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An American NIghtmare of "Imputed Income"
10-20-2013, 07:00 AM
The grand irony in all of this is that if a married man is unable to find work to support his family, everyone is so supportive. There are newspaper articles calling for help for the family, highlighting his tenaciousness and hard work, handouts and donations, etc.
If the man is divorced and can't find work, though, he is automatically a deadbeat loser who deserves to be raped in prison. It doesn't matter if his wife was a psycho who kicked him out and/or if he really can't find any work, he has to be the bad guy. In the west, the status "divorced" is like a giant laser dot painted on your chest upon a "please shoot me" sign.
I hope this shitty feminist civilization collapses soon so everyone can get back to their normal lives.
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An American NIghtmare of "Imputed Income"
10-20-2013, 07:04 AM
Sounds and looks a lot like slavery.
If only you knew how bad things really are.
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An American NIghtmare of "Imputed Income"
10-20-2013, 08:00 AM
Why is it that you can't be jailed for failing to pay a debt, but can be jailed for failing to pay alimony?
Isn't marriage just a contract like any other?
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An American NIghtmare of "Imputed Income"
10-20-2013, 09:11 AM
From my understanding, having skipped on some student loans when I moved abroad:
Debts are typically private and collected through agencies (unless its Federal; even most states use private agencies to collect), alimony/child support are enforced through the court system.
The most a debt collection agency can do is have your wages garnished to a maximum of $200-$300 per month, I think. It's a certain variable x the minimum wage. Withholding income tax is another option.
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An American NIghtmare of "Imputed Income"
10-20-2013, 09:31 AM
It's worse in family court. If you work a job and it's off the books or if you fail to show proof of income the judge will use salary.com as a basis for what someone with your job title in your area should be making and use it to calculate alimony and child support. I've seen it happen in court. That website always overinflates salaries.
Lose your job and receiving unemployment? The state doesn't care. They don't lower your payments. They still take the full amount from you every week. Good luck trying to cover rent on 60% of what you were making.
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An American NIghtmare of "Imputed Income"
10-20-2013, 09:51 AM
I am a bit extreme - in that I really don't have any sympathy for guys who get married, and then fucked in the divorce courts.
You are playing with fire when you get married - and if you get burned you can't say you were not warned.
But - am I going too far? Do you think guys deserve sympathy even though getting married in the west is idiotic?
It is hard to figure out how much I should care when guys are determined to make such shitty decisions. But I am a little extreme (I admit that) - so I am wondering if others take a less harsh view?
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An American NIghtmare of "Imputed Income"
10-20-2013, 03:15 PM
cardguy, it's not so much about this point of view being extreme or otherwise as about it being unrealistic.
Most men eventually want to get married and have a family. They're not wrong to want it, it's a very sensible way to structure one's life and most men eventually start feeling miserable when they're alone and don't have a female companion. If a marriage is halfway good, there are also the practical advantages of guaranteed sex, cooking, and not having to do all sorts of chores that men usually find tedious, and increasingly so as they get older. And of course most men eventually want to have children and pass their genes and knowledge to the next generation.
There are some men who are, by nature, confirmed bachelors but one would always do well to remember that it's a tiny minority. Even if you happen be part of that minority, don't lose sight of the fact the most men aren't and it's not wrong that they aren't, it's simply their nature.
So you can't just say that since everyone can see that marriage in the West has become a kind of nightmare -- which it has -- men should just accept it and GTOW (Go Their Own Way for you lurkers). It doesn't work like that, it's not like saying well landlines are obsolete so just use a cellphone or whatever. You're talking about a very fundamental human need. These things that make marriage such a nightmarish proposition are a real problem, and the men who have to suffer the consequences deserve every bit of our sympathy, and indeed, support.
same old shit, sixes and sevens Shaft...
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An American NIghtmare of "Imputed Income"
10-20-2013, 04:31 PM
Cardguy,
I had no idea how bad the laws are when I got married 10 years ago. I have gotten lucky because my marriage is strong and happy. But if had any idea back then the risks I was taking, I would not have done it.
Most guys just don't have a clue.
