[The Fantasist]

I've been searching for statistics in order to help me choose a city to move to in Russia for a month. Of course more goes into that decision then purely how rich or poor the place is but it's a good indicator. Here is what I found and my thoughts.

The most up to date info I could find is from the year 2010. This is a quick break down of the facts. ( The Euro to Rouble rate currently stands at 1:40 )

[attachment=7448]

The regions with highest average wages are the north Siberian regions. This is due to the small population but the huge gas and oil fields which employs lots of people and pays well. Hence regions such as Chukotka,Yamal,Nenets and Xhanti Mancicki have average wages of between 40,000 Roubles and 52,000 Roubles. The pussy hunter can discard those regions anyway due to the high number of indigenous people in those areas. Unless you like the Eskimo look you won't be meeting too many hotties up there and the climate is extremely harsh.

Next you have the regions and republics with average monthly wages of between 20,000 to 40,000 Roubles. Moscow and St.Peter are in this bracket as well as a lot of Siberian regions such as Sakhalin,Magadan,Tyumen region,Harbarovsk,Tomsk regions. These places will have higher concentrations of pure Slavs and larger concentrations of hot women. This tells me that since it's average wages we are talking about, a lot of the main cities in these regions will have a strong middle class with plenty of nice cars on the streets and disposable income. It will be the rural areas that brings their average down but it would be hard to bang in rural areas. My advice is to visit these towns like Tomsk etc. for the decent clubs and entertainment options BUT you are in all likelihood not going to impress too many chicks in these places by being foreign or having a higher perceived wealth value. So visit them but don't live in them.

Next we are coming to the 16,000 to 20,000 bracket. These areas are geographically spread throughout the country but are mostly South Siberian regions ( Buryatya,Irkutsk,Jewish autonomous region,Baikal region,Tuva ) or Ural region ( Sverdlovsk, Tartastan,Kemerovo,Kaluga,Samara region etc. ). These will be good regions but the Siberian ones will have large numbers of Mongol/Buryat people who are not as attractive as Slavs. The European regions will be good. Not epically shit but poor enough to make a mark. You could be comfortable there.

Next we are getting to the poorer regions and what the statistics show is that the 13,500 to 16,000 average monthly wage regions are mostly in European Russia and not far from Moscow. Some examples:
Ryazan region -15,000
Penza region - 14,000
Pskov - 14,000
Smolensk - 14,000
Bryansk - 12,500

These are probably excellent places to look. Mostly Slav and hence hot women,poor,not too far from Moscow so not taking an age to get to. You could do worse then check them out but their proximity to Moscow probably means a fair few foreigners have been before you and blazed a trail of some sort. So what you gain in cheapness and transport etc. you lose in your passport being a DHV of any kind.

Lastly,for the discerning masochist we have the poorest regions in regards to average monthly wage. This is where the Caucus republics enter the table. The thing is the Caucus region is both dangerous and highly conservative compared to the north of Russia. Much higher concentration of Muslims and less Slavic women. The poorest regions are Dagestan,Kabardino Balkaria,North Ossetia. There are a couple of interesting ones down near the very bottom of the list too:
Altai Krai: Beautiful region of Siberia with 94% Russian Slav population and hence plenty of women. The average wage is just under 12,000 roubles. Capitol city is Barnaul. Here is a video of the place: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89_WJjuu_yk
I've seen worse.

Also Khalmykia. Fascinating place as it's the only Buddhist region in Europe. Average wage of 11,600 so it's poor. I've met Khalmyk women in Moscow,they are Korean/Japanese looking girls so they get jobs in Sushi restaurants. I shit you not! Here is a video of Elista the capitol: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVxa7Hs1u...re=related
Watch it because it's a mad place considering it's in Europe. This would be a great place for those who have Asian fetishes but like the idea of being in Europe ( I know,I know,I'm using the word Europe loosely but it is in Europe ).

