[speakeasy]

Yo G,

I was thinking about picking up some suits soon, just a few nice versatile classic pieces that won't go out of style fast. I saw that Jos. A Bank is having a sale where you buy one suit, you get another free + a sport coat. Suits appear to start at $500. Do you know anything about that brand? I'm a suit newbie.

http://www.josbank.com/menswear/shop/Sub...50_1001500

[kingkong]

Joseph banks clothing is generally cut for tubby middle aged men. The styles are dated and the fits are too loose.

[AlphaQup2nite]

Or just do what i do, when im in HK, of course ill get suits made their, prices are crazy low. I think i get a full custom silk suit for like 150 USD. In china itself, its a bit cheaper, but the quality isnt the best, and ive also had issues with shirts getting made too short so they get relegated to casual wear, and buttons coming off. I just got some nice black pants and a few Grey shirts made recently for like 20-25 bucks a set. I don't need the jackets since i have tons.

Ive just recently started to discover that girls respect the suit, and give you more initial interest then my old casual dress, so i find myself suiting down more and more on my free time. I used to be on of the tools who thought men who wore suits everywhere were tools. That is totally off. If im going anywhere where i plan on grabbing girls in my town, its all suits all the way. On trips its a toss up since i really don't know the style of places i might be going. But needless to say, at least one suit goes with me everywhere!

[speakeasy]

(05-07-2010 12:45 AM)AlphaQup2nite Wrote:  

Ive just recently started to discover that girls respect the suit, and give you more initial interest then my old casual dress, so i find myself suiting down more and more on my free time.

The spots I go to are pretty casual. Wearing a suit would look out of place. I might occasionally go to a place where a suit would nice. Regardless, I still need a few decent ones that are nice but not crazy expensive.

[thegmanifesto]

"I used to be on of the tools who thought men who wore suits everywhere were tools. That is totally off. If im going anywhere where i plan on grabbing girls in my town, its all suits all the way."

Yep. That is a realization many come to with time.

Last night in Barcelona, the hottest girl stepped to me, while I was suited down.

Going suited down simply makes life easier.

As far as the Jos. A Bank stuff, I am really not to familiar. Always best to just try them on. When going off the rack, some suits will fit you better than others.

[mybestshot]

Was out with a suit today, some girl said I looked like a bodyguard 2 sentences into the conversation.

To her credit, I was wearing all black, a 3-week old crew cut and no other accessories.

Is there anyway to take the edge off and not look like a club bouncer.

I'm trying to go for lean, sinister and shady, but it looks like the girls take it as stiff and stand-offish. Any help?

[kingkong]

In the vast majority of venues wearing a suit outside of business hours in the US as a normal white guy going for white girls is a bad idea. I have seen guys doing it and seen them mocked behind their back more than a few times. At certain US destinations heavy with black people and middle eastern types the suit is still respected. By and large, typical middle class people are just going to think you're a poseur if you're suited and didn't come straight from work.

Take the 90% solution. Good shoes (I like allen edmonds), good wool slacks (I like polo), and a decent sport shirt or dress shirt in a color/pattern that matches you (charles tyrwhitt or similar). You'll still win best dressed, but not look like you're trying so hard.

I'm all in favor of suits in principle, but as far as the general public that battle was lost long ago.

[thegmanifesto]

"Is there anyway to take the edge off and not look like a club bouncer. "

Maybe ease up on the weightlifting. The suits that make people look like bouncers are usually purchased at those 3 suits for the price of two places. Throw in a pocket square. Or Stay away from the black suit with white shirt look.

"In the vast majority of venues wearing a suit outside of business hours in the US as a normal white guy going for white girls is a bad idea."

Possibly, however, "the vast majority of venues" in the US are a bad idea.

New Orleans? Las Vegas? SF? Miami Beach? Beverly Hills? The Racetrack? The Boxing Match? The card game? The Gentlemans Club? The Private Club? The High End Wedding? The Art Gallery opening? The Casino floor? The Charity gig? The nightclub opening? The Lobby bar of a 5 star hotel? Paris? Barcelona? etc

All places where going Suited Down is to your advantage.

I am not trying to mop up at the local Bar and Grille in a strip mall in a suburban wasteland on $2 draft night.

Or trying to pick up on a girl eating The Mondo Nachos at some phony Mexican restaurant off the parkway.

The thing is you have to make it look casual and natural. I guessing having some Latin Blood also doesn't hurt. You can't wear a 9 to 5 guy accountant suit. You need a 9pm to 5 am International Playboy suit.