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An American NIghtmare of "Imputed Income"
10-20-2013, 06:00 PM
I didnt know the husband has to pay for his wifes divorce lawyer haha wow.
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An American NIghtmare of "Imputed Income"
10-20-2013, 06:26 PM
It's really just "peer pressure." It's the same thing as going to college and paying 60k a year for an art history degree because, "That's what everyone does." Yeah, I understand that there are structural differences to the two types of debt.
The powers that be want as much money as possible in the hands of women because they spend more money. Think about it. Probably 9 out of 10 advertisements on television are geared towards women. I think in order for this stuff to change, there needs to be more organized political activism and straight up lobbying. That's how laws get passed. There should be a Men's Bill of Rights, and organized voting on men's issues like women vote on abortion. I don't think like minded individuals like us taking steps to avoid being married will change anything.
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An American NIghtmare of "Imputed Income"
10-20-2013, 07:17 PM
Debtors' prisons are alive and well in the US.
They just call them by other, more genteel, names now than in the good ol' days.
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An American NIghtmare of "Imputed Income"
10-20-2013, 07:54 PM
Quote: (10-20-2013 07:39 PM)Menace Wrote:
Quote: (10-20-2013 06:16 PM)Merenguero Wrote:
Alimony is a court Order, so failure to pay alimony isn't just failure to pay a debt, but is also failure to obey a court Order. Since failure to pay alimony is a civil matter, the payor/debtor should always request a "purge provision" in order to avoid having to go to jail. A purge provision basically states that any jail sentence will be stayed if the person found in contempt pays a specific sum of money, often a very reasonable amount.
You know the imputed income thing is bogus, but I get the distinct impression that many people really have just sub-standard legal advice...and good legal advice can make all the difference in the world. Hell, I know of a partner in a law firm (who you would think is very savvy) that was screwed in MA on this type of thing due to poor work by his divorce attorney. Now, why it all has to be so complex is a different matter altogether. I'd be really interested in knowing what divorce proceedings are like in other countries.
This is where I was leaning as well. I am completely speculating but I wonder how many of these complete family court disasters are due to pro se representation or shitty lawyers. I think alot of crap or lazy lawyers practice family law because its easy and there are alot of clients. I interviewed 5 different lawyers before I found a family law laywer I liked, that seemed to give half a crap and know his stuff.
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An American NIghtmare of "Imputed Income"
10-20-2013, 08:18 PM
Quote: (10-20-2013 09:51 AM)cardguy Wrote:
I am a bit extreme - in that I really don't have any sympathy for guys who get married, and then fucked in the divorce courts.
You are playing with fire when you get married - and if you get burned you can't say you were not warned.
But - am I going too far? Do you think guys deserve sympathy even though getting married in the west is idiotic?
It is hard to figure out how much I should care when guys are determined to make such shitty decisions. But I am a little extreme (I admit that) - so I am wondering if others take a less harsh view?
I disagree with what you say. What about the men who got married before the internet? In the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s?
Who warned them?
I understand your sentiment - but still - you paint too many men with the same brush.
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An American NIghtmare of "Imputed Income"
10-20-2013, 09:54 PM
To me, it's pretty simple.
I don't think any man should be sent to prison for having no game. For being beta.
Any society that makes it a policy of enslaving and locking up men on account of debts to be paid, at the end of the day, because they did not make their wives wet anymore is going down the proverbial tubes.
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An American NIghtmare of "Imputed Income"
10-21-2013, 12:21 AM
As others have pointed out, the guys getting married may be too young and naive to know any better. Add to that the heavy social/family pressure to do the right thing and to "grow up or man up" ( God I loathe that expression with passion!) and you obtain a perfect candidate for the proverbial slaughter house that is the divorce/family court down the road.
However, with the manosphere spreading, more and more of men are being exposed to the cold ugly truth. So there is hope that this non sense will collapse on itself when fewer and fewer men are saying "I do".
For anyone who has a desire to have a family in a healthy environment the only viable option is to do so outside of the Anglosphere world and into countries which are traditional and male dominated like in SEA, South America or Africa. Getting married and having kids with a western woman in the western world, no matter how sweet, sexy and cool she may be, is simply akin to financial suicide.