[rationalize_this]

After getting countless numbers, and dealing with flake after flake after flake (I'm talking about double booking multiple days in a row and still struggling to get a single chica to commit) I've stumbled upon a strategy that has helped me reduce the likelihood of the flake, while at the same time reducing time investment.

1) Go out weeknights- This may not be possible for those living in smaller cities, but I've consistently found that girls I've met out during the week have significantly less chance of flaking. Think of it this way: Two girls go out on a wednesday for some wine and to catch up. They end up meeting an interesting, well dressed, articulate guy who can carry a conversation and is entertaining as well. They did not go out expecting to meet anyone, it just happened. Tribute to the "Sweep her off her feet theory".
Contrast this with two girls that go out on a weekend night, looking to find a guy, screening each guy that approaches them, and dealing with loud, drunk, boisterous, overly agressive douchebags.

2) Time Investment- You're going to have to put in the time here, there's no way around it, if you know a way please tell me! In the past few months i've fallen into the trap of screening the girl initially, and if within the first 10 minutes I can determine she is not going to sleep with me that night, I number close and move on. DO NOT DO THIS. You're going to have to spend 30-45 minimum to protect against the future flake.

3) HINT at the date before the number close- This has worked wonders for me. This is usually somewhere toward the end of the rapport stage where you are probing her interests. By this time you should minimum know her favorite drink, what style of hangout (bar/lounge) she likes, some type of hobby of hers, etc. Suggest a spot you know that falls under all these categories and is logistically friendly and say you'll take her there/show her it sometime.
This next part is crucial. MONITOR HER REACTION. Not just what she says, but her face, body language as well.
In my experience 3 outcomes will arise at this point.

a)She looks you in the eyes, smiles, faces toward you, puts her hand on your leg, shoulder and says "sure i'd love to". (you're in). With this outcome I usually say great, change the subject, and try to go deeper in rapport and possibly kiss close. If you feel you can't get the kiss close, number close, (if she hasn't asked for you number already) and stay with her for another 10 minutes. DO NOT EJECT as soon as you get the number.

b) She looks you in the eyes, hesitates, or quickly responds "yeah, sounds good" but with minimal excitement, and somewhat nonchalance. As of now, you're flake rate if you call this girl will be 50% if not more. Here's where you have to hook her, raise the tip of the rod (sorry for the fishing analogy). Quickly change the subject, dropping your strongest piece of bait. If you do it right, or strike with some dynamic that she relates with you'll actually see her face/demeanor change. If you can't do this within 10 minutes. Number close and leave her, expect the flake.

c) She looks away, hesistates, and says "yeah, i'd like that, but..."
usually inserting some work schedule or activity thats been keeping her hamster busy in the meantime. This is a 75% flake rate as of now. I've tried two things when i get this response. 1) Turn kind of asshole and smirking say something to the effect of "Don't worry about it, i've got a hot date with my grandma that night instead." continuing the interaction by dodging her questions and forcing her to revalidate herself.
OR
2) Go Don Draper stone cold frame: "I have a life as well, and i spend time like my money, I don't have it to waste." Here's my card, if you want to go out, you can call me, if not, good luck with everything- (smile)"

I've had more success with 1, but i've had one or two girls call me using number 2 approach.

4) At the end of the interaction, I tell her I'll CALL HER on so and so day and set details. I've even done this the next day. Yeah I know I will get slack from others with the wait two day rule etc., but especially if its a weeknight you meet her, if you wait until after the
weekend, the momentum you have created is likely lost.

5) CALL HER- if she answers, i have yet to have a girl flake that I get on the phone. Make sure you do send some type of confirmation text the day of however such as "running late, blah blah" etc.

If anyone else has input to reduce flaking in cities like Miami where these girls are constantly propositioned to go on this boat, to this club, etc. I'm all ears. Hope this helped somewhat.

[ABDada]

One thing to add is if you're primarily a day gamer, you don't number-close, you coffee-close. Get her away from what she's doing, have a cup of coffee with her, and THEN number close.

You're making her pass your tests at that point, and if she succeeds, you'll known whether or not to waste an actual "date" on her in the future.

[Samseau]

Try banging her on the same night you meet her

[Juan Antonio]

(08-27-2012 05:55 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Try banging her on the same night you meet her

This.

