rooshvforum.network is a fully functional forum: you can search, register, post new threads etc...
Old accounts are inaccessible: register a new one, or recover it when possible. x


The Office: Michael Scott & The Concept Of Shame
#1

The Office: Michael Scott & The Concept Of Shame

[Image: the-office-011.jpg]

The Office, for those who have been living under a rock this past decade, is an American TV show that was originally created in Britain. The American version differs from the original, but I have only seen a handful of the British episodes, so I will not comment on that and that is also beyond the scope of this writeup.

The Office, itself, opens itself to much interpretation. The Ribbon Farm has an absolute must-read of posts analyzing power relations in the modern workplace through the lens of the The Office. However, for my purposes here, I wish to talk about Michael Scott, as he is a perfect example of a narcissist - a person who feels no guilt, only shame.

[Image: ms_main_left.jpg]

Michael Scott, for the first eight seasons, the regional manager of a mid-size paper distributing company. He clearly had a traumatic childhood. While such narcissism is always born out of a childhood not lived, consider a few points that reinforce my perception. First, is his appearance on a TV show for kids. His younger self said his dream was to have 100 kids so nobody can say no to being his friend. He seems to think that childhood is necessarily limited by the parent's wishes, which is not healthy. Further, he is admitting he isn't not getting the positive emotional reassurances at home. Second, consider the taped footage of his mother's marriage to Jeff. In the clip, when bringing something down the aisle, he screams, "I HATE YOU" and storms off. He is wetting his pants the entire time. Clearly, this situation reminded of very traumatic experiences that can only be speculated on. Still, if I was to hazard a guess, his original father was an abuser and he saw his mother was betraying him for marrying another one of those people with penises.

Back on point, Michael Scott displays a great level of delusion about who he is and the appropriate behavior to display in society. He never displays genuine sympathy or empathy, as it is always tied to advancing his personal delusions or to show off to others. He has extremely low self-esteem and has his delusions punctured very easily and slips in narcissistic depression with frightening regularity. He also possesses the ability to turn women into compensatory narcissists and transform himself in a pseudo-codependent while still having a eerie sense of straight-up narcissism. The fact the whole show is supposedly a documentary reinforces the narcissism of the workplace and Michael Scott.

Before considering some examples of how guilt and shame, consider the differences of guilt and shame. Guilt, properly felt, is a feeling about things you have actually done (to others). Shame, however, is a feeling about who you are, your identity. For example, let's say a man forgets to pick a friend up from work and it forces them to miss a date with an attractive woman. The guilt-based person would apologize to the person and feel bad because he hurt a friend. A shame-based person would think "I am such a bad person!" and need public reassurance they aren't a bad person from the person they harmed. The guilt-based person would try to own up to their misdeeds and try to rectify the situation with good acts - i.e. buy his friend a case of beer he loves or personally call the woman and convince her that is was his fault, not his friend's, that she was stood up. The shame-based person will seek avenues to avoid personal culpability - downplaying the bad act (she was probably a bitch), blaming them (you know how unreliable I am!) or ignoring the situation (dodging his calls or texts).

Guilt-based people are healthy. People should want to atone for their bad acts with commensurate good acts. Shame-based people are immature psychologically. While every personality disorder has shame-based impulses, narcissism is the one that expressly discloses any ability to feel guilt, only shame. You want to know which you are? Do something bad in private that nobody knows about. If you have no feelings, you a narcissist who only experiences shame. If you feel something, then there is some hope for you.

Shame-based approaches are born out of childhood approaches to criticism or lack of boundaries. Kids subject to intense, withering criticism as a child develop a complex that they are either 100% good or 100% bad. Recall that every child is a narcissist, which is why we tend to put the gloves when critiquing a child because we implicitly recognize they take criticism 100% personally as an attack on their identity as a whole. Also, kids who are never disciplined develop the same complexes. Kids who are unschooled, receive "participation ribbons" or who are born to parents who let them do whatever they want never mature beyond the emotional level of a child. Children need boundaries set by those who love them unconditionally and are intimately based out of that child's best interest and personality.

[Image: train.png]

Reconsidering Michael Scott, he displays this greatly. Recall the season 3 episode in which Michael and Dwight travel to the paper convention with Jim and his new boss. At the end, when Michael's party fails and he broods in a narcissist depression, Jim visits and calms him down. Michael was jealous of Jim's rapport with his new boss. Notice at the end when he calms down, he refers to Jim as "Best Friends Forever." See the black and white approaches to relationships? Jim realizes he is dealing with an emotional child, so he treats him as such.

