[Tengen]

Looks like a lot of prep work, but pretty tasty lookin'

[Aliblahba]

I bet it took him fours to cook it.

[WestIndianArchie]

(11-21-2012 07:10 AM)Tengen Wrote:  

Looks like a lot of prep work, but pretty tasty lookin'

Asian GF?

[Johnny Football]

Nah she works for Simple Pickup, friend of Kong.

[Veloce]

You know I gotta weigh in here (Tim Ferriss rant coming up too)...

I checked out the link for the 4 hour chef or whatever, and far be it for me to disparage something before checking it out myself...I know the underlying schtick to his books is Meta Learning and it's not really about being a chef. However, that said, here's the problem I have:

It seems to me the end result of Meta Learning is you simply know a lot of stuff. Well, personally, I don't have that problem. I've always retained knowledge really well and whatever I've applied myself to always stuck.

But being good at something isn't just about having the knowledge, it's about having the mileage, and no quick learning guide can trump experience.

In this video he's dropping a lot of knowledge that he picked up, things that might take the average person years to accumulate. My problem with this is he's basing this knowledge on information he picked up elsewhere, not on his own experience. I can see through this shit a mile away, why? BECAUSE HIS KNOWLEDGE IS BUNK.

Evaporating moisture from the steak is not important.
Baking a steak is bogus.
That nonsense about not using cast iron is ridiculous.
That nonsense about salt pulling water out of the steak, and then it "goes back into the steak" is horseshit. I'd be happy to go into a breakdown of salt's effect on de-naturing proteins and the osmotic process of salt.
Those one handed pepper mills suck. All of them.
That nonsense about butter burning in the pan...

Anyway, i could go on. My issue isn't that he's doing things wrong or dropping bunk knowledge, it's that he's presenting things in a really fucking smug, self-satisfied, and authoritative way. I can see why he's successful and why people follow him; I personally consider him an immensely successful snake-oil salesman.

Call me old-school. I think the guy has "hacked" a lot. Hacks are like human crack: everyone wants to know the hack, whatever the hack is. People love shortcuts. Me? I have mad respect for mastery and that's what I aspire for. My grandpa is a master carpenter. He'll build you a beautiful chair out of walnut with custom inlays, or he can build a goddamn house. He knows every aspect of construction from plumbing to electrical to insulation. That's what I aspire towards. What has Tim Ferriss mastered? Being an excellent bullshitter? Learning a million and one tricks in life? Being the best self promoter on the market? What is he really GOOD at? I mean that honestly, can anyone tell me?

Edit: The crust on that steak sucks.

[Drazen]

Yeah, Tim Ferris kind of creeps me out for some reason. I don't know what it is, but there's something a little off about him. I have a few of his books though and he's done very well for who he is....

[Gunner]

I don't know if this is the right place but, the dude, what do you think about 15 minute meals by Jamie Oliver?

[Veloce]

(11-21-2012 01:21 PM)bars Wrote:  

I don't know if this is the right place but, the dude, what do you think about 15 minute meals by Jamie Oliver?

Jamie Oliver gets a lot of hate but the guy has a very solid understanding of how to marry flavors and make shit taste good. His on screen persona might be annoying to some but I wholeheartedly endorse.

[Menace]

Tim Ferriss is great at selling. He appeals to the get-X-quick scheme, where X is a passive income, a fit body, or a great meal. Full disclosure: I bought e-version of 4 hour body. I'm surprised he hasn't marketed 4 Hour Game...why approach hundreds of women when he knows the hacks that will get you laid in 4 hours. He leverages the internet and media to sell mass quantities of $10 items (books), which is a proven way of getting rich today (although it isn't easy). Being authoritative and seeming like you have "discovered" something is all part of the deal.

I don't think most people actually want to be masters at anything, it takes way too much time and effort. I don't know whether that makes sense today, or is an example of the Pareto principle, or if people are just lazy. However, the appeal of "hacks" will never die, I think it's just human nature.

[le prince perdu]

(11-21-2012 12:55 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

You know I gotta weigh in here (Tim Ferriss rant coming up too)...

I checked out the link for the 4 hour chef or whatever, and far be it for me to disparage something before checking it out myself...I know the underlying schtick to his books is Meta Learning and it's not really about being a chef. However, that said, here's the problem I have:

It seems to me the end result of Meta Learning is you simply know a lot of stuff. Well, personally, I don't have that problem. I've always retained knowledge really well and whatever I've applied myself to always stuck.