Not everyone can pull this off.

[kingkong]

> trying to mop up at the local Bar and Grille

Neither am I. But fully suited will look out of place even in lounge joints in DC and NYC on a Saturday night. There's just a rather small list of occasions and venues for a normal white dude, even in cosmopolitan settings, to favor a suit over a really well put together "casual" outfit. Personally, I think suits look good, but here in the real world I guarantee it works against one with quite a few folks.

BTW, Vegas to me is basically a monument and symbol for what's wrong with America (produces nothing, ersatz corporate "experiences", over-indulgence, childish something-for-nothing dreams). And I have some moral qualms with gambling in general. So that tells you a bit about who I'm not trying to impress.

[OGNorCal707]

I have come to greatly respect the G, from his blog and forum posts, but I will agree with King Kong, that the suited down look just doesn't flow for the majority of situations (with the exception of a lot of spots G mentioned). I live in a small college town where the hipster, hippie, surfer, hip-hop, etc. looks are most common/dominant, we have only a small handful of dive bars, and when I go out wearing nice shoes, slacks, a lacoste shirt, and kangol hat, people look at me like I'm way over dressed. Now my situation isn't the best example, but even when I go to San Francisco, I rarely see guys suited up, with the exception of a few high end clubs, restaurants, art shows, etc., I would agree that most guys would look out of place, or that they are "trying too hard." That said I guess if you got the steaz and the swag you can pull it off, and ultimately who gives a fuck, but I don't like working from a point of disadvantage personally.

[clr]

I think internationally you would get much more attention suited. I have changed a lot since getting a little older, unless I am working out I rarely wear a shirt without a collar, if its a little chilly out, I love my blazer with a dress shirt and nice pair of blue jeans. Even just a vest with a shirt (with our without a tie) looks pimp and edgy.

I know from so much time in NYC and DC, many girls looks down on the, I just came from work suited look. You go into many a club and there are 50 carbon copies of I just came from wall street look.

I am a big fan of the nice open dress shirt (read no tie) casual, suited look. like Michael Westin in Burn Notice.

I am a big fan of something I read once, "you never have a reason NOT to dress your best"

[speakeasy]

I wish someone could post some images of what the right type of playboy casual suit looks like. Or some images of guys that pull this look of properly. I'll sometimes wear a blazer with jeans, but I rarely see guys fully suited, even in nice venues so I'm having trouble visualizing how this getup is supposed to look.

[kingkong]

The Nordstrom site as well as the store actually have good ensembles for reference purposes on models & mannequins, both for suits and more casual outfits. I wouldn't recommend Nordstrom retail prices, but off-hand I think they provide a decent "visual library".

[baberuth]

If we're talkin visual library, surf around gq.com and see what you like.

[Biz]

(05-16-2010 04:42 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

I wish someone could post some images of what the right type of playboy casual suit looks like. Or some images of guys that pull this look of properly. I'll sometimes wear a blazer with jeans, but I rarely see guys fully suited, even in nice venues so I'm having trouble visualizing how this getup is supposed to look.

I agree, but everytime I think of this in my head I always think of pages in GQ with young actors suited up.

[hydrogonian]

A good strategy for less expensive high quality custom suits is to take a trip to bangkok or hong kong yourself.

Simply, find the best tailor that you can find, have him measure you, buy a suit or three, and then instruct him to keep your measurements for the future. Now, whenever you need a new suit, or the tailor gets in some extra fine fabric, you can contact each other from overseas. Tell him what you want and he'll send it to you. He can keep you in custom suits for the rest of your life without having to travel back there, and your cutting out the middleman and getting the best suits at the best prices.

I haven't done this myself, but know several attorneys that go this route, and semi-annually get new custom suits direct from their Asian taylor.

[thegmanifesto]

(05-16-2010 04:42 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

I wish someone could post some images of what the right type of playboy casual suit looks like. Or some images of guys that pull this look of properly. I'll sometimes wear a blazer with jeans, but I rarely see guys fully suited, even in nice venues so I'm having trouble visualizing how this getup is supposed to look.

Honestly, the best cat out there to look at for examples is probably me. Rarely if ever do I see someone pulling it off better. (And the only reason I said that is I am not trying to sound too cocky).

There really aren't to many good examples in popular culture today. Reason? Most actors and celebrities are weesh. And probably gay. And International Playboys stopped being covered by the media by and large (thank goodness for that.)

You really need to go out there and look for the real thing.

