[speakeasy]

(09-24-2012 08:57 PM)sucio44 Wrote:  

I have a question about Europe..here. how do black guys do in there?

Google Shon Starr.

[lavidaloca]

(09-24-2012 09:25 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(09-24-2012 08:57 PM)sucio44 Wrote:  

I have a question about Europe..here. how do black guys do in there?

Google Shon Starr.

I'm not black and I did very little research on him out of curiosity as I'm always curious to see, hear and learn from travellers whom like nightlife. I admittedly only looked at his facebook profile. From looking through his pictures I wouldn't exactly get any impression that "he killed it women wise." He seems to be having a lot of fun and props to him on that and the travel/ lifestyle. If anyone really cares from looking at his pictures it seems he did by far the best in Brazil. But, maybe I'm biased to that type of look.

[oregonziggy]

I think Poland might be the place to go over their right now. A co-worker, average looking guy, not rich, no game, he literally just got dumped by his long time GF.

He went to Europe to watch world cup soccer. Spent a few days in Poland and from the pics he took, he banged some really hot women with little effort. Bought them drinks. Which he said he spent like 35 dollars one night buying girls and himself beer and drinks.
But I think the fact he is a decent guy with no attitude or any game played in his favor.

[temujin]

Canada? Spain?

Oops. I wasn't as clear as I could be. I consider THE WEST to be a lost cause. I don't even factor it into my thinking so I guess I should have been more clear.

I refer solely to Post-Soviet Europe where there is a plethora of beautiful women, average wage maxes out at around 900 euros a month in the most "prosperous" of nations, and the local competition is relatively low.

And I said 3x the average is what you should be earning to be in the running because that's the level I started at when I first moved to this region. When it started steadily increasing and I entered the 10x exponential, it was literally like "magic." I was hitting top-shelf 9s semi-consistently that were inaccessible to me previously...not because I was buying them, but because the lifestyle I could afford for myself was just that much better.

[K-man]

Totally agree. I live in EE and from my interactions with local women I have not seen them being attracted to the foreign guys just because of the allure of being foreign (e.g. some gene diversification evolutionary thing). If that were the case, they would also dig the swarthy guy from the Middle East sweating at the corner doner kebab place, or the backpacker sleeping in a hostel and getting drunk at some Irish pub.
But no, it's always the well-dressed expat living in a company-paid posh pad downtown that they dream about.

[The Fantasist]

(09-25-2012 01:09 AM)temujin Wrote:  

And I said 3x the average is what you should be earning to be in the running because that's the level I started at when I first moved to this region. When it started steadily increasing and I entered the 10x exponential, it was literally like "magic." I was hitting top-shelf 9s semi-consistently that were inaccessible to me previously...not because I was buying them, but because the lifestyle I could afford for myself was just that much better.

Why? Please break down how increasing your income meant you started hitting 9's all of a sudden that before were inaccessible. I presume your game did not magically improve when your wages did,or your looks. What I presume you mean is that you went to better clubs right? But then how did you deal with the more pretentious attitudes and higher bitch shields in them or the competition from locals with more $ then you? Were you fluent in the target markets language?

Break it down so that we can analyze if it was your wealth that was the essence of your magical improvement or some other factor. A very good friend of mine owns one of Russia's luxury brand companies. He has the penthouse in downtown Moscow,flies private,villa in Nice overlooking Cap Ferrat. Yet he was not banging 9's consistently in Russia. Look at the Wall Street bankers thread Roosh posted. I'm not saying you're wrong to state your theory but let's examine it in depth.

Break it down. Why did you magically start banging 9's that you never could before?

[muc]

Heh, YGMV (your game may vary), but this has nothing to do with money. If you are a cool guy that is enjoying life and having a good time, this will be reflected in your interactions and then sex is more likely to happen.

But sure, if you are so poor that it drags you down or if you believe that you need a BMW and a cool apartment to get laid, sex will not happen. It's all in your head.

Americans do well in Europe because you guys are usually quite open, extroverted people that are perceived as cool.

I have met and sarged with Roosh and he is a genuinely fun, charismatic guy, but I don't look at him and think: He's loaded. Maybe he is, I don't know, but that's surely not what the women that slept with him have seen in him.

Sigh.

Or just imagine two people: One is a guy that barely makes it from rent to rent each month but has a job he loves ( I don't know, a DJ or whatever ), the other is a six figure income guy that loathes himself for going to work every day.

Both guys travel to Europe. Who do you think will get laid more often?

(Granted, six-figure guy might be the one to get married sooner, but do we want that? Also I don't know anything about Ukraine or Russia, may be different there, but I doubt it.)