The next poorest Slav regions are the Tambov region and Bryansk region. The problem with Tambov is the small population of the city,under 300,000.
Here is a video of Tambov: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkifsiuBn...re=related

Bryansk is better because it has a higher population ( 450,000 ) and is almost entirely Slav. here is a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8UYmVDt-...re=related

Another poor place is Saransk which is eight hours from Moscow. Average wage of 12,000 and here is a video of the town's women http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj6ILJZ_0...re=related I would destroy those chicks. Problem is the small population of the town which is 250,000.

So I will now pipeline the hell out of Tambov/Bryansk/Saransk and see what quality responds with a view to touching down over there early 2013.

[The Fantasist]

Don't want to get involved in any race debates but here is an ethnicity map of Russia:
[attachment=7449]

I'm only posting it so that people can see which regions have the highest % of the look you happen to like.

[The Fantasist]

Here are the statistics in Russian working from poorest down to richest and the average wage:

РФСреднемесячная заработная плата за 2010 год, рублей
=================================================
13Республика Дагестан10186,6
73Карачаево-Черкесская Республика11357,9
59Кабардино-Балкарская Республика11658,9
78Республика Калмыкия11664,5
22Алтайский край11962,5
64Республика Северная Осетия-Алания11969,1
60Республика Мордовия12045,4
38Брянская область12430,9
74Республика Адыгея12493,6
48Тамбовская область12607,2
65Республика Марий Эл12679,1
41Чувашская Республика13037,5
57Курганская область13096,3
49Ивановская область13157,4
63Орловская область13244,6
75Республика Ингушетия13408,2
36Кировская область13476,7
37Ульяновская область13499,1
67Костромская область13721,8
46Курская область13886,5
39Чеченская Республика13944,4
79Республика Алтай13979,3
66Псковская область14090,7
31Удмуртская Республика14152,8
15Ставропольский край14408,5
33Пензенская область14489,9
20Саратовская область14592,3
19Волгоградская область14671,1
53Смоленская область14678,3
32Владимирская область14795,6
6Ростовская область15075,8
24Оренбургская область15084,8
45Рязанская область15124,1
23Воронежская область15191,6
51Астраханская область15390,2
44Липецкая область15523,2
28Тульская область15601,5
34Тверская область15652,3
30Белгородская область15864,3
40Ярославская область16006,1
7Республика Башкортостан16403,4
11Нижегородская область16546,5
69Новгородская область16604,5
12Самарская область16628,8
3Краснодарский край16757,9
25Омская область16784,1
18Пермский край17388,4
52Калужская область17427,7
77Республика Тыва17434,7
8Республика Татарстан17576,9
9Челябинская область17593,5
54Республика Бурятия17917,5
16Кемеровская область17980,1
70Республика Хакасия18379,1
17Новосибирская область18525,8
43Вологодская область18550,7
47Забайкальский край18609,6
56Калининградская область18628,5
5Свердловская область19674,7
68Республика Карелия19863,9
21Иркутская область20185,6
80Еврейская автономная область20255,4
РФ21211,4
27Ленинградская область21263,3
61Амурская область21841,3
50Томская область21881,3
26Приморский край21893,5
14Красноярский край22046,3
42Архангельская область[30]22183,2
35Хабаровский край23078,8
2Московская область25502,1
58Республика Коми25665,3
4Санкт-Петербург27618,1
55Республика Саха (Якутия)28601,3
62Мурманская область28924,8
72Сахалинская область35885,5
76Камчатский край36470,5
81Магаданская область37786,2
10Тюменская область[29]38366,2
1Москва40479,2
29Ханты-Мансийский автономный округ — Югра41604,8
83Ненецкий автономный округ47359,4
82Чукотский автономный округ47408,6
71Ямало-Ненецкий автономный округ52720,9

[Spartan]

List of Russian regions by HDI (human development index). A broader index of well being done by the UN.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_R...cts_by_HDI