It's 2012. There's really nothing you can do about flaking. In the age of Facebook, texting, Twitter and POF, girls are being inundated with attention and validation from all over the place. She has all kinds of options. There's nothing that you - a "random" - can really do to stand out anymore.

Often flaking has nothing to do with you or your game. It often occurs due to unique circumstances in her life.

It's really about finding the right girl at the right time. Put your best foot forward, approach and screen relentlessly for DTF girls, escalate and take her home that night. Push it as far as you can go. Don't settle for the number. Numbers mean nothing in 2012.

[Juan Antonio]

Just had a discussion with a female friend about this.

Me: sup?
Her: hey what's up?
Me: i'm good. lemme ask you something random. ever give your number out to a guy, then not respond to his texts?
Her: yep
Me: why?
Her: i was probably drunk when i gave it out. or cuz i'm too busy to respond. or no longer interested
Me: and there's no guilt involved?
Her: why would i feel guilty?
Me: leading someone on
Her: it's all part of the game
Me: lol. forget about reason and accountability
Her: people get numbers and not call. so why not give your number and not respond? you give numbers to people that may interest you, but not enough to return their message or call. could be many reasons. i wouldn't feel guilty about it. it's my personal choice
Me: it's not just about you though
Her: of course it is. why is it not about me?
Me: how about consideration for the other person
Her: i don't even know the other person. usually non-response is an indication of no further interest. most intelligent people will interpret it as such. it's self explanatory
Me: sure. but why give out your number in the first place
Her: i already told you reasons as to why i may have

[rationalize_this]

(08-27-2012 05:55 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Try banging her on the same night you meet her

Obviously I alway push for the SNL, but its pretty tough in Brickell. I'm not driving a ferrari, and I"m not rolling in cash. Id say I pull a SNL once every two weeks in Miami. Most of my lays come from date game, and this is not online. Maybe there is nothing I can do, I'd like to think my night game is pretty tight. Maybe I should be daygaming more. Time is always an issue though.

[Parlay44]

(08-27-2012 09:09 PM)Juan Antonio Wrote:  

Me: i'm good. lemme ask you something random. ever give your number out to a guy, then not respond to his texts?
Her: yep
Me: why?
Her: i was probably drunk when i gave it out. or cuz i'm too busy to respond. or no longer interested

Her attitude will improve and call back rate will increase as she approaches and then passes 30.
She's still in that princess cunt I don't give a fuck phase. Things change when they start husband shopping.

[slubu]

(08-27-2012 09:50 PM)rationalize_this Wrote:  

(08-27-2012 05:55 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Try banging her on the same night you meet her

Id say I pull a SNL once every two weeks in Miami. Most of my lays come from date game

So you are getting approximately 26 SNLs a year, and that is less than the other bangs you are getting from dates? Putting that together, you are getting at a minimum 53 new bangs a year, or one new one per week on the lowest scale of your numbers. Assuming some of these are more than just one and dones, you are basically having sex multiple times a week. I'd say that's pretty damn good, considerably mitigates any perceived negatives you are experiencing with girls flaking and with those statistics I'd give less than two shits if a girl flakes.

[rationalize_this]

(08-27-2012 10:28 PM)slubu Wrote:  

(08-27-2012 09:50 PM)rationalize_this Wrote:  

(08-27-2012 05:55 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Try banging her on the same night you meet her

Id say I pull a SNL once every two weeks in Miami. Most of my lays come from date game

So you are getting approximately 26 SNLs a year, and that is less than the other bangs you are getting from dates? Putting that together, you are getting at a minimum 53 new bangs a year, or one new one per week on the lowest scale of your numbers. Assuming some of these are more than just one and dones, you are basically having sex multiple times a week. I'd say that's pretty damn good, considerably mitigates any perceived negatives you are experiencing with girls flaking and with those statistics I'd give less than two shits if a girl flakes.

I never math these type of things, but that sounds pretty accurate. Yeah there are weeks where i'll have a date every week, and slay 3 different girls that week, and there are weeks where every single girl in my phone won't give me time of day. So its cyclical. My main concern is getting a better approach to bang ratio, and improving quality. Lately I can't maintain a harem whatsoever, there are very few repeat performances. This isn't because I can't lay the pipe, thats not the issue. Maybe its because girls can just sense I want to pump and dump, and maybe their ok with it. Or maybe I'm just so fucked up from seeing their true colors I myself can't fake a genuine connection anymore. See the self- perpetuating problem?

