[jtbabycarrots]

Hey Dusty, This tread is AMAZING. Is your book out???

[The Lizard of Oz]

(01-09-2014 02:39 AM)jtbabycarrots Wrote:  

Hey Dusty, This tread is AMAZING. Is your book out???

Yes -- Dusty's thread is AMAZING, that's the right word. Glad someone else realizes it!

This thread could greatly improve the lives of many people if they went through it post by post, ideally while reading the Ellis book, but even without it.

[Dusty]

(01-09-2014 02:39 AM)jtbabycarrots Wrote:  

Hey Dusty, This tread is AMAZING. Is your book out???

(01-09-2014 07:46 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

(01-09-2014 02:39 AM)jtbabycarrots Wrote:  

Hey Dusty, This tread is AMAZING. Is your book out???

Yes -- Dusty's thread is AMAZING, that's the right word. Glad someone else realizes it!

This thread could greatly improve the lives of many people if they went through it post by post, ideally while reading the Ellis book, but even without it.

Thanks guys!

You know in addition to accolades on this thread, I've gotten a few people who chose to contact me anonymously through PMs with heartfelt notes about how this thread has changed their lives. I've gotten PMs from guys saying they discovered this thread and sat at their PC for hours reading and digesting every word.

Those messages inspired me to get back to work on the book. I wrote a chapter the other day. I sat down for a few hours uninterrupted and it just flowed out of me. I wish it was that easy all the time! Doing this thread helped me think of a lot of new angles.

But the credit belongs to the late Albert Ellis for creating the REBT concepts (which then inspired CBT). I'm just standing on his shoulders and applying his work to modern day game.

I hope to release my book this year. I'm even thinking of sinking a couple grand of my own money into editing and layout to make it look completely professional, as this topic deserves. If I don't earn it back I'll be ok with that. I am most interested in creating a work I can be proud of and that some lucky souls will discover and change their lives with!

[Dusty]

I saw this article in the Wall Street Journal today and found it amusing. http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10...4120892036

The article talks about a "New Approach (which) Focuses on Helping People Regulate Their Emotions."

New approach? Albert Ellis has been talking about all of this since 1955, and all of this was written in a Guide to Rational Living which was written over 50 years ago!

I think every point in the excerpts below was mentioned somewhere in this thread. Don't prioritize the avoidance of discomfort over getting stuff done and living a full life, don't beat yourself up for your imperfections, break the inertia by at least getting started then things often get easier, replace unhelpful thoughts with helpful thoughts, don't be hypersensitive to disapproval or failure, weigh both the pros and cons of an action rather than focusing too much just on the cons, and dispensing with shame and self-loathing.

Nonetheless, I'm just glad the word gets out more and more, and people discover these techniques.

Excerpts:

Quote:

To Stop Procrastinating, Look to Science of Mood Repair

Increasingly, psychologists and time-management consultants are focusing on a new strategy: helping procrastinators see how attempts at mood repair are sabotaging their efforts and learn to regulate their emotions in more productive ways.

Time Travel: If you are rebelling against the feeling of having to work, try projecting yourself into the future. Imagine the good feelings you will have if you stop procrastinating and finish a project (or the bad feelings you will have if you don't finish).

'Just Get Started': If you are feeling frightened of possible failure, just get started. Tell yourself you don't have to do the whole project. Just do the first one or two steps on it.

Forgive Yourself: If you are feeling guilty about procrastinating, stop beating yourself up. Replace the negative thoughts with something more positive.

The new approach is based on several studies in the past two years showing that negative emotions can derail attempts at self-control. It fills a gap among established time-management methods, which stress behavioral changes such as adopting a new organizing system or doing exercises to build willpower.

She came across podcasts by Dr. Pychyl in 2012 and realized she was just trying to make herself feel better when she told herself she would feel more like tackling a task later. She says, "I am trying to run away from the feelings and avoid the discomfort"—the anxiety she often feels that her work won't be good enough or that someone will disapprove.

"Emotion is at the core," Ms. Chodos says. "Just knowing that gives me a little bit of fight, to say, 'Fine, I'm feeling discomfort, but I'm going to feel more discomfort later' " if the job is left undone.

Researchers have come up with a playbook of strategies to help procrastinators turn mood repair to their advantage. Some are tried-and-true classics: Dr. Pychyl advises procrastinators to "just get started, and make the threshold for getting started quite low."