Very High human development
RankFederal subject2009 HDI
1 Moscow0.964
2 Saint Petersburg0.904
High human development
3 Tyumen Oblast
(including KMAO and YNAO)0.882
4 Tatarstan0.864
5 Sakhalin Oblast0.855
6 Belgorod Oblast0.852
7 Tomsk Oblast0.850
 Russia (average)0.840
8 Sakha Republic0.836
9 Krasnoyarsk Krai0.834
10 Omsk Oblast0.834
11 Komi0.832
12 Orenburg Oblast0.831
13 Lipetsk Oblast0.829
14 Arkhangelsk Oblast
(including NAO)0.828
15 Sverdlovsk Oblast0.828
16 Krasnodar Krai0.828
17 Novosibirsk Oblast0.828
18 Bashkortostan0.827
19 Chelyabinsk Oblast0.826
20 Samara Oblast0.825
21 Kursk Oblast0.823
22 Udmurtia0.823
23 Yaroslavl Oblast0.823
24 Vologda Oblast0.821
25 Saratov Oblast0.820
26 Moscow Oblast0.820
27 Nizhny Novgorod Oblast0.818
28 Rostov Oblast0.818
29 Voronezh Oblast0.817
30 Magadan Oblast0.817
31 Perm Krai0.817
32 Oryol Oblast0.815
33 Kaliningrad Oblast0.812
34 Kemerovo Oblast0.812
35 North Ossetia-Alania0.812
36 Kaluga Oblast0.811
37 Irkutsk Oblast0.811
38 Volgograd Oblast0.810
39 Chuvashia0.810
40 Dagestan0.810
41 Mordovia0.809
42 Murmansk Oblast0.809
43 Chukotka Autonomous Okrug0.809
44 Khakassia0.809
45 Astrakhan Oblast0.808
46 Ulyanovsk Oblast0.807
47 Ryazan Oblast0.807
48 Penza Oblast0.806
49 Leningrad Oblast0.805
50 Tambov Oblast0.804
51 Khabarovsk Krai0.804
52 Primorsky Krai0.804
53 Stavropol Krai0.801
54 Karachay-Cherkessia0.800
55 Tula Oblast0.800
Medium human development
56 Karelia0.799
57 Novgorod Oblast0.798
58 Kamchatka Krai0.798
59 Altai Krai0.796
60 Kurgan Oblast0.796
61 Adygea0.795
62 Smolensk Oblast0.795
63 Vladimir Oblast0.795
64 Kirov Oblast0.792
65 Kostroma Oblast0.792
66 Buryatia0.791
67 Bryansk Oblast0.791
68 Amur Oblast0.789
69 Tver Oblast0.789
70 Kabardino-Balkaria0.788
71 Mari El0.788
72 Kalmykia0.782
73 Zabaykalsky Krai0.782
74 Ivanovo Oblast0.776
75 Pskov Oblast0.772
76 Chechnya0.765
77 Altai Republic0.763
78 Ingushetia0.762
79 Jewish Autonomous Oblast0.762
80 Tuva0.732

[Greek kamaki]

(08-26-2012 07:11 AM)Vorkuta Wrote:  

Next you have the regions and republics with average monthly wages of between 20,000 to 40,000 Roubles. Moscow and St.Peter are in this bracket as well as a lot of Siberian regions such as Sakhalin,Magadan,Tyumen region,Harbarovsk,Tomsk regions. These places will have higher concentrations of pure Slavs and larger concentrations of hot women. This tells me that since it's average wages we are talking about, a lot of the main cities in these regions will have a strong middle class with plenty of nice cars on the streets and disposable income. It will be the rural areas that brings their average down but it would be hard to bang in rural areas. My advice is to visit these towns like Tomsk etc. for the decent clubs and entertainment options BUT you are in all likelihood not going to impress too many chicks in these places by being foreign or having a higher perceived wealth value. So visit them but don't live in them.