[rationalize_this]

(08-27-2012 10:16 PM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

(08-27-2012 09:09 PM)Juan Antonio Wrote:  

Me: i'm good. lemme ask you something random. ever give your number out to a guy, then not respond to his texts?
Her: yep
Me: why?
Her: i was probably drunk when i gave it out. or cuz i'm too busy to respond. or no longer interested

Her attitude will improve and call back rate will increase as she approaches and then passes 30.
She's still in that princess cunt I don't give a fuck phase. Things change when they start husband shopping.

Exactly. Girls like these have their phones blowing up every 10 minutes with a different guy. The last girl I dated was a model HB 8.5, the kind of chick that guys literally do 180s when I would walk in the room with her. Her phone would be blowing up NON FUCKING STOP. And then she would tilt when I'd get a text or call past 11:30 with snide comments like "booty call?". Just wouldn't let it go. The attention whoring goes hand in hand with the dread and insecurity. Just like beauty and craziness.

[slubu]

(08-27-2012 11:06 PM)rationalize_this Wrote:  

(08-27-2012 10:28 PM)slubu Wrote:  

(08-27-2012 09:50 PM)rationalize_this Wrote:  

(08-27-2012 05:55 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Try banging her on the same night you meet her

Id say I pull a SNL once every two weeks in Miami. Most of my lays come from date game

So you are getting approximately 26 SNLs a year, and that is less than the other bangs you are getting from dates? Putting that together, you are getting at a minimum 53 new bangs a year, or one new one per week on the lowest scale of your numbers. Assuming some of these are more than just one and dones, you are basically having sex multiple times a week. I'd say that's pretty damn good, considerably mitigates any perceived negatives you are experiencing with girls flaking and with those statistics I'd give less than two shits if a girl flakes.

I never math these type of things, but that sounds pretty accurate. Yeah there are weeks where i'll have a date every week, and slay 3 different girls that week, and there are weeks where every single girl in my phone won't give me time of day. So its cyclical. My main concern is getting a better approach to bang ratio, and improving quality. Lately I can't maintain a harem whatsoever, there are very few repeat performances. This isn't because I can't lay the pipe, thats not the issue. Maybe its because girls can just sense I want to pump and dump, and maybe their ok with it. Or maybe I'm just so fucked up from seeing their true colors I myself can't fake a genuine connection anymore. See the self- perpetuating problem?

Ironic, I'm noticing this too. The better I get at pulling an SNL, the less likely I'll see them again. It's almost as if the emotional detachment that attracts them at first, pushes them away right after - they know what will happen afterwards. It's even been to the point where a girl last week said this is going to be a one-time thing pre-sex.

[rationalize_this]

(08-27-2012 11:10 PM)slubu Wrote:  

(08-27-2012 11:06 PM)rationalize_this Wrote:  

(08-27-2012 10:28 PM)slubu Wrote:  

(08-27-2012 09:50 PM)rationalize_this Wrote:  

(08-27-2012 05:55 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Try banging her on the same night you meet her

Id say I pull a SNL once every two weeks in Miami. Most of my lays come from date game

So you are getting approximately 26 SNLs a year, and that is less than the other bangs you are getting from dates? Putting that together, you are getting at a minimum 53 new bangs a year, or one new one per week on the lowest scale of your numbers. Assuming some of these are more than just one and dones, you are basically having sex multiple times a week. I'd say that's pretty damn good, considerably mitigates any perceived negatives you are experiencing with girls flaking and with those statistics I'd give less than two shits if a girl flakes.

I never math these type of things, but that sounds pretty accurate. Yeah there are weeks where i'll have a date every week, and slay 3 different girls that week, and there are weeks where every single girl in my phone won't give me time of day. So its cyclical. My main concern is getting a better approach to bang ratio, and improving quality. Lately I can't maintain a harem whatsoever, there are very few repeat performances. This isn't because I can't lay the pipe, thats not the issue. Maybe its because girls can just sense I want to pump and dump, and maybe their ok with it. Or maybe I'm just so fucked up from seeing their true colors I myself can't fake a genuine connection anymore. See the self- perpetuating problem?

Ironic, I'm noticing this too. The better I get at pulling an SNL, the less likely I'll see them again. It's almost as if the emotional detachment that attracts them at first, pushes them away right after - they know what will happen afterwards. It's even been to the point where a girl last week said this is going to be a one-time thing pre-sex.

