[BoneDaddy]

(08-16-2013 10:51 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Too bad rivelino got clipped.

For the people that have done this ie BoneDaddy etc:

What are the odds that the Model comes with an "escort" or friend ie boyfriend etc?

Is it common or rare?

Any ways that you lessen the chances?

Hey G,

That definitely can be an issue. In my experience it runs about 50/50 as to those who want to bring someone with them vs. coming to the shoot alone.

Most photographers are pretty blunt about not allowing escorts, and for good reason. Having some unknown interloper wandering around your crib while you're trying to shoot is beyond annoying.

In the past I've tended to not screen hard against it, but I tend to drop contact with the ones who have brought escorts. Going forward, I plan to disallow escorts altogether.

As far as escort mitigation techniques, I think inviting them for a first shoot at a public, outdoor location, with a follow-up at my place a day or two later to review the images and do a follow-up shoot in studio is the way I'm going to roll.

Bone

[thegmanifesto]

Bone -

Do you usually talk with them over the phone before shooting?

I am thinking a phone call could be a good rapport builder and lessen the need for an escort.

Thoughts?

Also, if you are going to pay a girl to shoot, what about having an in-person meeting/interview before hand to build rapport and also make sure you get along with.

Thoughts?

Or are these girls so flakey that it would just complicate the whole situation?

Also, have you ever paid girls to shoot with? What do you usually pay?

Also, when you have had escorts come, are they usually a boyfriend? I could see that being common, but obviously I am not sure. That would pretty much blow the whole vibe I would think.

[StudebacherHoch]

Dedicated full-frame guy - been shooting with Nikon DSLRs since the D2h (currently shooting with the full-frame D3x, with a (non full-frame) D2x as a backup) and a quiver of nice glass including the 85mm portrait, 70-200mm VR, 16mm fish, etc. I shoot landscapes, surfing/skating/snowboarding & progressive rock/jazz concert photography. I got tired of blowhards carping on "Nikon vs. Canon, mine's mo' better!!" And, I love the look of the DV out of the Canon, and want to do time-lapse landscape films on a slider...so I bought a full Canon rig in June. 5d Mark III, 70-200 for concerts, 16-35 for landscapes, 35 & 50mm primes, and a Sigma 50-500 with a 2x teleconverter. Now when some snarky Canon shooter asks which camp I'm in, I say "both, bitch!"

I must say after two months of casual shooting...I love that 5d! I'm packing both full-framers for Spain next month, and I bet the Nikon will stay in the bag much of the time!

[BoneDaddy]

Hey G, much obliged for the rep. I've replied below:

(08-16-2013 11:37 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Do you usually talk with them over the phone before shooting?

I am thinking a phone call could be a good rapport builder and lessen the need for an escort.
Thoughts?

Yes, I always get them on the phone before the shoot and have a conversation about their past modeling experience, what kind of looks are they wanting to shoot, what are the looking to accomplish with their modeling, etc. Most of these chicks have a near-zero chance of any kind of "modeling" career, but I humor then and never make light of their aspirations. This definitely helps build comfort and rapport and they seem to appreciate being taken seriously.

(08-16-2013 11:37 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Also, if you are going to pay a girl to shoot, what about having an in-person meeting/interview before hand to build rapport and also make sure you get along with.

Thoughts?

I have never paid a girl to shoot, but I have had a couple of pre-shoot meetups for coffee. As with the pre-shoot phone call I think this can help build comfort. Even so, I'm tending toward setting up an informal outdoor shoot in a public location because I think that's even more effective. Getting these chicks in front of the camera and directing them with regard to posing, etc., establishes compliance and builds trust.

(08-16-2013 11:37 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Or are these girls so flakey that it would just complicate the whole situation?

Also, have you ever paid girls to shoot with? What do you usually pay?

Also, when you have had escorts come, are they usually a boyfriend? I could see that being common, but obviously I am not sure. That would pretty much blow the whole vibe I would think.

Interestingly, I get less flakes with these girls in the context of setting up photo shoots than I do with girls that I meet in more typical day/night game settings.

As noted above, I have never paid a girl to shoot. From a purely photographic standpoint, it would probably make sense to do so, as one could attract girls with more modeling experience. While I enjoy making photographs, I'm quite happy with the quality of the girls I can get to shoot on trade, and they definitely pass the boner test.