[temujin]

(09-25-2012 02:16 AM)Vorkuta Wrote:  

(09-25-2012 01:09 AM)temujin Wrote:  

And I said 3x the average is what you should be earning to be in the running because that's the level I started at when I first moved to this region. When it started steadily increasing and I entered the 10x exponential, it was literally like "magic." I was hitting top-shelf 9s semi-consistently that were inaccessible to me previously...not because I was buying them, but because the lifestyle I could afford for myself was just that much better.

Why? Please break down how increasing your income meant you started hitting 9's all of a sudden that before were inaccessible. I presume your game did not magically improve when your wages did,or your looks. What I presume you mean is that you went to better clubs right? But then how did you deal with the more pretentious attitudes and higher bitch shields in them or the competition from locals with more $ then you? Were you fluent in the target markets language?

Break it down so that we can analyze if it was your wealth that was the essence of your magical improvement or some other factor. A very good friend of mine owns one of Russia's luxury brand companies. He has the penthouse in downtown Moscow,flies private,villa in Nice overlooking Cap Ferrat. Yet he was not banging 9's consistently in Russia. Look at the Wall Street bankers thread Roosh posted. I'm not saying you're wrong to state your theory but let's examine it in depth.

Break it down. Why did you magically start banging 9's that you never could before?

First of all, I've never been to Moscow. Everything I do, I do to maximize the big fish in a small pond effect, without resorting to unpleasant, industrial shit holes.

Looking back upon what changed from when I was relatively "poor" to relatively "well-off", here are what come to mind.

I went from living with 2 roommates to living alone in a place similar to below.



At the same time, I went from living in an okay part of town on the outskirts to the very prestigious center, within 1-5 minutes walking distance of bars, clubs, galleries, and restaurants. Extra expense per month? Around $1500 USD.

I went from dressing in jeans and a lame shirt to dressing in variances of this:



Extra total expense? Around $3000-4000 USD total, with some upkeep required.


I got a car, nothing fancy, just some wheels to pick someone up in and take for a quick spin on weekends and evenings. Extra expense? Around $2000 USD to ship my old car from the states to Europe. Around $200 USD per month in fuel cost (I don't drive often).


When I traveled to places like Switzerland, and a girl was accompanying me, I could afford to rent places with a view like this:



Extra expense per night? Around $150 USD per night with some haggling.


When I had a party in my flat, instead of serving pizza and beer, I had champaigne and nice bottles of wine spread out like this:



Extra expense per party? Around $150 USD per party.

During the middle of the week, I could afford to go out in the day or in the evening, meet a girl, pull her back to my place, bang her all night long, then SLEEP IN THE NEXT DAY. In other words, I was my own boss, not a 9-5 employee. When the girl asks what I do for a living, I'd say something like: "I have my own company...etc" She assumes I live a charmed life (maybe I do?)

I can go on into more detail, and there are probably a dozen more things I could list, but I have to run for now. Can add more later if it's helpful.

[Wolverine]

I think what Vorkuta is alluding to is that the cultural and language connection is more important to women than cash and there are enough wealthy locals guys that possess your lavish photo lifestyle to satisfy the 9s and 10s, without them having to resort to foreigners.

The hot women in each country generally go for their own men.

Having cash is not enough on its own, one needs to master the culture and language to get the beautiful girls.

I'm in Kiev now where i can confirm there are quite a few wealthy turkish and italian men living here long term and i never see them in the company of beautiful women.

Being Russian born myself i view these guys as weak competition for these girls, despite their wealth.

[temujin]

I think this is very much the case in the Ukraine and Russia, Wolverine. It' s not as sexually xenophobic in other parts -- for example, Finland, Estonia, Poland, Czech Republic, Lithuania.

[Greek kamaki]

(09-25-2012 07:32 AM)Wolverine Wrote:  

I think what Vorkuta is alluding to is that the cultural and language connection is more important to women than cash and there are enough wealthy locals guys that possess your lavish photo lifestyle to satisfy the 9s and 10s, without them having to resort to foreigners.

The hot women in each country generally go for their own men.

Having cash is not enough on its own, one needs to master the culture and language to get the beautiful girls.

I'm in Kiev now where i can confirm there are quite a few wealthy turkish and italian men living here long term and i never see them in the company of beautiful women.

Being Russian born myself i view these guys as weak competition for these girls, despite their wealth.

