[Nomad77]

As much as we like to bash women we tend to forget about all of the abuse men have been dishing out on women over the centuries. Women in America today, behave very much like any minority that has been repressed e.g. blacks. Unless you are black, you cannot really relate to the prejudices they have to put up with on a constant basis, which in turn shapes their personality.

Let me give you an example. My father was a player in our town. He seduced and got my mother pregnant at 18. He went on to get her pregnant two more times - three kids. Then he left her to come to the US to study and become a rock star. She then had to spend the rest of her life raising three kids by herself and believing that no man would ever want her because of this. Did she do anything to deserve this? She was a virgin when they met. Was she a bitch, did she do anything bad to him or any man? No, the only thing she did was to love him and she did that until he died.

For every man that gets taken advantage of in some way by a woman there are a 1000 women like my mother. What do you think the daughters of these women grow up to be like? What do you think my mother teaches her grand daughters?

The opposite to this are the girls that grow up completely spoiled by their fathers.

To our (men) credit we have given a lot to women today but that's not the solution. It's like showing a kid you love them by giving them money. Creating great women is no different than creating great kids, it all begins with us. Because we can't teach what we don't know. If we want good women we have to start by being good men or as Gandhi said:

"Be the change you wish to see in the world."

[Samseau]

There's more to your family story that you left out.

Why did your mom go for a guy with a player reputation?
What do you mean "Your dad left for America to become a rock star"?
How did your Dad die?
What country are you from?

So many questions that have a major impact on what you're trying to say.

Also, saying men hurt women or women hurt men is pretty trivial. People have been doing that for a long time

[Nomad77]

Why do any young girl find a dashing, popular guy attractive?
He left South America to come to the US to study and create a rock band which he did.
He died of cancer. Literally, smoked and drank himself to death and she took care of him until he died.

This is a story that exist in every country. My mother is in no way special in this regard, she is just an example.
For every man, I know, that has been fucked over by a woman, I know 10 women that has been fucked
over by men 10 times worse. I have a masseuse in Europe, a Russian woman, and if I told you her life story
you would feel my mother actually had it good. (And yet, after practically being fucked over her whole life in one
way or another by men, she holds no hatred towards men.)

It is not necessary to hurt women to get sex from them, they are not naive about the nature of men. But there are lot of people out there fucking people up, creating a chain of events that ripples through time and affects us today and our kids tomorrow.

[RawGod]

Your family's story is as old as time, Nomad77. Alpha male seduces young maiden before going on his way.

But the typical background of the manosphere reader is quite different. He's been unable to have his way with attractive maidens as a younger man, due to beta/omega status. Later he finds that his status is growing, and he looks around for a partner, only to find that the women are low-quality due to the prevailing entitled mentality, obesity and years of casual sex. As he works on himself, including "game" he may pass through a period of anger where he "fucks those bitches". Hopefully, later he comes to terms with the nature of women in a more healthy way. But I don't think that most of the damage to is being done by players, whether natural or learned. It's being done by the conditions specific to our decadent, female-centric society. Divorce laws have a lot to do with it. I was one of that generation of children in the 1970s and 1980s who was hit by the massive wave of divorces initiated by women when no-fault divorce was introduced. My mother just walked away from her two young kids into her padded-shoulder career (which of course went nowhere).

I'm convinced that the only way to find sanity is to leave countries like the USA permanently and expat. You will gradually find peace and sanity. It's impossible to be bitter about the sweet women of Asia. Yes, they are wily and ultimately concerned for themselves and their genes. I don't pedestalize them at all. But the dance is just the age-old evolutionary dance, relatively untouched by the poisons of modern western ideology.

[n0000]

(02-22-2013 12:24 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

Why do any young girl find a dashing, popular guy attractive?
He left South America to come to the US to study and create a rock band which he did.
He died of cancer. Literally, smoked and drank himself to death and she took care of him until he died.

This is a story that exist in every country. My mother is in no way special in this regard, she is just an example.
For every man, I know, that has been fucked over by a woman, I know 10 women that has been fucked
over by men 10 times worse. I have a masseuse in Europe, a Russian woman, and if I told you her life story
you would feel my mother actually had it good. (And yet, after practically being fucked over her whole life in one
way or another by men, she holds no hatred towards men.)