Or look at history, every great International Playboy in history has dressed super sharp. Hell, it is nearly impossible to find any International Playboys of history who didn't dress sharp. Or smoke cigarettes.

Check out Bugsy Siegel, Sinatra, George Best (http://www.thegmanifesto.com/2010/01/geo...ish-g.html ) Alberto Tomba ( http://www.thegmanifesto.com/2010/01/alb...ian-g.html ), All the boxers from John L Sullivan all the way to modern day (Arturo Gatti, Mayweather, Mosely De La etc).

Tennis players also dress smooth, check out Becker, Henri Laconte (french playboy), all the Latin cats.

But if you need to look at someone modern in film, Layer Cake has some dope suits and so does Bond in Casino Royale when he gets off the plane in the Bahamas I think. Gangster No1. and Sexy Beast have some dope suits if I recall correctly.

Check those.

"I haven't done this myself, but know several attorneys that go this route, and semi-annually get new custom suits direct from their Asian taylor."

This is a decent low cost route. Attorneys however, are known for being extremely poor dressers by and large.

I have never gone this route, like I would never have mexican guys make my sushi.

"BTW, Vegas to me is basically a monument and symbol for what's wrong with America (produces nothing, ersatz corporate "experiences", over-indulgence, childish something-for-nothing dreams)."

That doesn't only sound like Las Vegas, it sounds like America in general.

[Giovonny]

Like others have said, GQ magazine might be a good place to find examples.

I think the "G" hangs out in Big City, High End establishments. This is a different vibe and style then smaller town, lower end bars and clubs. I use to overdress all the time and I just looked like a clown. I was 21 years old, wearing my uncles 2,000 dollar suit (we are the same size) with a fedora hat. This was in a suburban college bar. It didn't work.

I learned to just dress in a way that fit my environment. But, i still want to be the best dressed guy in the room, or at least the guy with the best style, or maybe the guy with the most unique, cutting edge style. It just depends where I am and what kind of girls are their.

Take your own unique style, look at the town your in, and just be one of the better dressed guys around. But, if your more comfortable in casual clothes...just do that. Like "G" said, its not for everybody. I switch up my style all the time. There is a time for looking sharp and there is a time for keeping it comfortable and casual.

[thegmanifesto]

Giovonny,

Agreed. "Take your own unique style, look at the town your in, and just be one of the better dressed guys around." I think that is great advice.

For instance, in Cartagena and DR I didn't rock suits. Too hot, too over the top. I rocked more slacks and tropical styled guayabera type shirts. Dope kicks and fresh loafers. Still fresh to def.

"I use to overdress all the time and I just looked like a clown. I was 21 years old, wearing my uncles 2,000 dollar suit (we are the same size) with a fedora hat. This was in a suburban college bar. It didn't work."

In most suburban environments the suit like KingKong said is going to work against you. That is where the hate will come. But then again suburban enviorns are wack and very conformist. I remember a long time ago I was in northern virginia (don't ask me why) one night and some cats were hating on me because I was wearing a leather jacket. It was way too edgy for their wack existences. I still pulled mad girls that night though.

Age does play a role as well. Under 25, most of the time it wont have the desired effect. Hell, when I was under 25, I was E-tab peddling and sometimes beach vato'd out. Sign of the times though.

In Barcelona, I have been hanging at the top clubs with the fashion crowd and models. Suited Down all the way.

Versatility is a must when you bust.

[clr]

quick question for you. When I travel, I like to travel light, as I would guess most frequent travelers do. I havent checked a bag in the last 20 countries and dont plan on starting. I play it safe when on the road with a collared shit and jeans.

When you are going to be gone for more then a week or so, what do you take with? 1,2,3 suits? black brown shoes?

My bags are already pretty full with a few jeans, a few t shirts, shorts running shoes, socks, dress shirts, lap top, and hygiene kit.

[hydrogonian]

(05-17-2010 11:15 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Honestly, the best cat out there to look at for examples is probably me. Rarely if ever do I see someone pulling it off better. (And the only reason I said that is I am not trying to sound too cocky).

You really need to go out there and look for the real thing.

"I haven't done this myself, but know several attorneys that go this route, and semi-annually get new custom suits direct from their Asian taylor."

This is a decent low cost route. Attorneys however, are known for being extremely poor dressers by and large.

I have never gone this route, like I would never have mexican guys make my sushi.

Any pics of yourself?

I get your perspective on the Asian taylor thing, as it doesn't sound like 'Thai Taylor' and "Quality custom suits' go together. But the better taylors in Bangkok are supposedly amongst the best in the world. I'm not sure about Hong Kong, but I would imagine there are some world class taylors there as well.