When the girl does show up with an escort, its almost invariably a thuggish borefriend and is definitely a vibe killer. For that reason, I'm going to screen hard against escorts going forward. There's enough girls out there willing to roll to a shoot solo and I'm no longer willing to waste time dealing with escorts.

I've developed a pretty good system for meeting up with girls to shoot, and creating high-quality images that they are thrilled with. Now that I've got that down, I'm focusing on how to improve my conversation ratio and turn more shoots into swoops.

Bone

[lurker]

(06-28-2013 05:53 AM)rivelino Wrote:  

MODEL RELEASE

In consideration of my engagement as a model, and for other good and
valuable consideration herein acknowledged as received, I hereby
grant to ____________ ("Photographer"), his/her heirs, legal
representatives and assigns, those for whom Photographer is acting,
and those acting with his/her authority, and permission, the
irrevocable and unrestricted right and permission to copyright, in
his/her own name or otherwise, and use, re-use, publish, and
re-publish photographic portraits or pictures of me or in which I may
be included, in whole or in part, or composite or distorted in
character or form, without restriction as to changes or alterations,
in conjunction with my own or a fictitious name, or reproductions
thereof in color or otherwise, made through any medium at his/her
studios or elsewhere, and in any and all media now or hereafter known
for illustration, promotion, art, editorial, advertising, trade, or
any other purpose whatsoever. I also consent to the use of any
printed matter in conjunction therewith.

I hereby waive any right that I may have to inspect or approve the
finished product or products and the advertising copy or other matter
that may be used in connection therewith or the use to which it may
be applied.

I hereby release, discharge and agree to save harmless Photographer,
his/her heirs, legal representatives and assigns, and all persons
acting under his/her permission or authority or those for whom he/she
is acting, from any liability by virtue of any blurring, distortion,
alteration, optical illusion, or use in composite form, whether
intentional or otherwise, that may occur or be produced in the taking
of said picture or in any subsequent processing thereof, as well as
any publication thereof, including without limitation any claims for
libel or invasion of privacy.

I hereby warrant that I am of full age and have the right to contract
in my own name. I have read the above authorization, release, and
agreement, prior to its execution, and I am fully familiar with the
contents thereof. This release shall be binding upon me and my
heirs, legal representatives, and assigns.


_____________________________________________________________________



_________________________________ __________________________________
DATE NAME


________________________________ __________________________________
WITNESS ADDRESS

If you're doing nudes and you ever want to display them for commercial purposes, you're also going to need to keep stringent records of how old she is for the 2257 regulations.

[Pacific]

@bone
For your outdoor shoots, do you use any reflectors or fill flash? Or do you just find a spot with nice diffused sky light?

Or perhaps you only shoot during the golden hour?

[BoneDaddy]

(08-17-2013 12:40 AM)Pacific Wrote:  

@bone
For your outdoor shoots, do you use any reflectors or fill flash? Or do you just find a spot with nice diffused sky light?

Or perhaps you only shoot during the golden hour?

I always have some kind of lighting gear on hand. Even during the golden hour, finding a spot with good light is hit or miss.

At the very least, I'll have an on-camera speedlight with a Stofen Omnibounce modifier. I also have a small battery-powered studio strobe that I use with either a diffused umbrella or Octodome.

In my opinion, having and knowing how to use off-camera lighting is what really sets your images apart from every other random guy with a $500 DSLR.

My go-to outdoor lighting setup is to get the sun behind the model to give a nice hair & rim light, which also separates her from the background. The off-camera flash is my key light, positioned high and camera-right. Outdoor ambient light usually always provides sufficient fill. This is a basic starting point that will always produce good results, and you can work a million variations from this theme once you begin to learn what you're doing.

[Pacific]

thanks for the response. I know off-camera lighting is the key, just can't justify putting the money in for that yet. I'm good enough with theories behind lighting that I can set up off-camera lighting with cheaper strobes on manual. However, I don't currently have a good wireless setup.

Do you use Pocket Wizard? Or maybe there are cheaper and reasonably reliable wireless setup out there now? The last I checked into this was a few years ago, and pocket wizard was pretty much the only reliable setup.