It is not necessary to hurt women to get sex from them, they are not naive about the nature of men. But there are lot of people out there fucking people up, creating a chain of events that ripples through time and affects us today and our kids tomorrow.

Can you include more information? Traditionally it is the woman's father/brothers that keep her from falling for guys that are not good for her by first off setting an example of how an honorable man behaves and second off intervening should it become necessary. Where were they in this picture?

My experience has been quite the opposite of yours. I know of dozens of guys that have been absolutely taken advantage of by women through the divorce system.

[Nomad77]

(02-22-2013 12:43 PM)RawGod Wrote:  

Your family's story is as old as time, Nomad77. Alpha male seduces young maiden before going on his way.

But the typical background of the manosphere reader is quite different. He's been unable to have his way with attractive maidens as a younger man, due to beta/omega status. Later he finds that his status is growing, and he looks around for a partner, only to find that the women are low-quality due to the prevailing entitled mentality, obesity and years of casual sex. As he works on himself, including "game" he may pass through a period of anger where he "fucks those bitches". Hopefully, later he comes to terms with the nature of women in a more healthy way. But I don't think that most of the damage to is being done by players, whether natural or learned. It's being done by the conditions specific to our decadent, female-centric society.

I'm convinced that the only way to find sanity is to leave countries like the USA permanently and expat. You will gradually find peace and sanity. It's impossible to be bitter about the sweet women of Asia. Yes, they are wily and ultimately concerned for themselves and their genes. I don't pedestalize them at all. But the dance is just the age-old evolutionary dance, relatively untouched by the poisons of modern western ideology.

I am not specifically referring to the men on here. I am talking about ALL men - collectively. Men becoming beta is a relatively new trait in the scheme of things. AND, it's not that men are becoming beta, it's women are becoming stronger and stronger every day. And don't for one minute think this is not going to eventually affect the rest of the world. Just take a look at what's happening in Brasil.

And if you call leaving a young woman with three kids a seduction, we obviously have a very different meaning of that word.

[Nomad77]

(02-22-2013 12:55 PM)n0000 Wrote:  

(02-22-2013 12:24 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

Why do any young girl find a dashing, popular guy attractive?
He left South America to come to the US to study and create a rock band which he did.
He died of cancer. Literally, smoked and drank himself to death and she took care of him until he died.

This is a story that exist in every country. My mother is in no way special in this regard, she is just an example.
For every man, I know, that has been fucked over by a woman, I know 10 women that has been fucked
over by men 10 times worse. I have a masseuse in Europe, a Russian woman, and if I told you her life story
you would feel my mother actually had it good. (And yet, after practically being fucked over her whole life in one
way or another by men, she holds no hatred towards men.)

It is not necessary to hurt women to get sex from them, they are not naive about the nature of men. But there are lot of people out there fucking people up, creating a chain of events that ripples through time and affects us today and our kids tomorrow.

Can you include more information? Traditionally it is the woman's father/brothers that keep her from falling for guys that are not good for her by first off setting an example of how an honorable man behaves and second off intervening should it become necessary. Where were they in this picture?

My experience has been quite the opposite of yours. I know of dozens of guys that have been absolutely taken advantage of by women through the divorce system.

Ok, but how many women have you spoken to or have as friends? It's easy to look around us at our close friends and define the world from that perspective. But I am willing to bet money, that if we took a sample of 100 married men and women from around the world and look at the outcome of their marriages the results would be very different than your friends. Also, there is nothing stopping a man from getting a prenuptial agreement or not even getting married in the first place.

[Nomad77]

I want to state something very clearly here. I seduce women, sometimes for sex, sometimes for love, sometimes just for fun. What I don't do, is leave them fucked up in some way. I have a very simple rule I live by:

"Try to leave people and things a little better than you found them and the world will be a better place."

[Black Knight]

It's a prisoner's dilemma. The overall utility to society would be a lot higher if civilization returned to embracing and rewarding beta male characteristics, though the payoffs for the cad in that society are higher than for the cooperators. Likewise, defecting to cad status in our current social conditions is obviously better for the individual than cooperating with male roles that no longer return any value in most cases. In some ways it's a shame it has to be like this, but make no mistake -- it is the rational choice.