Or they pull the reverse and amp up the prudeness and try to act like they didn't fuck you if you try to hit them up again. How fucking sad is this society when a girl pulls that gem out right before you get it in. That would NEVER HAPPEN in Europe. I would have spite fucked the hell out of her, doubtful she'd have a voice to utter such a remark when i was done with her.

[smashley]

(08-27-2012 02:50 PM)rationalize_this Wrote:  

After getting countless numbers, and dealing with flake after flake after flake (I'm talking about double booking multiple days in a row and still struggling to get a single chica to commit) I've stumbled upon a strategy that has helped me reduce the likelihood of the flake, while at the same time reducing time investment.

1) Go out weeknights- This may not be possible for those living in smaller cities, but I've consistently found that girls I've met out during the week have significantly less chance of flaking. Think of it this way: Two girls go out on a wednesday for some wine and to catch up. They end up meeting an interesting, well dressed, articulate guy who can carry a conversation and is entertaining as well. They did not go out expecting to meet anyone, it just happened. Tribute to the "Sweep her off her feet theory".
Contrast this with two girls that go out on a weekend night, looking to find a guy, screening each guy that approaches them, and dealing with loud, drunk, boisterous, overly agressive douchebags.

2) Time Investment- You're going to have to put in the time here, there's no way around it, if you know a way please tell me! In the past few months i've fallen into the trap of screening the girl initially, and if within the first 10 minutes I can determine she is not going to sleep with me that night, I number close and move on. DO NOT DO THIS. You're going to have to spend 30-45 minimum to protect against the future flake.

3) HINT at the date before the number close- This has worked wonders for me. This is usually somewhere toward the end of the rapport stage where you are probing her interests. By this time you should minimum know her favorite drink, what style of hangout (bar/lounge) she likes, some type of hobby of hers, etc. Suggest a spot you know that falls under all these categories and is logistically friendly and say you'll take her there/show her it sometime.
This next part is crucial. MONITOR HER REACTION. Not just what she says, but her face, body language as well.
In my experience 3 outcomes will arise at this point.

a)She looks you in the eyes, smiles, faces toward you, puts her hand on your leg, shoulder and says "sure i'd love to". (you're in). With this outcome I usually say great, change the subject, and try to go deeper in rapport and possibly kiss close. If you feel you can't get the kiss close, number close, (if she hasn't asked for you number already) and stay with her for another 10 minutes. DO NOT EJECT as soon as you get the number.

b) She looks you in the eyes, hesitates, or quickly responds "yeah, sounds good" but with minimal excitement, and somewhat nonchalance. As of now, you're flake rate if you call this girl will be 50% if not more. Here's where you have to hook her, raise the tip of the rod (sorry for the fishing analogy). Quickly change the subject, dropping your strongest piece of bait. If you do it right, or strike with some dynamic that she relates with you'll actually see her face/demeanor change. If you can't do this within 10 minutes. Number close and leave her, expect the flake.

c) She looks away, hesistates, and says "yeah, i'd like that, but..."
usually inserting some work schedule or activity thats been keeping her hamster busy in the meantime. This is a 75% flake rate as of now. I've tried two things when i get this response. 1) Turn kind of asshole and smirking say something to the effect of "Don't worry about it, i've got a hot date with my grandma that night instead." continuing the interaction by dodging her questions and forcing her to revalidate herself.
OR
2) Go Don Draper stone cold frame: "I have a life as well, and i spend time like my money, I don't have it to waste." Here's my card, if you want to go out, you can call me, if not, good luck with everything- (smile)"

I've had more success with 1, but i've had one or two girls call me using number 2 approach.

4) At the end of the interaction, I tell her I'll CALL HER on so and so day and set details. I've even done this the next day. Yeah I know I will get slack from others with the wait two day rule etc., but especially if its a weeknight you meet her, if you wait until after the
weekend, the momentum you have created is likely lost.

5) CALL HER- if she answers, i have yet to have a girl flake that I get on the phone. Make sure you do send some type of confirmation text the day of however such as "running late, blah blah" etc.

If anyone else has input to reduce flaking in cities like Miami where these girls are constantly propositioned to go on this boat, to this club, etc. I'm all ears. Hope this helped somewhat.

Where do you normally plan your dates??? Do you find any correlation to flaking to planning the dates near their place vs near your place? i.e. less work for them to go? I am still experimenting with this. A lot of the girls i meet are in the 15-30 minute away range no traffic...