Sean Gilbertson read an earlier book by Dr. Pychyl in 2012 after trying other time-management techniques such as keeping a daily log of his attitudes. The Minneapolis software engineer says the techniques didn't go deep enough to help him see how his emotions were blocking action and shift them in a more positive direction. Using the time-travel technique, he asks himself, "What negative things will happen if I procrastinate? Will it come up in my review? How will it affect my reputation? Will it affect my raise and bonuses?"

Most procrastinators beat themselves up even as they put things off, repeating negative thoughts such as, "Why can't I do what I should be doing?" or, "I should be more responsible," says Gordon Flett, a psychology professor at York University in Toronto. "That negative internal dialogue reflects concerns and doubts about themselves," Dr. Flett says.

One mood-repair strategy, self-forgiveness, is aimed at dispelling the guilt and self-blame. University freshmen who forgave themselves for procrastinating on studying for the first exam in a course procrastinated less on the next exam, according to a 2010 study led by Michael Wohl, an associate professor of psychology at Carleton.

[The Lizard of Oz]

(01-09-2014 11:51 PM)Dusty Wrote:  

You know in addition to accolades on this thread, I've gotten a few people who chose to contact me anonymously through PMs with heartfelt notes about how this thread has changed their lives. I've gotten PMs from guys saying they discovered this thread and sat at their PC for hours reading and digesting every word.

This is a big deal. Really, stop and think about how amazing that is. The work you put in is changing people's lives for the better in a serious way.

(01-09-2014 11:51 PM)Dusty Wrote:  

I hope to release my book this year. I'm even thinking of sinking a couple grand of my own money into editing and layout to make it look completely professional, as this topic deserves. If I don't earn it back I'll be ok with that. I am most interested in creating a work I can be proud of and that some lucky souls will discover and change their lives with!

Excellent. You should definitely make sure the book is impeccably edited. No typos, no grammar or spelling errors, clarity and coherence throughout. Nice and attractive layout. Especially for someone who is not already a credentialed professional, this will make all the difference between it being well-received or completely overlooked. If there is any hint of amateurism in the external presentation, or the book is rife with obvious misspellings etc, then all the valuable content will be for naught because people just won't take it seriously. So this is a necessity if you want it to have a real impact and be successful and possibly profitable.

[Screwston]

Damn this thread is to much to read on my phone. I'm not even sure what the book is about but I'm just going to see if a library has it. Does he have a book out about approaching girls?

[Dusty]

(01-14-2014 07:06 AM)houston Wrote:  

Damn this thread is to much to read on my phone. I'm not even sure what the book is about but I'm just going to see if a library has it. Does he have a book out about approaching girls?

Houston

It's a psychology book about managing ones emotions by thinking more logically and fact based. I think being the master of your emotions is essential for game. To me , this is the best inner game book out there.

The author revolutionized psychotherapy in the creating of REBT which them led to the creation of CBT.

No he does not have a book on approaching girls. But I always get a kick knowing how Ellis revolutionized psychotherapy - it all started when he was a horny as fuck teenager and he developed techniques on himself to conquer his approach anxiety while he day gamed.

[Giovonny]

(01-14-2014 11:20 AM)Dusty Wrote:  

he developed techniques on himself to conquer his approach anxiety while he day gamed.

What techniques did he use to conquer his approach anxiety???

Thanks Dusty!

[Dusty]

(01-14-2014 02:08 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(01-14-2014 11:20 AM)Dusty Wrote:  

he developed techniques on himself to conquer his approach anxiety while he day gamed.

What techniques did he use to conquer his approach anxiety???

Thanks Dusty!

Gio

A lot of what I discussed in this thread. Forcing himself into uncomfortable situations until he was desensitized to them. Changing his core philosophies. Seeing that rejection is not that big a deal, knowing that his self worth is intrinsic and not dependent on the approval of others, not deifying the opinion of girls and so on.

I'll try to find a quote from him.

He was 19 when he started transforming himself. He was influenced by the ancient stoic philosophers and behavioral psychology.

Later when he became a psychologist he found that Freudian psychoanalysis didn't work and how he conquered approach anxiety could be generalized to his clients problems. He created rebt which begat cbt which is now the leading therapeutic approach to psychotherapy.