But being good at something isn't just about having the knowledge, it's about having the mileage, and no quick learning guide can trump experience.

In this video he's dropping a lot of knowledge that he picked up, things that might take the average person years to accumulate. My problem with this is he's basing this knowledge on information he picked up elsewhere, not on his own experience. I can see through this shit a mile away, why? BECAUSE HIS KNOWLEDGE IS BUNK.

Evaporating moisture from the steak is not important.
Baking a steak is bogus.
That nonsense about not using cast iron is ridiculous.
That nonsense about salt pulling water out of the steak, and then it "goes back into the steak" is horseshit. I'd be happy to go into a breakdown of salt's effect on de-naturing proteins and the osmotic process of salt.
Those one handed pepper mills suck. All of them.
That nonsense about butter burning in the pan...

Anyway, i could go on. My issue isn't that he's doing things wrong or dropping bunk knowledge, it's that he's presenting things in a really fucking smug, self-satisfied, and authoritative way. I can see why he's successful and why people follow him; I personally consider him an immensely successful snake-oil salesman.

Call me old-school. I think the guy has "hacked" a lot. Hacks are like human crack: everyone wants to know the hack, whatever the hack is. People love shortcuts. Me? I have mad respect for mastery and that's what I aspire for. My grandpa is a master carpenter. He'll build you a beautiful chair out of walnut with custom inlays, or he can build a goddamn house. He knows every aspect of construction from plumbing to electrical to insulation. That's what I aspire towards. What has Tim Ferriss mastered? Being an excellent bullshitter? Learning a million and one tricks in life? Being the best self promoter on the market? What is he really GOOD at? I mean that honestly, can anyone tell me?

Edit: The crust on that steak sucks.

yeah I understand where you coming from but I don't think Tim Ferris is just a Hacker trying to learn everything quickly, that is the image he portrays to sell.

I believe the only reason his books are about finding quick ways is because there are aimed at the regular citizen and there is a huge market there. We all know that the majority of the population does not want to hear about the hard and long way but about the quick fix.

For examples in his new book 4 hour chef he actually took the time to go and learn with the Swat to be able to be a good shot, he went into the wild with Steve form meat eater and did not learn anything about cutting animals in order to get a real experience. He also grew plants in order to cut them and cook them.

He takes a very long time to make his books and usually end up cutting 150 pages or more.

It's true that he wants to hack things but when I hear him talk on the podcast he seems like he has a lot of respect for the hard way of learning but just decided to write about the quick fix.

[Drazen]

he seems to do a lot of research. maybe he outsources a lot of it though. but it seems like he works extremely hard, even before his books.

[RichieP]

Hey thedude, here what I think you're missing -

Meta Learning is not just about absorbing knowledge, it's more about skill acquisition. Skill = ability to perform a task or activity with proficiency. As I understand it, meta-learning is about quickly acquiring new skills.

Think of all the lucrative skills and generally useful stuff that could be applied to. Learning a language. Learning a programming language. Learning Copywriting. Learning a trade. Learning to cold-call. (Learning to approach girls!). Learning to read faster. Learning essential self defense quickly. Learning to swim well in two weeks (which he supposedly did).

It's about quickly acquiring real-life useful skills, some of which could directly skyrocket your earning power.

I dont know how useful his meta-learning techniques are for the reader (I suspect part of his current meta-learning chops come from his own unique brain, and/or his pure love of and years of practice at learning things), but the concept itself is sound.

btw, I notice most of the anti-Tim Ferriss stuff does seem to come from prejudices against the short-cut mentality. It seems like people take issue with the "hacker" vibe, which I can understand. I dont think he's criticizing or discounting Mastery or hard work at all though -what he's really saying though IMO, is that if you want to get just "pretty damn good" at something (as opposed to absolute mastery) there are ways to get there much more quickly than the conventional routes.

Language learning is the perfect example - it's always gonna take years to get to native fluency (if you ever do), but getting conversational can be done in 3-6 months with modern techniques and hacks, as opposed to 1-3 years as per conventional wisdom.

oh p.s. in terms of what TF's really "good" at - check out his investing portfolio and all the successful tech companies he owns a piece of, that he got when they were startups. Pretty impressive. He claims he acquired investing skill via the same meta-learning approach too, btw. Also speaks 5-6 languages conversationally. My Chinese friend tested him on a couple of Asian ones in person... he "passed", heh.