Slavic guys have an edge for sure.A slavic guy with the same income and property as a Westerner can bang 4 times at least the amount of women the Westerner gets in slavic countries.
I speak Russian,polish and Czech and the approach of local guys in these countries is smoother than anything we can provide.This also turns the slavic women positive to approaches because they believe all guys have the same class in approach as the slavic guys so they are positively predisposed towards guys in general till they find the ugly truth in the western and Mediteranean world.

[The Fantasist]

Double post

[chochemonger1]

(09-25-2012 08:07 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

(09-25-2012 07:32 AM)Wolverine Wrote:  

I think what Vorkuta is alluding to is that the cultural and language connection is more important to women than cash and there are enough wealthy locals guys that possess your lavish photo lifestyle to satisfy the 9s and 10s, without them having to resort to foreigners.

The hot women in each country generally go for their own men.

Having cash is not enough on its own, one needs to master the culture and language to get the beautiful girls.

I'm in Kiev now where i can confirm there are quite a few wealthy turkish and italian men living here long term and i never see them in the company of beautiful women.

Being Russian born myself i view these guys as weak competition for these girls, despite their wealth.

Slavic guys have an edge for sure.A slavic guy with the same income and property as a Westerner can bang 4 times at least the amount of women the Westerner gets in slavic countries.
I speak Russian,polish and Czech and the approach of local guys in these countries is smoother than anything we can provide.This also turns the slavic women positive to approaches because they believe all guys have the same class in approach as the slavic guys so they are positively predisposed towards guys in general till they find the ugly truth in the western and Mediteranean world.

So kamak, are you talking about a small percentage of rich slavic men who monopolize most of the hot women over there or are you saying slavic men in general are smoother than their western or mediterranean counterparts? Whatever happened to the ogres and alcoholics that supposedly are all over Poland, Ukraine and Russia?lol

[Greek kamaki]

I wrote about a slavic guy having the same income and property with a Westerner .I made this assumption.
You can also be sure that slavic women who have the same income and property with western women are less available than the latter.

[WestCoast]

Most rich guys have no game that's the true issue here. His post on Wall Street bankers is 99% accurate, except for the ones who... Have game. No different than anything else.

If we gave Roosh $10 million. He'd no longer fuck a 7, never again. Would all be 8+. Access changes, life style changes, wverythig changes.

All game is? Selling yourself as the best prospect. At say $50-70K a year and free that's quite attractive. Now try $500K a year? $1 million? $10?

Always always always choose cash once you have game.

Every year I survive on the street my average bang moves up 0.5-1 point, this is no coincidence.

(09-25-2012 05:55 AM)temujin Wrote:  

(09-25-2012 02:16 AM)Vorkuta Wrote:  

(09-25-2012 01:09 AM)temujin Wrote:  

And I said 3x the average is what you should be earning to be in the running because that's the level I started at when I first moved to this region. When it started steadily increasing and I entered the 10x exponential, it was literally like "magic." I was hitting top-shelf 9s semi-consistently that were inaccessible to me previously...not because I was buying them, but because the lifestyle I could afford for myself was just that much better.

Why? Please break down how increasing your income meant you started hitting 9's all of a sudden that before were inaccessible. I presume your game did not magically improve when your wages did,or your looks. What I presume you mean is that you went to better clubs right? But then how did you deal with the more pretentious attitudes and higher bitch shields in them or the competition from locals with more $ then you? Were you fluent in the target markets language?

Break it down so that we can analyze if it was your wealth that was the essence of your magical improvement or some other factor. A very good friend of mine owns one of Russia's luxury brand companies. He has the penthouse in downtown Moscow,flies private,villa in Nice overlooking Cap Ferrat. Yet he was not banging 9's consistently in Russia. Look at the Wall Street bankers thread Roosh posted. I'm not saying you're wrong to state your theory but let's examine it in depth.

Break it down. Why did you magically start banging 9's that you never could before?

First of all, I've never been to Moscow. Everything I do, I do to maximize the big fish in a small pond effect, without resorting to unpleasant, industrial shit holes.

Looking back upon what changed from when I was relatively "poor" to relatively "well-off", here are what come to mind.

I went from living with 2 roommates to living alone in a place similar to below.



At the same time, I went from living in an okay part of town on the outskirts to the very prestigious center, within 1-5 minutes walking distance of bars, clubs, galleries, and restaurants. Extra expense per month? Around $1500 USD.

I went from dressing in jeans and a lame shirt to dressing in variances of this:



Extra total expense? Around $3000-4000 USD total, with some upkeep required.


I got a car, nothing fancy, just some wheels to pick someone up in and take for a quick spin on weekends and evenings. Extra expense? Around $2000 USD to ship my old car from the states to Europe. Around $200 USD per month in fuel cost (I don't drive often).


