[Swagger]

I was talking to a buddy of mine who works for one of the big 4 consulting firms. His mentor recently hinted during his annual performance review that he should get checked for adult ADHD. Till recently I never knew such a condition existed. I had seen ads for kids with ADHD but was unaware that this condition existed well in to adulthood. At first, i didn't take him seriously but when I started reading the symptoms, I am pretty convinced that atleast 50 % of the population should have some mild form of ADHD. Impulsiveness? Procrastination? Poor organization skills? Hell, I would love to be better organized. So is there a drug out there that helps you remember stuff, keeps you motivated and get shyt done? A Bradley Cooper limitless style drug?A guy I know who works at my gym told me once that Ritalin helps him concentrate, especially given his long work hours on the trade floor.
Any medical professionals on board who can actually tell me what the difference is, or is just some hype to feed us more drugs? Some links below:

http://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/guide/adhd-adults
"ADHD afflicts approximately 3% to 10% of school-aged children and an estimated 60% of those will maintain the disorder into adulthood."

"The following behaviors and problems may stem directly from ADHD or may be the result of related adjustment difficulties:
Chronic lateness and forgetfulness.
Anxiety.
Low self-esteem.
Employment problems.
Difficulty controlling anger.
Impulsiveness.
Substance abuse or addiction.
Poor organization skills.
Procrastination.
Low frustration tolerance.
Chronic boredom.
Difficulty concentrating when reading.
Mood swings.
Depression.
Relationship problems.
These behaviors may be mild to severe and can vary with the situation or be present all of the time. Some adults with ADHD may be able to concentrate if they are interested in or excited about what they are doing. Others may have difficulty focusing under any circumstances. Some adults look for stimulation, but others avoid it. In addition, adults with ADHD can be withdrawn and antisocial, or they can be overly social and unable to be alone."

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/adult-adhd/DS01161

[Prophylaxis]

Just more evidence of the over-diagnosis and stigmatisation of normal human behaviour happening now in the Western World. People just want a label to justify their behaviour. This will probably feature in the DSM-6.

[Thomas the Rhymer]

(11-19-2012 06:21 AM)Swagger Wrote:  

I am pretty convinced that atleast 50 % of the population should have some mild form of ADHD. Impulsiveness? Procrastination? Poor organization skills?

There's a difference between having a traits of the above and displaying extreme forms of the above. It's normal human behaviour to at times be happy, be sad, be impulsive, be lazy, etc.

I've met people with ADHD and they are really something else. Even adults will sometimes struggle to listen to long sentences. It's frustrating trying to speak to someone who clearly is not able to pay attention long enough for one to finish one's sentence.

I'm not aware of being able to outgrow it, some adults may be able to control it better but generally it's a lifelong difficulty.

If you can watch one of Roosh's shorter videos in one sitting without taking a pill, then you don't have ADHD.

If you want to enslave yourself to a pharmaceutical company to take one of those ADHD drugs in the hope of boosting your performance, that's your decision. It's allegedly quiet addictive, so good luck ever getting off it. And enjoy the following potential side effects:
headaches
tiredness (presumably the come-down)
dizziness
palpitations
heart pulse irregularities
high blood pressure
stomach pains
nausea
vomting
dry mouth
rash
allergic reactions
fever
hair loss
joint pains
and in rare cases: bone marrow failure, convulsions, psychosis

[Malekhit]

I had mild case of ADD throughout my childhood and adult hood, I couldn't focus I was easily distracted poor organization skills and one thousand reasons to not to do something.

Well I talked to my parents about it (I'm 25) and like always they said don't go on any pills unless its life threatening. So I went to ADHD clinic. A place where you undergo special computer training with electrodes attached to your both ears and top of your head.
Before that, you have full assesment with EMG and different tests in eg. you are alone for 10 min and you have to click on number one when is said or is on the screen and you have to do it as fast as possible. Long story short I was below average in most of the scores. Doctors at that clinic told me I could benefit greatly from this training.
I was really sceptic if its going to help or if its worth to put that much money into something that you don't know if its going to pay off.

Here I am today just finished my 60 sessions and better then ever. After I undergo similar training that olympic athletes were doing. I can concentrate on boring stuff without problem my attention in class is 99% instead of 70% I remember about important things to do. and I don't find 1k reasons to not to do something. Only thing that they don't fix is procrastination because that for you to do and develope work habit.