[Tbone]

Richie, I was gonna say the same thing. I want to add that many critics haven't even read much (or any) of Tim's stuff or tried some of his advice.

But he has said repeatedly in different ways: Don't believe anything that I say. If you want to see if something is valid or not, try it. But don't discount anything that you haven't personally tried. That's ludicrous.

I was studying Spanish and coming along slowly. I half-assed applied his approach to language learning and started picking it up much faster. I don't care to master the language. I wanted to speak it well enough to have conversations and get with some women. Mission accomplished.

(11-21-2012 02:02 PM)RichieP Wrote:  

Hey thedude, here what I think you're missing -

Meta Learning is not just about absorbing knowledge, it's more about skill acquisition. Skill = ability to perform a task or activity with proficiency. As I understand it, meta-learning is about quickly acquiring new skills.

Think of all the lucrative skills and generally useful stuff that could be applied to. Learning a language. Learning a programming language. Learning Copywriting. Learning a trade. Learning to cold-call. (Learning to approach girls!). Learning to read faster. Learning essential self defense quickly. Learning to swim well in two weeks (which he supposedly did).

It's about quickly acquiring real-life useful skills, some of which could directly skyrocket your earning power.

I dont know how useful his meta-learning techniques are for the reader (I suspect part of his current meta-learning chops come from his own unique brain, and/or his pure love of and years of practice at learning things), but the concept itself is sound.

btw, I notice most of the anti-Tim Ferriss stuff does seem to come from prejudices against the short-cut mentality. It seems like people take issue with the "hacker" vibe, which I can understand. I dont think he's criticizing or discounting Mastery or hard work at all though -what he's really saying though IMO, is that if you want to get just "pretty damn good" at something (as opposed to absolute mastery) there are ways to get there much more quickly than the conventional routes.

Language learning is the perfect example - it's always gonna take years to get to native fluency (if you ever do), but getting conversational can be done in 3-6 months with modern techniques and hacks, as opposed to 1-3 years as per conventional wisdom.

[Veloce]

Quote:

btw, I notice most of the anti-Tim Ferriss stuff does seem to come from prejudices against the short-cut mentality. It seems like people take issue with the "hacker" vibe, which I can understand. I dont think he's criticizing or discounting Mastery or hard work at all though -what he's really saying though IMO, is that if you want to get just "pretty damn good" at something (as opposed to absolute mastery) there are ways to get there much more quickly than the conventional routes.

I see the value in this, 100%. For people who have a hard time learning, okay, I get it.

But the presentation is smarmy and annoying as fuck. I'm sure Tim Ferriss is "pretty damn good" at a lot of things, many more things than I'm good at. But here's the thing: He's good at things that I don't give two fucks about. And the things that I do give a fuck about, I'd say playing guitar and cooking, the guy could never touch me in a million years. I would much rather master a few things in my lifetime than be "pretty damn good" at 1,000.

Now with that competitive tone aside, what's the virtue of mastery as it relates to learning? If I'm going to learn about something and manifest my passion for a particular subject, I don't want to learn from a get-rich-quick brain game guru, I want to learn from a legit master. I realize I'm in the minority of the population in that outlook but there it is.

My bottom line point is, if there's a subject that interests you, do some solid research and learn from someone who's actually accomplished something in that field. That's why I asked earlier, what has Tim Ferriss really accomplished? What is he really good at? Because as I see it, he's simply applied some brain games to compile a bunch of intermediate knowledge across a variety of fields. Even if I WAS interested in or passionate about Metalearning, I promise you the last person I would turn to is Tim Ferriss.

[RichieP]

Lol, OK...

Let me give a personal example. If his stuff works (yet to be tested), it should help me quickly improve skills like conversational Spanish and skills such as copywriting and cold-calling. Im already building these skills, but I want to get them faster. If his stuff enables that - then that directly improves my ability to travel South America and earn a freelance income while I do it.

See the value yet? If your answer again is "but I dont personally care about those skills", then.. sigh. You are beyond help

[Veloce]

(11-21-2012 03:19 PM)RichieP Wrote:  

Lol, OK...

Let me give a personal example. If his stuff works (yet to be tested), it should help me quickly improve skills like conversational Spanish and skills such as copywriting and cold-calling. Im already building these skills, but I want to get them faster. If his stuff enables that - then that directly improves my ability to travel South America and earn a freelance income while I do it.