[Martel]

In different way, I went through a similar thing with a crappy alpha dad. Rollo deals with this here: http://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2012/1...e-keepers/

Game is a tool. For better or for worse, women want men who have the ability to seriously fuck them up. But having the ability to wreck a woman and actually wrecking her aren't the same.

Aristocratic men used to rape their maids and then sometimes send them away without a penny. Lots more aristocratic men didn't.

Masculinity is power. We shouldn't be afraid to have such power just because some people abuse it. If anything, if you know your right from wrong, it's even MORE important you become and alpha.

She's less likely to get thrown overboard by some scum if she can't get you out of her head.

[king]

I know this is a personal discussion for you, and with the limited information i have about this case i have a question for you: Why do you put all the responsability on your father? As the saying goes "It takes two to tango", stories of men leaving their women pregnant exist in all cultures and women are often warned about this. I am also somewhat doubtful that your mother was so lacking in options that all she can get was an irresponsible man.

Now i even may understand that your mother was naive about the world, and your father put a "good face" and got her pregnant once, but thrice? If she didn't learn anything about your father character in that time how long would it take?

And finally you say that your mother still loved him after all this? If anything this is a story that affirms all the dark theories in game (women love assholes, players, etc.)

[Kish]

Women are the choosers. There are plenty of loyal nice guys who they can start families with. But they are not attracted to those guys.

It's their own fault.

[Giovonny]

We are men. We created everything.

In America, no law can can be passed without the support of men.

Men passed laws to increase feminism. Men passed laws to allow for multi-culturism.

Everything we complain about was created by us.

Some people think men created feminism to put women to work and increase the economy?

The world was created by us. It's a mans world. If we don't like it we have to change it. 

I don't complain. I train.

Men who complain without taking action are men behaving like women.

[void]

your mother was not the victim of your father. if you deny that females have to take responsibility for their decisions and actions, you are putting them beneath children. i think they are at least at the same level.

the world is not created by men anymore, the world is run by corporations and their lobbyists. because corporations have money, jobs and are often location independent. countries are not location independent, thus they have less power.

[Samseau]

(02-22-2013 02:18 PM)king Wrote:  

I know this is a personal discussion for you, and with the limited information i have about this case i have a question for you: Why do you put all the responsability on your father? As the saying goes "It takes two to tango", stories of men leaving their women pregnant exist in all cultures and women are often warned about this. I am also somewhat doubtful that your mother was so lacking in options that all she can get was an irresponsible man.

Now i even may understand that your mother was naive about the world, and your father put a "good face" and got her pregnant once, but thrice? If she didn't learn anything about your father character in that time how long would it take?

And finally you say that your mother still loved him after all this? If anything this is a story that affirms all the dark theories in game (women love assholes, players, etc.)

Not to mention the fact that she cared for the man until his dying breath, despite him being a gigantic loser.

Nomand should stop hating on his father and instead emulate him. He obviously was doing a lot right.

[Nomad77]

@Gio you are absolute right and this is point.

@samseau My father died a lonely broken man but he was gaming until the end. Picked up some chick off the Internet in London, don't even know how. There is very little about my father I would wish to emulate. She didn't stay with him because she loved him. She stayed because she felt she had no other choice.

@Martel Correct, game is tool and it's how you use it that matters.

This is not a personal post and I am not looking for sympathy for my mother. The point I wanted to make was that the way we treat people ultimately affects all us because it's impact on society creates a ripple effect. Being Alpha is not just about being strong, it's about how that strength is used. Used constructively, it can create a lot of good. Used destructively it can also create a lot of damaged women that in turn create damaged daughters. And the same can be said of Game.

[ryanf]

I have to completely disagree. I believe it is the other way around. Game (outside of naturals) is a response to a society that allows, or even encourages, women to pursue their biological imperative, which is hypergamy. Gaining the genetic material of the highest status male in her environment, while obtaining the resources of a lesser male. Civilization benefits when this imperative is reigned in.

If women's natural instinct was to choose the nicest, sweetest, most non-player male, game would look a lot different. It would be preaching the same crap that every plentyoffish article spews, such as gifts, flowers, holding doors, etc. No man in his right mind wants to be sexually unfulfilled, or even worse, cuckholded. Don't place the blame on men for responding to a shift in society.