Regular session looks something like that, you enter the room with trainer and you get your setup on you, so elctrodes on head and ears and breathing belt and heart rate sensor on your finger. Then you have a test if everything is working properly for 30 sec. After that trainer will tell you on what thing you are working now in eg. busy brain, focus or awareness. Then you usually choose which screen you want to do like roller coaster ride or bowling or maze or any other type of activity. Then your job is to move it by focusing or by increasing awareness or to decrese busy brain.

At first you don't know what basically you doing. but then you get grasp of that. As sessions go by you learn to recognize the pattern of feeling in your head if its good or not and you know which pattern is good or not good for your purpose.

After 20 sessions you have progress test to see how you doing and on which area you should work next. Funny thing is they can recognize that you had concussion earlier in life like I had when I was 6 years old because your brain is altered forever after such an event.

Overall entire training is worth not only with people with ADD or ADHD but to regular people aswell it allows you to be in top of your game whenever and wherever you want. You should treat this as good investment in yourself for future unlike the pills.

[victor eremita]

Get diagnosed and prescribed Adderall, 90 pills a month, sell them for 10 a pop, extra 900 a month for no work. Good hustle. Or I mean you could take them...

[storm]

This is a well-known controversy. It's effectively an open secret that adults who take ADD/ADHD meds are doing so to hustle and move up for precisely the reason you enumerated. Check out the experiences on erowid
Ritalin
Adderall

Quote:

Effects: The effects were amazing. Euphoria and a robot-like work ethic. Once I got myself to sit down and open a book, all I wanted to do was homework: study, read, write something.

The usage of stimulants as a learning aid has a proud tradition (dating back to the tea buddhust monks would use) and deserves a great deal more study than it receives today.

Of course, there is a very vocal minority who actually does have the ADD/ADHD.

[Jaydublin]

(11-19-2012 09:58 AM)Malekhit Wrote:  

I had mild case of ADD throughout my childhood and adult hood, I couldn't focus I was easily distracted poor organization skills and one thousand reasons to not to do something.

Well I talked to my parents about it (I'm 25) and like always they said don't go on any pills unless its life threatening. So I went to ADHD clinic. A place where you undergo special computer training with electrodes attached to your both ears and top of your head.
Before that, you have full assesment with EMG and different tests in eg. you are alone for 10 min and you have to click on number one when is said or is on the screen and you have to do it as fast as possible. Long story short I was below average in most of the scores. Doctors at that clinic told me I could benefit greatly from this training.
I was really sceptic if its going to help or if its worth to put that much money into something that you don't know if its going to pay off.

Here I am today just finished my 60 sessions and better then ever. After I undergo similar training that olympic athletes were doing. I can concentrate on boring stuff without problem my attention in class is 99% instead of 70% I remember about important things to do. and I don't find 1k reasons to not to do something. Only thing that they don't fix is procrastination because that for you to do and develope work habit.

Regular session looks something like that, you enter the room with trainer and you get your setup on you, so elctrodes on head and ears and breathing belt and heart rate sensor on your finger. Then you have a test if everything is working properly for 30 sec. After that trainer will tell you on what thing you are working now in eg. busy brain, focus or awareness. Then you usually choose which screen you want to do like roller coaster ride or bowling or maze or any other type of activity. Then your job is to move it by focusing or by increasing awareness or to decrese busy brain.

At first you don't know what basically you doing. but then you get grasp of that. As sessions go by you learn to recognize the pattern of feeling in your head if its good or not and you know which pattern is good or not good for your purpose.

After 20 sessions you have progress test to see how you doing and on which area you should work next. Funny thing is they can recognize that you had concussion earlier in life like I had when I was 6 years old because your brain is altered forever after such an event.

Overall entire training is worth not only with people with ADD or ADHD but to regular people aswell it allows you to be in top of your game whenever and wherever you want. You should treat this as good investment in yourself for future unlike the pills.

Can you tell us the name of this training? Makes it easier to do research. Also can you give a price range?

[Idlenations]

It does exist i got diagnosed with it and just means i have to work harder on tasks and assignments as when i take concerta and other types of methylphenidate it seems to turn me into a introvert along with other side effects lack of sleep and appetite. It's not all bad though i believe if anything it helps me with my game as i'm more talkative and flirty as a result of my hyperactivity really helps with my club game having the energy to bounce around all night and still put a stellar performance in the bedroom.

[the_conductor]

(11-20-2012 04:17 AM)Jaydublin Wrote:  

(11-19-2012 09:58 AM)Malekhit Wrote:  

I had mild case of ADD throughout my childhood and adult hood, I couldn't focus I was easily distracted poor organization skills and one thousand reasons to not to do something.