See the value yet? If your answer again is "but I dont personally care about those skills", then.. sigh. You are beyond help

Of course I do, I'm not dense. If you feel that Tim Ferriss is the best source of information to gain those skills then by all means go for it.

What I'm talking about here is the direct relationship of him as a teacher.

"If his stuff works..."

What is "his stuff"? I'm genuinely curious, because as far as I can tell he's just a mass compiler and regurgitator of concepts and information that's already out there, only he filters it for the masses and packages it in his unique "guru-on-a-pedestal" presentation.

[WanderingSoul]

(11-21-2012 02:38 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

Quote:

btw, I notice most of the anti-Tim Ferriss stuff does seem to come from prejudices against the short-cut mentality. It seems like people take issue with the "hacker" vibe, which I can understand. I dont think he's criticizing or discounting Mastery or hard work at all though -what he's really saying though IMO, is that if you want to get just "pretty damn good" at something (as opposed to absolute mastery) there are ways to get there much more quickly than the conventional routes.

I see the value in this, 100%. For people who have a hard time learning, okay, I get it.

But the presentation is smarmy and annoying as fuck. I'm sure Tim Ferriss is "pretty damn good" at a lot of things, many more things than I'm good at. But here's the thing: He's good at things that I don't give two fucks about. And the things that I do give a fuck about, I'd say playing guitar and cooking, the guy could never touch me in a million years. I would much rather master a few things in my lifetime than be "pretty damn good" at 1,000.

Now with that competitive tone aside, what's the virtue of mastery as it relates to learning? If I'm going to learn about something and manifest my passion for a particular subject, I don't want to learn from a get-rich-quick brain game guru, I want to learn from a legit master. I realize I'm in the minority of the population in that outlook but there it is.

My bottom line point is, if there's a subject that interests you, do some solid research and learn from someone who's actually accomplished something in that field. That's why I asked earlier, what has Tim Ferriss really accomplished? What is he really good at? Because as I see it, he's simply applied some brain games to compile a bunch of intermediate knowledge across a variety of fields. Even if I WAS interested in or passionate about Metalearning, I promise you the last person I would turn to is Tim Ferriss.

I don't think you get what the book is about. From my understanding, it isn't a book to teach you how to cook. It is a book about how to learn skills more efficiently. If you wanted to learn a new language, or whatever, you could use the techniques and methodologies he describes to learn the language quicker.

For example, many people who want to learn Spanish may pick up a book and audio course. However, maybe through the methodologies you learn from this book, you know that learning the 100 most commonly spoken words make up a large percentage of conversation in that language. So you learn those 100 words.

Then your next step is to learn the 100 most common phrases. So you learn those. This may put you ahead of the large majority of other people who have used more traditional methods of learning Spanish for the same amount of time.

Or maybe Jiu Jitsu is the subject. You are able to realize that (and this probably isn't true) the most common submission is the armbar from mount. You also learn that half guard is where many newbies end up. So you go about learning how to pass half guard directly to mount, as opposed a side control. And then you learn the most effective armbar setup from mount, and how to finish the armbar.

You spent much more time working on this than most other new Jiu Jitsu players, and as a result, you are able to defeat a large majority of people with similar training time because you basically applied the 80/20 principle to Jiu Jitsu.


IMO, learning HOW to learn is a very valuable skill to have.

[RichieP]

thedude-

Lol, TF isnt the best source for gaining those skills. But he's IMO a good source for learning how to learn those skills. That's the point.

"His stuff", in the context of this new book at least, is meta-learning. Meta-Learning = Learning how to learn quickly and effectively. I'm not seeing anyone else who's talked much about that, outside of obscure academic papers and forum discussions. There's certainly very little popular information on it - I think (and hope) he'll do a good job with it. I've applied what I could glean of his language stuff prior to the book, and it's helped a shitload.

[WanderingSoul]

(11-21-2012 03:49 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

What is "his stuff"? I'm genuinely curious, because as far as I can tell he's just a mass compiler and regurgitator of concepts and information that's already out there, only he filters it for the masses and packages it in his unique "guru-on-a-pedestal" presentation.

People pay for this all of the time. I gladly pay people who have done lots of research and experimentation to put together a clear and concise plan to accomplish a goal. Hell, how do you think Roosh makes his money?

[Tbone]

Quote:

If I'm going to learn about something and manifest my passion for a particular subject, I don't want to learn from a get-rich-quick brain game guru, I want to learn from a legit master.