[Dusty]

by Eric Disco
May 24
It was the summer of 1933 and Albert Ellis had a problem: He could not talk to women.
And he was quite angry at himself about it.
Albert Ellis loved psychology. He studied it a lot. He would later go on to become one of the most influential psychotherapists in history, among Carl Rogers and Sigmund Freud (Wikipedia).
But in 1933, Albert Ellis was quite angry at himself because he could not talk to women.
“I was born and reared to be shy and scared.” says Ellis of his upbringing. “Throughout my childhood and teens I had a real social phobia.
“I viewed public speaking as a fate worse than public masturbation. I opened my physically large mouth only among a group of my close friends. I avoided telling jokes for fear of flubbing the punch lines.
“I said nothing, literally nothing, about my feelings for the pretty young girls that I kept falling madly–in fact, obsessively-compulsively–in love with. As for approaching any of the young women I immoderately lusted after from the age of twelve onward, forget it! I heard and saw nothing but ‘evil and ‘horrible’ rejection–so I kept my big trap shut. In spite of my deranged passion for everything in skirts, up to the age of twenty my dating amounted to zero. Yes, nothing, nil, none, zero.”
Ellis’s social phobia struck noticeably when he was around women. He had a clear idea of what he needed to do, but could not bring himself to do it.
In a familiar tone, he beat himself up for his inability to take action. In a sense, knowing what he needed to do made it worse.
“I knew I was scared witless and from reading and my observations of my more popular male friends, I even knew what to do about it–take risks. I didn’t. I decided to–and didn’t. I almost began to–and froze.
“Naturally, I beat myself for all this evasion. I knew what I wanted–and I knew that I was copping out. So I castigated myself for, first, avoiding “dangerous” social situations. For, second, feeling desperately anxious and stubbornly refusing to go through the pain of overcoming it.
“I even put myself down for the efforts I made to overcome my social phobias. I read many articles and books on psychology and philosophy, particularly from the age of 16 onward.”
Based on his readings of early behaviorists, Ellis decided to first try to overcome his public speaking phobia through deconditioning. He anxiously and painfully gave speeches.
Ellis discovered that firstly “he didn’t die.” And that his anxiety soon began to wear off. He found that, by doing it enough times, he was able to speak in public–and was quite good at it.
But this wasn’t the most important prize.
“What is more important to me than public speaking?” he said to himself. “What do I really want to do that I’m completely avoiding doing? Obviously: approaching the 101% of women that I lust after and want to mate with. I’d even like to marry a few of them! But what am I going to do about that?”
Ellis lived near the Bronx Botanical Gardens, which he describes as “one of the loveliest places in New York.” His normal course of action had been to go to the park and sit on a bench a few feet away from a woman on another bench.
“But no matter how much I told myself the time was ripe to approach,” says Ellis, “I soon copped out and walked away, cursing myself for my abysmal cowardice. I knew, of course, especially after overcoming my public speaking panic, that I wouldn’t die of rejection. But I still felt much too uncomfortable to try even a single approach.
“During the summer of 1933, when I was on vacation from college about to go back for my final year, I gave myself a historic homework assignment that greatly changed my own life–and in some ways changed the history of psychotherapy.
“I spoke to myself very strongly. ¡ÆLook!’ I said. ¡ÆYou forced yourself to get over the horror of making public speeches and now you’re goddamned good at doing that. You actually enjoy it! So why not do the same with your silly terror of pick up women? No nonsense! Do, don’t stew!’
“My assignment to myself was simple. I would go to the Bronx Botanical Gardens every day when it wasn’t raining in the month of July; would look for women sitting alone on park benches; and, instead of sitting a bench away, as I always anxiously did, would sit on the same bench with them. Not in their lap–but on the same goddamned bench. I would then give myself one minute–one lousy minute!–to talk to each one of them. No debate, no caviling, no nonsense!! If they bit me, they bit me! One lousy minute!
“That was a very wise homework assignment that I gave myself. For I was knowingly risking failure and rejection; and I was doing what was most uncomfortable for me to do. Moreover, I was giving myself no time to procrastinate about trying, no time to ruminate and thereby to build up my worrying.
“Well, I forthrightly did it. I went to the park every day in July and found–count ¡Æem!–130 women sitting alone on the park bench: All manners, shapes and sizes. Certainly enough to provide me with reasonable excuses–that they were too young, too old, too short, or too tall to talk to. But I allowed myself no excuse whatsoever–none! I sat next to all of them–the entire 130.
“I found that 30 of them immediately waltzed away. They rejected me before I even got going! But, I said to myself, strongly, ¡ÆThat’s okay. That leaves me a sample of an even hundred–good for research purposes!’
“So I continued my research. I spoke to the entire hundred of these women, and within one lousy minute! About the birds, the bees, the flowers, the trees, their knitting, their reading–about anything and everything. Mind you, I had never done this a single time before. But I was determined! On to the fray!
Ellis was successful that month. But not in the way one would guess.
“For out of the hundred women I talked to, I was finally able to make only one date–and she didn’t show up! But I found, empirically, that nothing terrible happened. No one took a butcher knife and cut my balls off. No one vomited and ran away. No one called a cop. In fact, I had a hundred pleasant conversations, and began to get quite good at talking to strange women in strange places. So good, in fact, that for my second hundred subjects I became more persuasive, and was able to make three different dates with women. None of whom, fortunately, I married.
“Once again, as happened with my public speaking, I was able to make a 180-degree change. For the rest of my life I have been able to talk to women whenever I wish to do so–on planes, trains, elevators, park benches–you name it! And with one of these pickups I actually did live for a while!” (The Albert Ellis Reader, 1998)