Next we are coming to the 16,000 to 20,000 bracket. These areas are geographically spread throughout the country but are mostly South Siberian regions ( Buryatya,Irkutsk,Jewish autonomous region,Baikal region,Tuva ) or Ural region ( Sverdlovsk, Tartastan,Kemerovo,Kaluga,Samara region etc. ). These will be good regions but the Siberian ones will have large numbers of Mongol/Buryat people who are not as attractive as Slavs. The European regions will be good. Not epically shit but poor enough to make a mark. You could be comfortable there.

Next we are getting to the poorer regions and what the statistics show is that the 13,500 to 16,000 average monthly wage regions are mostly in European Russia and not far from Moscow. Some examples:
Ryazan region -15,000
Penza region - 14,000
Pskov - 14,000
Smolensk - 14,000
Bryansk - 12,500

These are probably excellent places to look. Mostly Slav and hence hot women,poor,not too far from Moscow so not taking an age to get to. You could do worse then check them out but their proximity to Moscow probably means a fair few foreigners have been before you and blazed a trail of some sort. So what you gain in cheapness and transport etc. you lose in your passport being a DHV of any kind.

Lastly,for the discerning masochist we have the poorest regions in regards to average monthly wage. This is where the Caucus republics enter the table. The thing is the Caucus region is both dangerous and highly conservative compared to the north of Russia. Much higher concentration of Muslims and less Slavic women. The poorest regions are Dagestan,Kabardino Balkaria,North Ossetia. There are a couple of interesting ones down near the very bottom of the list too:
Altai Krai: Beautiful region of Siberia with 94% Russian Slav population and hence plenty of women. The average wage is just under 12,000 roubles. Capitol city is Barnaul. Here is a video of the place: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89_WJjuu_yk
I've seen worse.

Also Khalmykia. Fascinating place as it's the only Buddhist region in Europe. Average wage of 11,600 so it's poor. I've met Khalmyk women in Moscow,they are Korean/Japanese looking girls so they get jobs in Sushi restaurants. I shit you not! Here is a video of Elista the capitol: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVxa7Hs1u...re=related
Watch it because it's a mad place considering it's in Europe. This would be a great place for those who have Asian fetishes but like the idea of being in Europe ( I know,I know,I'm using the word Europe loosely but it is in Europe ).

The next poorest Slav regions are the Tambov region and Bryansk region. The problem with Tambov is the small population of the city,under 300,000.
Here is a video of Tambov: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkifsiuBn...re=related

Bryansk is better because it has a higher population ( 450,000 ) and is almost entirely Slav. here is a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8UYmVDt-...re=related

Another poor place is Saransk which is eight hours from Moscow. Average wage of 12,000 and here is a video of the town's women http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj6ILJZ_0...re=related I would destroy those chicks. Problem is the small population of the town which is 250,000.

So I will now pipeline the hell out of Tambov/Bryansk/Saransk and see what quality responds with a view to touching down over there early 2013.

Exactly.The Russian regions bordering to Baltics and Belarus(Pskov,Smolensk etc) are the best.Barnaul also sounds very good from some women I have talked to.Ural region(Ekaterinenburg,Perm) also provide a lot of chances.In case of Pskov there are buses and trains from Talinn everyday so it is easy to reach.

I used exactly the same index(wages according to region) with success when I visited Ukraine in 2005.I found the statistics very accurate.(at least the impression about living standards in a given region varied according to statistics).In USSR they used to measure everything so they have kept this custom to our delight(despite the extent of black economy).

[Spartan]

Sounds like Smolensk/Pskov are worth a visit. Has anyone been?

I googled Smolensk and apparently it used to have a marriage agency(girls interested in foreigners) ...but it seems to have closed. So, at one point it was a good spot...but is it one still??