[Image: 2thedundies4.jpg]

In fact, the rest of the office - outside Dwight - recognize this. While his antics are outrageous and often offensive, you can't really treat him badly because you realize he is, at this heart, an emotional child. When Michael hosts the Dundies in season 2, he is heckled by a group of people (hecklers are narcissists, too). He feels a great amount of shame as they puncture his personal concept of being a comedic genius. He doesn't really need anybody to validate that, as long as he can perform, he will invent approval in his head.

In that same episode, as the Ribbon Farm posts have identified, this in episode in which you see Jim flirting with the idea of becomes a sociopath - I would call it a narcissist with real accomplishments. He successfully reads and manipulates Michael early in the episode and prevents him from hurting Pam emotionally about her failed relationship (engagement) with Roy. Jim does this by telling Michael that his long-running joke about "longest engagement" is lazy comedy. He spurs Michael to do something different because Jim punctured his self-identity as as comedic genius.

Let's consider a few more scenes that flesh out the contours of shame-based behavior. Michael once makes an incredibly dismissive and flippant remark about Dwight crying on New Year's Eve when it started to snow at midnight while watching one of Dwight's favorite movies. In private, Michael exhibits a complete lack of feelings about somebody. I can't recall the exact scene, but I believe Jim says that pretty insensitive to mock Dwight for that. Michael backtracks and calls Dwight's movie "stupid." See the shame-based approach here? Michael feels nothing with no audience to see his flippant dismissal of a friend and when confronted publically about it he downplays his rejection of Dwight.

Now, making fun of Dwight is one thing, but a guilt-based person would feel a bit bad that a friend had such a sad emotional reaction to something. Sure, if Dwight was my friend I would razz him about it, but if he's your friend, you care about his emotional state. Rudely ignoring him is not what a good person does.

[Image: the-office-gaydar_l.jpg]

Quite possibly the best episode to talk about is season 3's opener, "Gay Witch Hunt." In this episode, Michael jokingly refers to Oscar as "faggy." Toby confronts Michael and tells him Oscar was offended because he is gay. Michael is asked to keep this a secret as Oscar does not want his coworkers to know. A guilt-based person knows that they would feel bad if they disrespected Oscar's wishes, would apologize to them in private and move on. If Michael had done that, Oscar would have respected Michael. That is not what happens.

Michael does apologize to Oscar, but does it in a self-aggrandizing way and only in semi-private. Oscar accepts Michael's insincere apology only because he is worried about being outed. Michael doesn't stop because he knows homosexuality can bring get attention into somebody's life. He has Dwight research gay porn on his computer and it results in a very psychologically unhealthy and embarrassing, for Oscar, office meeting.

As is seen, most people don't give a shit. I wouldn't be surprised some homosexuals were upset at this (if they notice) because it means most people, today, just don't care who you have sex with. Pam is interested in hearing about Oscar's sexuality, but at the moment his biggest problem is Michael. Michael formerly outs Oscar, narcissistically thinking Oscar will love the attention, whether positive or negative. See the projection here? If Michael was gay, he would prefer worship for being gay, but would accept hatred if it means avoiding indifference.

Oscar comes out and in the intervening events, shuts Michael down badly, calling him "ignorant, offensive and small." Michael immediately engages in the shame-based defense mechanism of narcissistic depression. Oscar realizes that Michael had no malicious intentions, just self-absorbed ones. He engages in guilt-based acts right afterward. Oscar softens his tone, proffers a genuine apology and offers Michael a hug. Michael then tries to self-aggrandize with kissing Oscar but he realizes that doesn't work for him, for obvious reasons.

I really should have posted this way back in May or June when I was doing my first posts on narcissism and codependency. However, the takeaway lesson is that guilt-based approaches are mature and shame-based ones are not. Guilt-based people don't consider failures to speak to their entire identity, while shame-based people do. Shame-based people are children emotionally and that results from poor parenting of many stripes. Guilt-based people are worried about the effect of their actions on others, shame-based people are worried about their identity, especially as seen by others.

Quote:Old Chinese Man Wrote:  
why you wonder how many man another man bang? why you care who bang who mr high school drama man
Reply
#2

The Office: Michael Scott & The Concept Of Shame

PLEASE comment on this thread, I reported the other thread to be deleted, so if you comment on it, your comment will be deleted.

Quote:Old Chinese Man Wrote:  
why you wonder how many man another man bang? why you care who bang who mr high school drama man
Reply
#3

The Office: Michael Scott & The Concept Of Shame

i never liked the office, you should do a write up on big bang theory and how it just reeks of blue pill cringe moments not to mention the vast decline in looks with regards to penny. if there was ever proof that women peaked early look at 8 simple rules where she was her hottest.
Reply
#4

The Office: Michael Scott & The Concept Of Shame

Reposting from other thread:
First off, thanks for the write up. I've found that the office has many different sociological concepts well highlighted in this show.