Well I talked to my parents about it (I'm 25) and like always they said don't go on any pills unless its life threatening. So I went to ADHD clinic. A place where you undergo special computer training with electrodes attached to your both ears and top of your head.
Before that, you have full assesment with EMG and different tests in eg. you are alone for 10 min and you have to click on number one when is said or is on the screen and you have to do it as fast as possible. Long story short I was below average in most of the scores. Doctors at that clinic told me I could benefit greatly from this training.
I was really sceptic if its going to help or if its worth to put that much money into something that you don't know if its going to pay off.

Here I am today just finished my 60 sessions and better then ever. After I undergo similar training that olympic athletes were doing. I can concentrate on boring stuff without problem my attention in class is 99% instead of 70% I remember about important things to do. and I don't find 1k reasons to not to do something. Only thing that they don't fix is procrastination because that for you to do and develope work habit.

Regular session looks something like that, you enter the room with trainer and you get your setup on you, so elctrodes on head and ears and breathing belt and heart rate sensor on your finger. Then you have a test if everything is working properly for 30 sec. After that trainer will tell you on what thing you are working now in eg. busy brain, focus or awareness. Then you usually choose which screen you want to do like roller coaster ride or bowling or maze or any other type of activity. Then your job is to move it by focusing or by increasing awareness or to decrese busy brain.

At first you don't know what basically you doing. but then you get grasp of that. As sessions go by you learn to recognize the pattern of feeling in your head if its good or not and you know which pattern is good or not good for your purpose.

After 20 sessions you have progress test to see how you doing and on which area you should work next. Funny thing is they can recognize that you had concussion earlier in life like I had when I was 6 years old because your brain is altered forever after such an event.

Overall entire training is worth not only with people with ADD or ADHD but to regular people aswell it allows you to be in top of your game whenever and wherever you want. You should treat this as good investment in yourself for future unlike the pills.

Can you tell us the name of this training? Makes it easier to do research. Also can you give a price range?

Was what you described neurofeedback therapy? Also was your clinic certified by the BCIA?

[scotian]

(11-20-2012 02:51 AM)victor eremita Wrote:  

Get diagnosed and prescribed Adderall, 90 pills a month, sell them for 10 a pop, extra 900 a month for no work. Good hustle. Or I mean you could take them...

Funny you mention that because I used to sell my dexedrine on campus years back when I was a broke-ass student, "nerd in a bottle", that shit sold like hot cakes. That and black market smokes financed my education, definitely niche markets but there's a huge demand.

[speakeasy]

I am absolutely convinced I have some sort of ADD because I cannot concentrate on virtually anything unless I am 100% interested. And even then my attention is often split between fiddling around with Spotify or checking my Facebook or getting up to peer in the fridge as if something new will magically appear. I would like to start reading more, but I can't get through a book. I don't have the attention span. I keep reading pages over and over just to get to end of the page and realize I have no idea what I just read because my mind wandered off and I can't absorb anything. Then I just chuck the book aside and give up. I'm really pretty tired of this and think it's having a real effect on my life. I didn't know anything about ADD clinics, this is something I'll have to look into. I doubt my insurance will cover it though.

[Malekhit]

I was doing my neurofeedback training in Mississauga with Doctor thompson's. I don't if they are certified with BCIA but I know they published couple of books about Nurofeedback and they are doing that stuff from the very begining of nurofeedback. Also every trainer has higher education in psychology or they are in the process of doing it.

Training is expensive around $CAD 40 to $CAD 50 for an hour. In my perspective it is worth of every penny since it helped me tremendously. Also you usually take at the start 20 to 40 sessions that last one hour (5-10 min setup and 50 min training)

Speakeasy- As I said I had similar problems especially doing assignments on time and reading books. I noticed changes after 3 weeks of training. Your insurance will not cover it, because its a training not a therapy and you can live with ADD.

[deepcov3r]

If you think ADHD is just "not taking responsibility" or some other mentalistic crap you should let the below Harvard researchers know they're barking up the wrong tree.

I'm sure your research is better organized and more valid than theirs.

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/science-news/200...ults.shtml

Of course, there's an evolutionary basis for this. We did not evolve to process data for our owners on PCs all day. The guy who was distractible and therefore heard the saber-toothed tiger first got away, or warned his tribe.

Ome important fact I read was that people with doctorates and ADHD make only half of what PhDs without ADHD make.