When I traveled to places like Switzerland, and a girl was accompanying me, I could afford to rent places with a view like this:



Extra expense per night? Around $150 USD per night with some haggling.


When I had a party in my flat, instead of serving pizza and beer, I had champaigne and nice bottles of wine spread out like this:



Extra expense per party? Around $150 USD per party.

During the middle of the week, I could afford to go out in the day or in the evening, meet a girl, pull her back to my place, bang her all night long, then SLEEP IN THE NEXT DAY. In other words, I was my own boss, not a 9-5 employee. When the girl asks what I do for a living, I'd say something like: "I have my own company...etc" She assumes I live a charmed life (maybe I do?)

I can go on into more detail, and there are probably a dozen more things I could list, but I have to run for now. Can add more later if it's helpful.

[Wolverine]

[quote='WestCoast' pid='274785' dateline='1348586757']
Most rich guys have no game that's the true issue here. His post on Wall Street bankers is 99% accurate, except for the ones who... Have game. No different than anything else.

If we gave Roosh $10 million. He'd no longer fuck a 7, never again. Would all be 8+. Access changes, life style changes, wverythig changes.

All game is? Selling yourself as the best prospect. At say $50-70K a year and free that's quite attractive. Now try $500K a year? $1 million? $10?

Always always always choose cash once you have game.

Every year I survive on the street my average bang moves up 0.5-1 point, this is no coincidence.

[quote='temujin' pid='274725' dateline='1348570557']

Yes but you arent a foreigner in New York are you so how is your success in New York relevant to this thread? The contention is that a foreigner with your income would not pull the same girls as you are pulling as he would be speaking zero/broken English and have no cultural connection with American chix.

Kamaki slavic men pull slavic girls because the cultural and language connection is very strong amongst these nationalities. Its not really about their game. You see even in the diaspora Russian girls are still predominantly going for Russian guys in America, Australia, the UK and Europe despite having access to more handsome, healthier and well rounded local guys many of whom have better game.

Temujin you are right about the xenophobia in Russia/Ukraine exlcuding many foreigners from the dating market irrespective of their wealth. But in the context of this thread i believe Roosh referred to Europe as his paradise as he connected culturally with the more sophisticated and educated Eastern European women over the simple minded latin American girls. If perceived wealth was the primary driver for his success then i think he would have identified South America as his paradise, where his US dollars would have enjoyed more purchasing power than Europe.

[chochemonger1]

[quote] (09-25-2012 10:54 AM)Wolverine Wrote:  

[quote='WestCoast' pid='274785' dateline='1348586757']
Most rich guys have no game that's the true issue here. His post on Wall Street bankers is 99% accurate, except for the ones who... Have game. No different than anything else.

If we gave Roosh $10 million. He'd no longer fuck a 7, never again. Would all be 8+. Access changes, life style changes, wverythig changes.

All game is? Selling yourself as the best prospect. At say $50-70K a year and free that's quite attractive. Now try $500K a year? $1 million? $10?

Always always always choose cash once you have game.

Every year I survive on the street my average bang moves up 0.5-1 point, this is no coincidence.

[quote='temujin' pid='274725' dateline='1348570557']

Yes but you arent a foreigner in New York are you so how is your success in New York relevant to this thread? The contention is that a foreigner with your income would not pull the same girls as you are pulling as he would be speaking zero/broken English and have no cultural connection with American chix.

Kamaki slavic men pull slavic girls because the cultural and language connection is very strong amongst these nationalities. Its not really about their game. You see even in the diaspora Russian girls are still predominantly going for Russian guys in America, Australia, the UK and Europe despite having access to more handsome, healthier and well rounded local guys many of whom have better game.

Temujin you are right about the xenophobia in Russia/Ukraine exlcuding many foreigners from the dating market irrespective of their wealth. But in the context of this thread i believe Roosh referred to Europe as his paradise as he connected culturally with the more sophisticated and educated Eastern European women over the simple minded latin American girls. If perceived wealth was the primary driver for his success then i think he would have identified South America as his paradise, where his US dollars would have enjoyed more purchasing power than Europe.[/quote]

I agree with you Wolverine for the most part. But Roosh 3 or 4 years ago was telling Colombian girls that he was not an ATM, when they asked him for a drink. In other words, with his success. now he can afford to go to quality bars, have fun, buy drinks and pay for taxis,etc Also he can pay for a nice pad in the central area of any european city.
If he would have gone to Europe first, 5 years ago. instead of South America, I dont think he would have done as well because he didnt have as much money and his game was still developing.
That is why I am advising him to go back to Latin America, after his month in DC. With his 2 yr experience in Europe behind him and his current bankroll he can probably pull a point or two higher regularly than when he first went. Unfortunately, conditions on the ground in Colombia and especially Brazil are deteriorating fast, so it is now or never.