But I have a question for you since you spent a lot of time on narcissists, what do you do about them? You cant avoid them since they make up much of America, especially women. So the issue would be to get someone from a narcissistic behaviour set to a less narcissistic one.

I've talked with psychologists and they've told me the hardest people to treat are narcissists since they cant admit they have a problem. As you mention, to admit a problem means they would feel 100% bad about themselves. And since they can't acknowledge they have a problem, they can never really work on fixing it.

I feel something powerfully externally would have to cripple their self-identity and that would be only way for them to just begin to consider there is someone wrong. But even then, most cases, narcissists will just double down on their psychological defenses. Hence, hamster rationalization of their poor decisions.

It seems to me the best strategy to deal with narcissists is preventing people from becoming ones in the first place since once they start using this set of psychological defenses, it's pretty impenetrable to change.

PS: as a fellow dyslexic, I sometimes print my stuff out to insure that i don't have too many typos but do i understand that means it takes a crap load more time.
Reply
#5

The Office: Michael Scott & The Concept Of Shame

The irony is that Jim, while being the most mentally stable person on the show, always seems like a smug asshole. I suspect a key to effective sit coms is having cluster b personality disorders as the main characters in order to drive the plot. Seinfeld excelled at this with three narcissists and a psychopath, having Kramer goad one of the others into an antisocial action and then we get to watch as the narcissistic George, Elaine, or Jerry make the situation worse by trying to deflect blame.
Reply
#6

The Office: Michael Scott & The Concept Of Shame

Quote: (10-01-2013 12:08 AM)pheonix500000 Wrote:  

... not to mention the vast decline in looks with regards to penny. if there was ever proof that women peaked early look at 8 simple rules where she was her hottest.

This.
8 Simple rules Kaley Cuoco is superb. 8th year of BBT Kaley Cuoco starting to really feel the heat of the wall.

On a similar point, I was flipping through the channels tonight and paused on How I met Your Mother. I hadn't seen this show in years. I was stunned at how awful the redhead looked. Seriously old looking even in caked on makeup. And the brunette, who was terrific in the early seasons, was fading too. Still has a great body, but had that sunken in mid-30's woman look.
Reply
#7

The Office: Michael Scott & The Concept Of Shame

Old school RoK post that has a video that represents a female Michael Scott that, admittedly, is much less functional than Michael Scott: http://www.returnofkings.com/704/is-this...-the-world

Quote:Old Chinese Man Wrote:  
why you wonder how many man another man bang? why you care who bang who mr high school drama man
Reply
#8

The Office: Michael Scott & The Concept Of Shame

The explanation of guilt vs. shame reactions was helpful. It reminds me of the saying 'You only feel bad because you got caught' or of women who cry when they are busted for doing something stupid but feel no need to make amends for it.

These posts are too heavy for scanning during my workday but are worthwhile when I have a few minutes to read.

Why do the heathen rage and the people imagine a vain thing? Psalm 2:1 KJV
Reply
#9

The Office: Michael Scott & The Concept Of Shame

Quote: (10-01-2013 02:36 AM)BortimusPrime Wrote:  

The irony is that Jim, while being the most mentally stable person on the show, always seems like a smug asshole. I suspect a key to effective sit coms is having cluster b personality disorders as the main characters in order to drive the plot. Seinfeld excelled at this with three narcissists and a psychopath, having Kramer goad one of the others into an antisocial action and then we get to watch as the narcissistic George, Elaine, or Jerry make the situation worse by trying to deflect blame.

Kramer wasn't a psychopath. He was certainly delusional and an oddball.

Maybe you mean newman is a psychopath? That is a total possibility.

My biggest problem with seinfeld(spoilers) was when george's fiance dies from licking too many envelopes, he is overjoyed because he wanted a way out of the wedding and elaine and jerry are just 'meh whatever"

I liked the UK version of the office better. The usa version was more of an ensemble, and a very good show, and had some great episodes. But I lost interest in season 4 when jim and pam finally started dating and the sexual tension was gone from the show.
Reply
#10

The Office: Michael Scott & The Concept Of Shame

Pam became really annoying after she got with Jim.

I love the UK and US versions. You can't compare them really - they are very different styles.
Reply
#11

The Office: Michael Scott & The Concept Of Shame

I noticed a funny thing after I became "red pill" aware. Certain shows became hard to watch and the American version of The Office was one. I think it's because of the way all the male characters were portrayed, mostly very weak. (Also the show was running out of steam by then.)

There was one "alpha" character I recall and that was James Spader playing Robert California. It was rather funny how he dominated and intimidated everyone with his presence.

If only you knew how bad things really are.
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)