I've got it for sure, one reason it doesn't come out is if you're well above average in intelligence.

I never studied ANYTHING until calculus 2. Upon hearing anything, I immediately remembered it, deduced the underlying principles from which the concepts flowed, and then just went back to spacing out.

When I started doing REALLY hard shit-- assembler language, screenwriting-- I realized my poor attention was limiting my potential.

I then got on Ritalin for a while, cranked out 5 screenplays, but disliked the physical stress the drug put on me and now kick back living off investments.

[the chef]

so is there anything natural that can increase your focus like an amphetamine like vyvanse, adderrall, ritalin, etc.?

i work out heavy, eat well, take vitamins and fish oil, and try to get atleast 7 hours a night but i want to increase my productivity levels like when i'm on vyvanse.

[deepcov3r]

(11-20-2012 05:21 PM)the chef Wrote:  

so is there anything natural that can increase your focus like an amphetamine like vyvanse, adderrall, ritalin, etc.?

i work out heavy, eat well, take vitamins and fish oil, and try to get atleast 7 hours a night but i want to increase my productivity levels like when i'm on vyvanse.

(I use ADHD here as meaning ADHD/ADD or any combination)

The training above sounds interesting, don't know the research behind it. It's possible similar results could flow from meditation. The problem with some of these techniques is they don't publish the rationale/methods-- they want to keep the money to themselves, and it might just be learning relaxation/something like meditation-- you could do it for free yourself. I don 't know the facts about that corporation.

Simple procedures like making lists every morning, and getting a through eval for depression might be good. Males often don't realize they're depressed because they don't experience it as sadness, more like mental fogging and low energy. Worse, amphetamines will make depressives feel better at first but are not really the correct medication for it. There is significant co-morbidity between depression and ADHD. There's a book called something like "Lazy, crazy, stupid" which discusses the bad follow-on effects of ADHD-- feeling eccentric, failing and being socially ostracized: if you're not depressed to begin with it can happen because of ADHD.


One problem is getting psychiatrists to prescribe drugs for adults, there's a puritanical bias against prescribing for someone who's basically functioning OK. Also, psychiatrists and psychologists both have limited tools for diagnosing, you really need a large, long-term behavior sample rather than a sit-down test.
Many athletes are overtrained. The most recent research I saw was that it takes about 10-14 days for a muscle to really recover after weightlifting. Too much exercise definitely can drain your energy, everyone's different.

In most systems, the highest ROI is gained by removing impediments rather than adding accelerants.

However, I am in the middle of a tough project and am considering getting my provider to put me back on Ritalin for its duration.

- optimize workouts amount/intensity
- less/no alcohol
- reduce driving time ( very tiring)
- clarify goals
- doing any video gaming?
- stupid TV?
- empty socializing ( people who say the same things over and over and aren't growing.)

[ghostdog]

ADHD =/= ADD. I think people confuse the two too often.
I know a guy with ADHD and he is insane. He talks really fast, is twitchy as fuck and runs around for no reason.

[Swagger]

(11-20-2012 09:09 AM)Malekhit Wrote:  

I was doing my neurofeedback training in Mississauga with Doctor thompson's. I don't if they are certified with BCIA but I know they published couple of books about Nurofeedback and they are doing that stuff from the very begining of nurofeedback. Also every trainer has higher education in psychology or they are in the process of doing it.

Training is expensive around $CAD 40 to $CAD 50 for an hour. In my perspective it is worth of every penny since it helped me tremendously. Also you usually take at the start 20 to 40 sessions that last one hour (5-10 min setup and 50 min training)

Speakeasy- As I said I had similar problems especially doing assignments on time and reading books. I noticed changes after 3 weeks of training. Your insurance will not cover it, because its a training not a therapy and you can live with ADD.

This is some good stuff..40 to 50 per hour does not sound that bad. I will be willing to sacrifice buying a pair of Allen Edmonds in the near future if the sessions can actually alter performance. Imagine how your life would be if you are firing from all cylinders. When it comes to certain tasks, (the ones that hold little interest) I am a poor organizer and master procrastinator and I cannot seem to get some started both on the personal and work front. I just thought it is natural to not be interested but I have seen guys who are organized and can plough through the most mundane stuff to get it done.
I sometimes wonder how senior associates and partners at big law and consulting practices stay focused to make executive decisions for 12-14 hours at a stretch. Granted they are workaholics and have been doing this for years but I would be curious to know if they are taking supplements or medications on the side for them to stay sharp for that long.