[WestCoast]

It's relevant as I've travelled extensively and the more cash you have the easier it gets. Be it $$$ in Eastern Europe or in South America.

I'm simply agreeing with temujin's post on how when he made a multiple jump in cash his options changed.

No where am I saying you can't get by without the language it is a necessity. You must lean to speak but if you have game and can speak... Well guess what money acts as the exponential factor.

(Game level is maxed times language proficiency)^money.

[The Fantasist]

(09-25-2012 12:10 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

It's relevant as I've travelled extensively and the more cash you have the easier it gets. Be it $$$ in Eastern Europe or in South America.

I'm simply agreeing with temujin's post on how when he made a multiple jump in cash his options changed.

But that's not what the debate is about. If you have money your options change,yes of course. With more cash you go to better restaurants,you can rent a better pad,hit better clubs etc. My contention is that being able to do that does not mean you are suddenly banging 9's regularly as if by magic as the OP stated he could in EE or FSU. The OP never mentioned language and being fluent. He made it sound as if anyone making big $ will suddenly have 9's in his bed. That is misleading and misinformed in my opinion because I've
simply never seen. I'd also have to ask why the OP ever left the place he was in? He was banging elite girls,had an elite pad,loads of cash,what was missing? Why was he recently talking about finding a new city to open a shop in,seems like he already found his paradise.

If you want to get the elite girls,the absolute cream of the crop in the big cities having three times what the locals make as was stated by the OP means little. You need other things besides,things that are harder to acquire unless done so at birth.

WestCoast you said every year your bangs go up 0.5 to 1 on the looks scale. May I ask then what level of chick you were banging before and what score they normally are now then?

[WestCoast]

I will say with honesty I started at the 5 level. For a good 4 years moved up just 0.5 pts a year (suppose 1 was a stretch I have been in "game" for about 5 years now). Painful. Now I'd call my average a 7-7.5.

I have shown photos to members of what I consider a 7 etc. haven't had any of them really debate me.

Caught a few 8's. I'd say 7 is the norm and I agree with the 7's Roosh posted when he threw up a bunch of photos of "7's" in Eastern Europe

Gio called one of the latest a "9" it's all relative. I have my preferences as well ex: I hate girls with double D tits, looks bad to me. Also have a thing for long curly hair etc etc.

If we meet in person one day I'll immediately show photos, problem is I have too much to lose by sendin photos via Internet.

Anyway glad we agree back to Europe info. I'll be visiting again soon, so is the plan!

[temujin]

Actually, I never left and decided to stay put ;-)

As for money making women rain, again, what I left unsaid is that I still partied, went out, approached a few women per week I found attractive, threw parties, and put in the minimum amount of field work.

I mean, I hope I didn't give off the impression that sitting in my bedroom while my bank account went up and up made hot women fall down my chimney from the sky. Far from it.

[polish rumble]

(09-24-2012 10:13 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

Roosh did say Europe is HIS pooossy paradise. I don't think any such place is absolute for all men. It depends on your style, game and age. I'm reaching the magic three digits on Europe and I don't consider it my PP.

I find this post to be the more accurate of em all. The numbers, formulas, and other statistic stuff are helpful, but they will never be the answer.

A pleasant surprise is always better than unpleasant disappointment as we say here.

[Sargon of Akkad]

I often hear stories about Japan being poosy paradise for some (I have yet to go there and comfirm this for myself), even though Japan is well known for its extremely high costs of living, and I doubt that most people who go there are swimming in cash or make more than the local women.

[rudebwoy]

I think some guys are getting too caught up on the money aspect, having a million or two WILL not guarantee you top class pussy unless you are buying it. The best players are no are guys who don't have much or if they do they downplay it.

Europe is a pussy paradise because quite simply there are more attractive women per capita than in the West. It still freaks me out when you walk around alot of these major cities in Europe and you see hot women walking by themselves, this just doesn't happen in the west (Toronto at least).

Money would buy me freedom and more time, a Lambo would only attract the sort of girls I don't want.

[Greek kamaki]

Eastern Europe not Western.Americans believe they always see the future some years before so for example they have seen mix in USA and suppose the same will happen in Europe.Europe is not enough mixed by American standards(the same they have seen crisis in America and expect crisis in Europe).But there are natural blocks here.The blocks are the whole point not the tendency.I do not care about the tendencies.