[Giovonny]

^^^ Wow! Thanks Dusty!

That the exact same strategy I used!

Just forced myself to approach until the fear started to melt away!

De-program and Re-program the mind!

Awesome

[Dusty]

Here's Ellis giving an hour and 25 minute lecture on anxiety (worry). I got about 20 minutes into it so far and it seems pretty good. I like what one of the Youtube commentators says about it:

Quote:

Ellis shouting obscenities like a lawn sprinkler while dropping truth bombs.

[Dusty]

I saw this on Heartiste today (Roissy). Has he been reading this thread?

Quote:

Ultimately, the alpha attitude of outcome independence rests on a foundation of behavioral indifference to rejection. Rejection inoculation, you could say. If you worry excessively about being rejected by a girl, you'll always struggle to unlock any alpha male potential within you. Of course, no man likes to be rejected by a girl he desires, not even naturals, but the idea is not the elimination of distaste for rejection. Rather, the aim is to accept rejection as the collateral damage of pickup, a necessary burden, and to stop beating yourself up over it.

Think of rejection like a sudden downpour, or a deus ex machina. It happens, you let it pass, you carry on. You don't pretend to like it, but neither do you bellyache and take disproportionate, self-defeating measures to avoid it. It's a fleeting nuisance that has no bearing on your attitude or your ambitions. Each rejection then becomes a victim of your cavalier dismissal, which, when compounded, strengthens your immunity to emotional disturbances caused by future rejections. And a funny thing happens when you start to think this way... you experience less rejection.

[MrStinky]

This thread is epic! Subbed so I can read through it later

[Steve9]

A couple of great quotes from Dr. Ellis :

"All humans are out of their fucking minds...Every single one of them."

When somebody says "fuck you," he responds, "No, unfuck you; fucking's a good thing!"

[birdie num num]

Thanks for posting this thread, Dusty, and for all the work that you put into it. It compelled me to check out a few old library cassette tape interviews of Dr. Ellis and to listen to his YouTube videos.

To me, Ellis' concepts reinforce the idea of mindfulness, or being self-aware. I'm now on guard and aware whenever negative talk enters my mind. In the past, negative self-talk would be the start of a downward spiral of self-defeatist thinking and avoiding action. Past opportunities were missed because I anticipated some horrible scenario created in my head. Had I acted, those scenarios probably would not have happened. And if something bad did happen, well, so what? It wouldn't have killed me or made me a bad person.

Now I'll notice negative thoughts and realize that they're just garbage passing through my head and they have no basis in reality. It's as if you are standing on the bank a river and observing flotsam pass downstream.

Negative thoughts will never go away. But you can be observant when they do arrive and then destroy them with logic and rational thought.

[Dusty]

(04-13-2014 06:17 PM)birdie num num Wrote:  

Thanks for posting this thread, Dusty, and for all the work that you put into it. It compelled me to check out a few old library cassette tape interviews of Dr. Ellis and to listen to his YouTube videos.

To me, Ellis' concepts reinforce the idea of mindfulness, or being self-aware. I'm now on guard and aware whenever negative talk enters my mind. In the past, negative self-talk would be the start of a downward spiral of self-defeatist thinking and avoiding action. Past opportunities were missed because I anticipated some horrible scenario created in my head. Had I acted, those scenarios probably would not have happened. And if something bad did happen, well, so what? It wouldn't have killed me or made me a bad person.

Now I'll notice negative thoughts and realize that they're just garbage passing through my head and they have no basis in reality. It's as if you are standing on the bank a river and observing flotsam pass downstream.

Negative thoughts will never go away. But you can be observant when they do arrive and then destroy them with logic and rational thought.

[Giovonny]

(04-13-2014 06:17 PM)birdie num num Wrote:  

Negative thoughts will never go away. But you can be observant when they do arrive and then destroy them with logic and rational thought.

Once you are able to do it with logic, try doing it with intuition.