Quote:

My bottom line point is, if there's a subject that interests you, do some solid research and learn from someone who's actually accomplished something in that field.

LOL. Well... Tim never tried to position himself as the "learn everything from me" guru.

And his readers aren't stupid. They're not looking to learn all of life's secrets from him. They read his stuff and if something strikes a chord, they run with it.

For example, he is a master at outsourcing. I took some of his nuggets about outsourcing and applied them to my business. It worked like a charm.

But there is plenty of other shit that he says that doesn't interest me. No need to criticize it. I just skip over it.

Quote:

That's why I asked earlier, what has Tim Ferriss really accomplished? What is he really good at?

What is he really good at?

Entrepreneurship - something that many guys on this forum and out in the world want to be good at. Before he ever started a blog and writing books, he was already making good money with his sports nutrition company.

I personally knew some athletes and students who used his supplements.

He's also very knowledgeable about different fitness concepts and training protocol. I'm an expert at that, so I can tell that he knows his shit for sure.

Anyway, I could go on but I'm not a spokesperson. Anyone who really wants to know what Tim Ferriss is about can check him out. Anyone who just wants to hate will continue doing that no matter what.

[Tbone]

(11-21-2012 04:04 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

(11-21-2012 03:49 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

What is "his stuff"? I'm genuinely curious, because as far as I can tell he's just a mass compiler and regurgitator of concepts and information that's already out there, only he filters it for the masses and packages it in his unique "guru-on-a-pedestal" presentation.

People pay for this all of the time. I gladly pay people who have done lots of research and experimentation to put together a clear and concise plan to accomplish a goal. Hell, how do you think Roosh makes his money?

I was listening to a Brian Tracy audio recording recently. I can't tell you how many times this "master" of personal development quoted something that he read or heard other successful people say. 99% of authors regurgitate what they've learned from others before them.

[the_conductor]

(11-21-2012 02:02 PM)RichieP Wrote:  

Language learning is the perfect example - it's always gonna take years to get to native fluency (if you ever do), but getting conversational can be done in 3-6 months with modern techniques and hacks, as opposed to 1-3 years as per conventional wisdom.

Quote:

I've applied what I could glean of his language stuff prior to the book, and it's helped a shitload.

Hey RichieP, can you give a link to his language learning techniques and how youve used them? Thanks.

[Veloce]

You guys all make solid points. At the end of the day I guess it's about finding the guy who presents information that, as you said, "strikes a chord." Just from the vids I've seen of Tim Ferris I'm pretty certain the guy would never strike a chord with me.

That said, he should stick to the entrepeneurial shit and not cooking.

[ElJefe]

Here's what it boils down to:

Authenticity.

Tim Ferris is not authentic.

He's a lot of things, but authentic is not one.

[mharris717]

(11-21-2012 12:55 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

In this video he's dropping a lot of knowledge that he picked up, things that might take the average person years to accumulate. My problem with this is he's basing this knowledge on information he picked up elsewhere, not on his own experience. I can see through this shit a mile away, why? BECAUSE HIS KNOWLEDGE IS BUNK.

Evaporating moisture from the steak is not important.
Baking a steak is bogus.
That nonsense about not using cast iron is ridiculous.
That nonsense about salt pulling water out of the steak, and then it "goes back into the steak" is horseshit. I'd be happy to go into a breakdown of salt's effect on de-naturing proteins and the osmotic process of salt.
Those one handed pepper mills suck. All of them.
That nonsense about butter burning in the pan...

Got the link to this post from D&P, and I'm very interested in this. I've been cooking meat very similar to this video's method for years with what I thought were great results. I use cast-iron, though, and I don't finish in the oven because I enjoy my steak more black and blue-ish than rare, so I can sear an inch to inch and a half steak without overdoing the crust and be perfectly happy with a quasi-raw center. I also usually salt it right before the pan, so that's different as well, I guess.

I also have the same pepper and salt grinders, and my reasoning is that any kind of freshly ground pepper is leagues ahead of pre-ground, so you're 80% there. I'm assuming this steak video is the pareto of steaks, so for most people this is a huge improvement, but classically trained chefs would shudder that this guy is treated as an expert.

I guess that my main questions to you are about getting rid of the moisture from the exterior of the steak (I pat my steaks dry before throwing them in the pan), baking (for thicker cuts, do you just keep it in a pan or do you throw it in a broiler or something?), and butter burning, because he said it would burn but it's not a big deal, so that confused me when paired with your post.

Thanks in advance if you reply