[smashley]

[quote] (09-21-2012 06:52 PM)smashley Wrote:  

[quote='rationalize_this' pid='258615' dateline='1346097037']
After getting countless numbers, and dealing with flake after flake after flake (I'm talking about double booking multiple days in a row and still struggling to get a single chica to commit) I've stumbled upon a strategy that has helped me reduce the likelihood of the flake, while at the same time reducing time investment.

1) Go out weeknights- This may not be possible for those living in smaller cities, but I've consistently found that girls I've met out during the week have significantly less chance of flaking. Think of it this way: Two girls go out on a wednesday for some wine and to catch up. They end up meeting an interesting, well dressed, articulate guy who can carry a conversation and is entertaining as well. They did not go out expecting to meet anyone, it just happened. Tribute to the "Sweep her off her feet theory".
Contrast this with two girls that go out on a weekend night, looking to find a guy, screening each guy that approaches them, and dealing with loud, drunk, boisterous, overly agressive douchebags.

2) Time Investment- You're going to have to put in the time here, there's no way around it, if you know a way please tell me! In the past few months i've fallen into the trap of screening the girl initially, and if within the first 10 minutes I can determine she is not going to sleep with me that night, I number close and move on. DO NOT DO THIS. You're going to have to spend 30-45 minimum to protect against the future flake.

3) HINT at the date before the number close- This has worked wonders for me. This is usually somewhere toward the end of the rapport stage where you are probing her interests. By this time you should minimum know her favorite drink, what style of hangout (bar/lounge) she likes, some type of hobby of hers, etc. Suggest a spot you know that falls under all these categories and is logistically friendly and say you'll take her there/show her it sometime.
This next part is crucial. MONITOR HER REACTION. Not just what she says, but her face, body language as well.
In my experience 3 outcomes will arise at this point.

a)She looks you in the eyes, smiles, faces toward you, puts her hand on your leg, shoulder and says "sure i'd love to". (you're in). With this outcome I usually say great, change the subject, and try to go deeper in rapport and possibly kiss close. If you feel you can't get the kiss close, number close, (if she hasn't asked for you number already) and stay with her for another 10 minutes. DO NOT EJECT as soon as you get the number.

b) She looks you in the eyes, hesitates, or quickly responds "yeah, sounds good" but with minimal excitement, and somewhat nonchalance. As of now, you're flake rate if you call this girl will be 50% if not more. Here's where you have to hook her, raise the tip of the rod (sorry for the fishing analogy). Quickly change the subject, dropping your strongest piece of bait. If you do it right, or strike with some dynamic that she relates with you'll actually see her face/demeanor change. If you can't do this within 10 minutes. Number close and leave her, expect the flake.

c) She looks away, hesistates, and says "yeah, i'd like that, but..."
usually inserting some work schedule or activity thats been keeping her hamster busy in the meantime. This is a 75% flake rate as of now. I've tried two things when i get this response. 1) Turn kind of asshole and smirking say something to the effect of "Don't worry about it, i've got a hot date with my grandma that night instead." continuing the interaction by dodging her questions and forcing her to revalidate herself.
OR
2) Go Don Draper stone cold frame: "I have a life as well, and i spend time like my money, I don't have it to waste." Here's my card, if you want to go out, you can call me, if not, good luck with everything- (smile)"

I've had more success with 1, but i've had one or two girls call me using number 2 approach.

4) At the end of the interaction, I tell her I'll CALL HER on so and so day and set details. I've even done this the next day. Yeah I know I will get slack from others with the wait two day rule etc., but especially if its a weeknight you meet her, if you wait until after the
weekend, the momentum you have created is likely lost.

5) CALL HER- if she answers, i have yet to have a girl flake that I get on the phone. Make sure you do send some type of confirmation text the day of however such as "running late, blah blah" etc.

If anyone else has input to reduce flaking in cities like Miami where these girls are constantly propositioned to go on this boat, to this club, etc. I'm all ears. Hope this helped somewhat.[/quote]

Where do you normally plan your dates??? Do you find any correlation to flaking to planning the dates near their place vs near your place? i.e. less work for them to go? I am still experimenting with this. A lot of the girls i meet are in the 15-30 minute away range no traffic... I want them near me, but i find it hard getting them to me unless we've already had one date.