[ero]

How does making money off photography work? Just make pictures, make a site and after your portfolio you can ask money for your service?

I heard this is kind of hard to do since people who offer the jobs have their own monopolgy and their own circle which they give the jobs to.

[BoneDaddy]

(08-17-2013 11:30 AM)Pacific Wrote:  

thanks for the response. I know off-camera lighting is the key, just can't justify putting the money in for that yet. I'm good enough with theories behind lighting that I can set up off-camera lighting with cheaper strobes on manual. However, I don't currently have a good wireless setup.

Do you use Pocket Wizard? Or maybe there are cheaper and reasonably reliable wireless setup out there now? The last I checked into this was a few years ago, and pocket wizard was pretty much the only reliable setup.

Yes, I use PocketWizard II wireless triggers. They are the go-to brand for reliable performance, but I read about a lot of guys who buy cheap wireless triggers on eBay and get by that way. I don't have first-hand experience with anything other than the PocketWizards, so I really don't have anything to offer regarding cheaper alternatives.

[BoneDaddy]

(08-17-2013 11:41 AM)ero Wrote:  

How does making money off photography work? Just make pictures, make a site and after your portfolio you can ask money for your service?

I heard this is kind of hard to do since people who offer the jobs have their own monopolgy and their own circle which they give the jobs to.

Making money from photography mostly doesn't work as far as I can tell.

If you enjoy photography, you'll probably hate it by the time you figure out how to earn money with it as a business pursuit.

[AntiTrace]

What is your game during and post shoot?

The goal is to swoop these models right? How have you transitioned from photographer to swooper?

[thegmanifesto]

(08-16-2013 10:16 PM)BoneDaddy Wrote:  

When the girl does show up with an escort, its almost invariably a thuggish borefriend and is definitely a vibe killer. For that reason, I'm going to screen hard against escorts going forward. There's enough girls out there willing to roll to a shoot solo and I'm no longer willing to waste time dealing with escorts.

How are you going to go about doing this?

Asking direct if they come with an escort?

Or by building more rapport/trust ie a meet up prior to shooting?

[BoneDaddy]

(08-17-2013 11:10 PM)AntiTrace Wrote:  

What is your game during and post shoot?

The goal is to swoop these models right? How have you transitioned from photographer to swooper?

My game during the shoot is to be professional, chill and fun. I make sure the model is having a good time and is enjoying the shoot. I really don't actively "game" during the shoot.

My strategy is to chill after the shoot, have a drink if she's down for it and review the images. At this point, its standard day game stuff. Sometimes this happens immediately after the shoot, other times during a post-shoot meetup a day or two later, depending on schedules.

All that said, I make no claim to having cracked the code on this. I'm not regularly banging the girls I've photographed. I've had a couple of successes, but that's about it. Figuring out how to up my conversion ratio is my current challenge.

Even if this produced no bangs, I'd still do it because I enjoy it from a photography standpoint, and its great conversation/story material for girls I meet during standard day/night interactions. Telling a story about a photo shoot I did the other day is great bait to drop, I can bust out my portfolio on my iPad, etc.

[BoneDaddy]

(08-18-2013 12:08 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 10:16 PM)BoneDaddy Wrote:  

When the girl does show up with an escort, its almost invariably a thuggish borefriend and is definitely a vibe killer. For that reason, I'm going to screen hard against escorts going forward. There's enough girls out there willing to roll to a shoot solo and I'm no longer willing to waste time dealing with escorts.

How are you going to go about doing this?

Asking direct if they come with an escort?

Or by building more rapport/trust ie a meet up prior to shooting?

I think if I just straight up ask them if they're planning on bringing an escort, this will underscore in their mind that "I'd better bring an escort" thus scaring the cat. I probably won't go that route.

What I think I will do is to build comfort and rapport through initial phone calls and then set up a first shoot in a public location. All of this should eliminate the reasons why they would want to bring someone else along.

I'll report back after I try a few and see what kinds of results I get.

[lurker]

(08-17-2013 04:19 PM)BoneDaddy Wrote:  

(08-17-2013 11:41 AM)ero Wrote:  

How does making money off photography work? Just make pictures, make a site and after your portfolio you can ask money for your service?