You dont always have to think your way thru it, just trust that you are okay.

Your thoughts only reflect your minds opinion. They are not reality.

Negative thoughts might not ever go away but the can be minimized greatly and ignored strategically.

[Screwston]

Is there a list of must read RVF books?

[Dusty]

(04-16-2014 01:22 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 06:17 PM)birdie num num Wrote:  

Negative thoughts will never go away. But you can be observant when they do arrive and then destroy them with logic and rational thought.

Once you are able to do it with logic, try doing it with intuition.

You dont always have to think your way thru it, just trust that you are okay.

Your thoughts only reflect your minds opinion. They are not reality.

Negative thoughts might not ever go away but the can be minimized greatly and ignored strategically.

That's often what I do.

When I feel unhelpful emotions coming on, I know intuitively that the emotion is not legitimate and it's based on some faulty thinking. Often times that's enough to stop that emotion. I don't have to bother figuring out what the faulty logic is.

This is especially helpful for anger. There's little need to get overly angry.

Most people look nuts when they are in a rage It's because we intuitively know that emotion is based on crazy thinking.

[kbell]

Ellis doesn't say to get rid of emotion entirely though. Just be more rational about it. I'm on page 90 now. What words do you use instead of awful, terrible, and horrible?

[The Lizard of Oz]

(04-17-2014 08:50 PM)kbell Wrote:  

Ellis doesn't say to get rid of emotion entirely though. Just be more rational about it. I'm on page 90 now. What words do you use instead of awful, terrible, and horrible?

1. SUCH 2. FUCKING 3. BULLSHIT!

[Dusty]

(04-17-2014 08:50 PM)kbell Wrote:  

Ellis doesn't say to get rid of emotion entirely though. Just be more rational about it. I'm on page 90 now. What words do you use instead of awful, terrible, and horrible?

It depends on the situation. But using "awful" and "horrible" is almost always an exaggeration of what is happening, and then that often results in exaggerated emotions.

If a girl I like a lot rejects me, and I think it's horrible and awful, I might lie around depressed for a week, or go into a rage.

If I think of it as 'unfortunate' instead, I can more quickly get to a 'next!' frame of mind.

"Horrible" might feel like an accurate way to describe this girls rejection. But if I think about it, things like the holocaust and 9/11 are described as "horrible" and I know this girl's rejection cannot compare to those things, so yes I am exaggerating.

The words and sentences you use in your head become your "reality." So careful what kind of "reality" you create.

How do you like the book?

[kbell]

Its good. However it might be great not sure yet. I do have some trouble with the way he writes, his prose is a little hard to read for me. There are parts where he rambles and I lose focus of his point. When he talks about clients its great though. I like when he was talking about the 23 year old woman and figures out her problem pretty quickly. No PC bullshit. Words like inconvenience seem odd to use on a daily basis. Sometimes when I read passages I'm thinking he will mention how it effects ego or using the term such as over generalization or all or nothing thinking.

I do think the REBT and CBT can be used together if you avoid terrible words when writing down negative thoughts in a ACR journal (automatic thoughts, cognitive distortion, rational response). I'm sure there is much more. Burns book was easier to read and some concepts easier, but recognizing negative words might be easier to implement on hourly basis than carrying a journal around all the time.

[Dusty]

(04-17-2014 09:28 PM)kbell Wrote:  

Its good. However it might be great not sure yet. I do have some trouble with the way he writes, his prose is a little hard to read for me. There are parts where he rambles and I lose focus of his point. When he talks about clients its great though. I like when he was talking about the 23 year old woman and figures out her problem pretty quickly. No PC bullshit. Words like inconvenience seem odd to use on a daily basis. Sometimes when I read passages I'm thinking he will mention how it effects ego or using the term such as over generalization or all or nothing thinking.

I do think the REBT and CBT can be used together if you avoid terrible words when writing down negative thoughts in a ACR journal (automatic thoughts, cognitive distortion, rational response). I'm sure there is much more. Burns book was easier to read and some concepts easier, but recognizing negative words might be easier to implement on hourly basis than carrying a journal around all the time.

Yeah, Ellis is not a great writer. He was born in like 1917 or something, so his word choices might sound funny to people from a different generation. Go with what works for you. I like Giovanny's way to describe how he feels about a rejection - - "next!' -- for example. It sure helps you have better emotions than "that rejection is horrible and awful!"

REBT is more than just avoiding "bad words" though. You are encouraged to do some deep thinking, and arrive with new personal philosophies at your core - like not basing your self worth on how any person relates to you or any other condition.