We reigned in our imperative to breed via quantity, and had females reign in their imperative to breed via quality, and this agreement was called monogamy. Women pulled the "end around" first. Game is our "statue of liberty" play.

[Nomad77]

I am not saying Game made women the way they are today. Game was always around in one form or another any way. I am saying that the way they are is a product of how they were treated by men for centuries. Same with the Blacks, the Jews, etc.

[Kish]

(02-22-2013 05:38 PM)ryanf Wrote:  

I have to completely disagree. I believe it is the other way around. Game (outside of naturals) is a response to a society that allows, or even encourages, women to pursue their biological imperative, which is hypergamy. Gaining the genetic material of the highest status male in her environment, while obtaining the resources of a lesser male. Civilization benefits when this imperative is reigned in.

If women's natural instinct was to choose the nicest, sweetest, most non-player male, game would look a lot different. It would be preaching the same crap that every plentyoffish article spews, such as gifts, flowers, holding doors, etc. No man in his right mind wants to be sexually unfulfilled, or even worse, cuckholded. Don't place the blame on men for responding to a shift in society.

We reigned in our imperative to breed via quantity, and had females reign in their imperative to breed via quality, and this agreement was called monogamy. Women pulled the "end around" first. Game is our "statue of liberty" play.

[ryanf]

(02-22-2013 05:44 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

I am not saying Game made women the way they are today. Game was always around in one form or another any way. I am saying that the way they are is a product of how they were treated by men for centuries. Same with the Blacks, the Jews, etc.

However, you gave your parents' story as an example, which has to do with hypergamy / Game. What else are you talking about? The right to vote? For centuries, only wealthy white land owning males could vote. Meaning the majority of males could not vote. That sucked for us too, you know.

[Nomad77]

My mother marrying my father was not hypergamy. Her family was more wealthy. She got married because that is what you did in those days in that country.

True, and look what happened to them. You eventually got tired of being treated like shit, rebelled and killed a lot of them including some Kings

[ryanf]

(02-22-2013 12:24 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

Why do any young girl find a dashing, popular guy attractive?

Hypergamy.

I'm sympathetic to your situation, but your mother did make a choice.

Regarding women, the last 50 years have all been about giving women "freedom". Freedom to choose abortion, freedom to choose promiscuity, freedom from marriage, etc. The world is tripping over it's own two feet to make it "better" for women. Is it really better? The "man up" and "why can't a successful woman find a man?" articles say otherwise. And, at 50% divorce rate, criminally insane divorce laws overwhelmingly favoring women, and rampant hypergamy, it's certainly not better for men.

So if making it so much "better" for women has the side effect of doing the exact opposite while also making it worse for men, what are we really accomplishing?

We had a fine system pre-1960. Wasn't perfect, but it was a great compromise. Now it's a broken mess.

[Asaxon]

10 hurt women for every man? Sounds like hyperbole and Jezebel statistics.

[The Pumpkin King]

(02-22-2013 12:01 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

As much as we like to bash women we tend to forget about all of the abuse men have been dishing out on women over the centuries. Women in America today, behave very much like any minority that has been repressed e.g. blacks. Unless you are black, you cannot really relate to the prejudices they have to put up with on a constant basis, which in turn shapes their personality.

It's hilarious you say this, because game is just an oppressed minority group finally evening the playing field. And how is something we weren't alive for our fault? That doesn't make any sense. The same applies to racism, my great grandfather came over on a shit boat, and his son worked shit jobs to support a family of seven. I'm sure he was obviously a member of the KKK because he was white.

[WestCoast]

To be honest the people to blame for everything is... people in general.

Men and women are hypergamous

Men want hotter girls, women want higher status guys. At the end of the day it is still the same "want" for more. We all want more more more. Knowing that we all want more... Everyone also wants an "equal playing field" so they have an "equal shot" at getting more. That's where all this shit hits the fan because every single person is straight up unequal.

Think about our society, if the vast majority of people, men & women, didnt support it, the whole system would fall. There is no way in hell you're getting this system to stay afloat for so long without the support of the majority of both sexes otherwise there would be riots and anarchy.

With all that said all you really need to know is this. Complaining gets everyone exactly in the same spot... No where and unhappy. Unless you're making money off of complaining just stop it and go do something useful with your time.