I heard this is kind of hard to do since people who offer the jobs have their own monopolgy and their own circle which they give the jobs to.

Making money from photography mostly doesn't work as far as I can tell.

If you enjoy photography, you'll probably hate it by the time you figure out how to earn money with it as a business pursuit.

How to make money off photography:

1. Buy telephoto lens
2. Wait 2-80 hours outside chosen celebrity's house
3. Catch them doing something embarrassing
4. Sell the photos to tabloids

[alitarbegshe]

This thread is pure gold.

[Valhalla]

Has anyone successfully attempted these ideas here yet

[Electro]

^ Strong thread necro


Anyways, this thread kinda reminds me of this

http://www.vice.com/read/nate-hill-wears...as-scarves
http://instagram.com/trophyscarves

I wonder how many of those he could bang if he wanted to

[alitarbegshe]

(12-14-2013 09:10 AM)Valhalla Wrote:  

Has anyone successfully attempted these ideas here yet

I have, sort of. But I use more of a street/fashion angle

As I say, the OP nailed it pretty much bang on.

What i will add

# Consider a 2nd hand prosumer model such as d90, rather then d40.
-Don,t get me wrong fantastic piece of kit, what i started with but old prosumer models are cheap as chips now and to the untrained eye, looks pro gear.

#Pick up a prime lens. Zooms are great and look nice, but primes give better optics and forces you to compose better.

I would look at 85mm or equivalent for fx. understand the limits of the lens in terms of distortion and get creative.

The sartorialist, emily soto, santiagopgm primarily use this and get great results:

santiagopgm
Emily Soto
sartorialist

#Lighting lighting lighting! seperates the wheat from chaff.

Get shooting!

[Deacon0228]

wouldn't it just be easier to secure an on site date?

You roll up with your camera, say that you are from whichever fashion blog/website of your choosing and say her "street style" is what we're looking to shoot. Couple snaps here and there and then ask her out for a drink?

[samsamsam]

http://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/catalo...efurbished

Good deal - t3i with lens for $336 one year warranty. It is refurb but Canon does a good job on refurbs.

Also a cheap T3 but the T3i has better video.

[explorer]

Nice thread.

- I sincerely hope the OP was not banned for this. (I am not familiar with his other work)

- If you are an intermediate artist, you can use a professional point and shoot, like the Sony RX100 I-III for around $6-700.

- If you are an advanced artist, use only an iPhone; great pictures: http://www.apple.com/iphone/world-gallery/

With iPhone, shot only square pictures: http://connect.dpreview.com/post/7548910...phone-snob

OK, here I go back to photography school 101: https://www.creativelive.com/courses/fun...hn-greengo

[cosworth]

No read the entire thread , but an old uni mate of mine does exactly this . He's nothing to look at but now has a super hot g.f !
Seems to work for him , I'd say he's average at best as a photographer .

[jamaicabound]

I'd say if you truly have an interest in photography awesome go for it, if your doing this just to get some pussy don't waste your time. Most girls who are actually model potential can see through bullshit artists in 2 seconds when it comes to photographer game because any chick who's ever even dabbled in modeling has seen it a 100 times.

I've shared in some other posts how I used to work in the modeling industry, casting, etc. A big part of my job was going to shoots with girls to make sure photographers didn't try to fuck them or push things too far with the shoots. Alot of the girls that modeled also worked in our office as either receiptionists or running casting calls so were friendly with the owners. Even if they landed independed gigs outside our office, the job had a lot of downtime where I'd be sitting around the office watching tv or just walking around the city so they'd send me out with girls to shoots to make sure nobody tried anything and also alot of times one thing would be agreed on as far as topless or whwatever and photographers would always try to push it so if things went beyond what they were comfortable with my job would basically be to step in.

My main point however is if you dont know photography people will see it a mile away. Also, it's not a cheap hobby to get into and to be good or even decent takes some level of skill or knowledge so if you aren't really interested in photography and are tyring to do this just to get some pussy there are cheaper and less time consuming ways to do so. If you have an interest in photography its an added perk that your hobby is something that can get you laid.

At the same time if your actually good at photography I'd be careful not to push too hard and ruin a reputation if it makes you good money.