how to keep a man.

It's supply and demand. The USA is a woman's version of SEA.

Good point. But has'nt the USA had this "supply and demand" problem in the 80/90's when female attitudes were much better?

My theory is, female behavior is more dependant on male leadership than gender ratio's. It's not like women conciously care or know exactly how many men there are in comparison to women in a given area.

[iknowexactly]

(10-23-2013 11:33 AM)NomadofEU Wrote:  

(10-23-2013 08:46 AM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  

(10-23-2013 01:40 AM)OkStudies Wrote:  

What does the future look like? At the rate it's going, not good. Thoughts?

and us guys who will be older then will be longing for the good old days when game could get you laid.

Disagree.
The more chaste a woman is, the more feminine she is.

I don't know about that. In my view, healthy femininity involves SOME adventurousness, not total retiring submissive hysterical types.

A great woman is quite horny, wants to go out in nature, do something besides shop and "wear high heels" ( my pet peeve with the manosphere.)

She won't be a slut because she really falls in love, was trusting, and already got hurt by players, and doesn't want a repeat.

So ironically, my great fantasy woman is an eager, somewhat guilty masturbator.

[soup]

Sorry dude, highheels are always going to be sexier.

[bacan]

And then what caused generation Y values?

Take this line of thinking further..

I would respond to your list of values and say..

Those are all derivative symptoms of a much larger cause.

[Dalaran1991]

(10-23-2013 10:10 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

I think the biggest factor is supply and demand. In countries where men compete for women, such as the USA, women can slack off, not be feminine or charming, get fat, have high bitch shields and still be guaranteed to have no shortage of dudes hollering at them.

In places like EE, Latin America(maybe a bit less so) and SEA, women compete for men. Men there have the upper hand. Read a fascinating article once about the extreme competition Russian women face for men. That they basically accept a cheating husband as a part of the package. A Latvian woman once told me it's so bad there(for them) that her and her friends wouldn't even step out the front door to buy groceries without being prettied up. She found a husband eventually, in France. And of course she was thin, attractive and a sweetheart. When women must compete for men, they stay feminine and they learn how to keep a man.

It's supply and demand. The USA is a woman's version of SEA.

I don't think supply and demand is the important factor. As a Vietnamese who has lived 4 years in America and a year in France, I would say it's rather the cultural gender norms which translates into male assertiveness and female submissiveness.

Have a look at this list for all the countries by sex ratio. Look at the third column for 15-64 age group.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cou..._sex_ratio

US is surprisingly 1.00, meaning 1 guy for 1 girl. Which is on par with France surprisingly, though the women I see here are a shit ton more feminine and sweet (they are not easy though)

Poland and Russia where Roosh dream about has a lower rate, but not much lower, 0.99 for Poland (almost equal to the states) and 0.92 for Russia. However, the culture here is still much more old-school, the male are more aggressive and the women more submissive. In Russia they also have lots of military activities going on with their neighborhood and the country is constantly on guard, and so the masculine ideas of assertiveness and agression are alive and well. Which also lower the ratio.

As a Vietnamese I'm saying we DO NOT have it easier here. Asian girls do like foreign guys, so when you travel over here you might get easy lays, which makes you think these girls are sweeter and easier. Gosh, if you spend some time on Asian forums you will see how it's a big fucking mess. Guys are ultra betas, and girls are extra-materialistic. The damn irony is that the old "get a good job and make $" works to get girls here, but the girls are very materialistic and shallow. I stopped gaming in VN bc I can't have a decent conversation about travelling, cultures and history with VN girls, whereas in France and Germany the girls would be putting me on a scholarly exchange. The only "good" thing going here is that once you get the girl she's kinda become your possession. We have people stabbing/killing their gf/wives for cheating making the news every week. Same thing with China.

Asia and Europe is getting contaminated with Americanization. More and more girls are glued to their Iphones, dress like sex and the city and have multiple online dating profiles that supply them with a constant stream of validation.

I strongly believe that capitalism (coupled with materialism), individualism, modern technology and a lack of wars are the cause to the bitchy behaviors in girls. As I stroll across bars in France and Vietnam, I can see packs of French or Vietnamese girls acting straight out of an American Pie or Sex and the City episode, eating hamburgers, drinking beers and talk with their mouths full. At the same time I also find some very sweet and beautiful girls who has a brick phone from the stone age that she doesn't really use, enjoy wearing skirts and high heels and love saying "I'll follow you. Do what you want"

It's not going to last long. Stupid Hollywood and Apple is ruining the few good women we have. This is why a lot of dating gurus like Roosh is urging you to travel. Please, by all means do so, bc the rest of the world is getting contaminated with this shitty YOLO bitchy disease. I'm camping in Europe now and enjoying what little comfort I can still find, and it's mesmerizing.

[Bobco]

The chicks back in the 80's and 90's were as slutty as they are now, trust me on that.

[Vaun]

(04-02-2014 08:05 PM)Bobco Wrote:  

The chicks back in the 80's and 90's were as slutty as they are now, trust me on that.

I cant see how people would think otherwise, the moms I see now were chugging tequila, smoking and screwing all through high school, not even college yet.