I suppose its similar to the fact that a well trained Mexican would be perfectly capable of making sushi; I guarantee that no-one would be able to tell the difference. Just like well trained black man can make great pizza , a talented white man can make beats, and a latino is perfectly capable of doing anything. I'm not trying to make some type of race argument here, only that a world class suit could likely be sourced from certain parts of Asia, if world class fabric were available to the taylor of choice.

I'm not trying to speak to your area of expertise, only playing devils advocate.

Personally, I feel like I've grown into looking good in a suit. Its strange how out of place you look suited down when younger, and how out of place you can look NOT suited down in certain spots when older. In america, it doesn't even take a suit to be better dressed than 99% of guys at 99% of venues. But when its called for, nothing beats it.

[BostonBMW]

King Kong,

"Neither am I. But fully suited will look out of place even in lounge joints in DC and NYC on a Saturday night. There's just a rather small list of occasions and venues for a normal white dude, even in cosmopolitan settings, to favor a suit over a really well put together "casual" outfit. Personally, I think suits look good, but here in the real world I guarantee it works against one with quite a few folks."

I can't speak for DC, but NY works suited down. Name some of these lounge joints in New York? Hell, NYC works suited down 24/7.

Wearing a casual outfit is too common. Any Dbag can roll out in wack striped shirt and faded/torn jeans combo. When you're stepping in a suit (custom preferably) not only do you look different but feel better.

"BTW, Vegas to me is basically a monument and symbol for what's wrong with America (produces nothing, ersatz corporate "experiences", over-indulgence, childish something-for-nothing dreams). And I have some moral qualms with gambling in general. So that tells you a bit about who I'm not trying to impress."

Agreed, but it also where money goes. We are talking about Corporate titans, investors, Internal business types. I got farther with networking in Sin City than anywhere else.

[Giovonny]

(05-16-2010 12:35 PM)kingkong Wrote:  

There's just a rather small list of occasions and venues for a normal white dude, even in cosmopolitan settings, to favor a suit over a really well put together "casual" outfit. Personally, I think suits look good, but here in the real world I guarantee it works against one with quite a few folks.

When you say " here in the real world", do you mean a Trailer Park?

Seriously,

You think being a white guy in a custom suit works against you?

Like I said...Maybe in a Trailer Park Bar or maybe at a Nation of Islam Meeting.

Other then that, being a white guy in a custom suit will bring you respect and acceptance. After that, the Game is yours to win or lose. Personality, Wit, Charm, and Game have to "back-up" what you are wearing. Maybe your game is just not strong enough to "pull off" wearing a suit. You can't blame your failures on your white skin or your custom suit. That just shows weak "inner Game".

[kingkong]

> a white guy in a custom suit will bring you respect and acceptance

Mostly it will get you questions like "Why are you wearing a suit?" Or else people silently wondering why you are "trying" so hard. I've rolled straight out from business wearing a suit plenty and this is all that happens. There is zero advantage in contemporary America.

If it makes you feel like James Bond in your head and good things flow, all power to you. But personal experience indicates a touch of delusion.

BTW, my suits are most likely better than yours. The simple fact is the suit as evening/weekend wear finally died in the 90s, as did the last of the "jacket required" codes.

> do you mean a Trailer Park?

No, I mean almost anywhere you find people under 35 congregating, even at spots where incomes are mostly over 90. Now that I think about it, the rare dude in the suit is usually some over-eager climber type (hill staffer, law associate) with not much to show. People pick up on this.

Actually, I think the custom suit would work wonders at the trailer park. It probably does the trick on the rubes who flock to Vegas and New Orleans. With people who actually have class and can pick up a thing or two about your class and education inside a couple minutes? Not so much. They'll just think it's cute you're trying so hard.

As I alluded to earlier, the rules are a bit different at hip-hop clubs and places with mid-easterners. But that's not where I am.

[Giovonny]

(05-17-2010 06:35 PM)kingkong Wrote:  

>There is zero advantage in contemporary America.

This is probably true. My Game and suits have always been pretty "un-contemporary"

(05-17-2010 06:35 PM)kingkong Wrote:  

With people who actually have class and can pick up a thing or two about your class and education inside a couple minutes? Not so much.

Social class is something you are almost always "born into", so not a real indication of a mans ability. Education makes you an expert in theories and concepts. Real life experience can often be more valuable then learning out of a textbook.