[The Fantasist]

This is a post that was posted on another forum by a poster I am in contact with about choosing a city in the FSU. Interesting read:

"Yes I think many people don't consider just how big some of these cities are. A city that sounds "provincial" like Kharkov, Ukraine or Samara, Russia in fact is really huge with many metro stops. To cross those towns by car can take an hour or more. Showing up and trying to figure out "hot spots" or good promenades to walk along can be very hard. It can really be overwhelming in such a place with only a few days to make anything at all happen (even just having a good night out, let alone getting laid).

I do think the bigger provincial cities are "bad" in the sense that they can be overwhelming to a newcomer (there's hardly any tourist information in English in books or online) and hard to coordinate meetups from internet contacts. These kinds of logistics are easy to forget about when you're browsing online profiles all from the same city, but if you show up to a big city with 5 contacts, many might be busy and the others might take 5 hours to clean up and get to where you are.

You're much better off in Moscow / Piter / Kiev / Minsk for that kind of thing. The capitals are like a huge magnet for young girls who have come and are trying to make it studying or working. There are things to see and do and many urban young women, but everything is expensive and a middle class Westerner is not very impressive in terms of money/style/etc. If you have "tight game" though the capitals are the best bet, as many mid-20's girls are used to the cosmopolitan one-night-stand game. But really, you could probably do just as well in NYC or London if that's the case.

That's why I prefer the smaller towns of 50, 000 (absolute minimum) to 500, 000. Guaranteed to have a hotel and apartments for rent (if not online then in the local newspaper) and you can usually walk from the train station to the center and see most of the town in an hour or two. Every town with 50, 000 in Belarus / Ukraine / Russia will have at least one club or late night spot, and a town of 200, 000-300, 000 will have at least 5-10 such spots. But you can ask any taxi driver and he will know all of them, and you can drive to all of them and see which are any good. In the larger cities a taxi drive from one club to another might be 30 minutes and $20. So you can only move once or twice in a night if a club is a "bust."

Of course smaller towns have less anonymity factor, which can work against you as being seen with you can have repercussions for a girl. That's why in general I think the sweet spot is pop. 300, 000 or so, where you can get one night stands (and any town of that size in the FSU will have universities / institutes) and explore the market if that's your thing.

But these smaller provincial cities I find to be the best for what I'm going after, and I've been to many of them. How many people have even heard of Mogilev, Belarus, or Oryol Russia? Towns like that can be gold mines for foreigners looking for freebies/sponsors in a way that Moscow/Piter/Kiev/Minsk can't be anymore. Girls in the capital are interested in foreigners, but from a kind of intellectual cosmopolitan stance: they want to learn about the world and make friends and maybe one day travel. Girls in the provinces will often refuse to believe you're a foreigner at first, and then become wide-eyed when they hear your accent. You'll soon be the hit of the party being introduced to everyone and getting smiles from every girl in eye sight.

It's just an amazing feeling having six 18-20 year olds firing off questions to you about your life, asking if you're married, would you marry a Russian? All while you can buy them all drinks for $2 a cocktail and come across as a real gentlemen since "guys around here never pay for us."

So I guess in summary I would say avoid the big provincial cities (besides the capitals) because they're too big, unless you have time to invest in living there (a month or more) or you can make repeated visits or you can research online in Russian. But if you plop me down in any city of around population 200,000 in the FSU I'll know the layout of the city, good restaurants, and the best club or two within 24 hours of arriving.

Okay sorry for the long aside on thoughts about demographics. I just find more on more we see posts about prices and the atmosphere in Moscow being basically no better than any major Western city. That "special something" that you can get in the FSU as a foreigner is more visible in the provinces, so I think that's the best place to be going if you have the option and are interested in freebies or in sponsoring girls. If salons/strip clubs are your thing then stick to the capital cities."

[Spartan]

Yup, I've certainly enjoyed my time in cities of 300k population. Completely agree with the author above.

[Antipodean]

Having just been in Kharkiv, Donetsk, Volgograd, Samara, Moscow, St Petersburg, Minsk in recent weeks, I agree with the above opinion.

[The Fantasist]

(08-26-2012 03:11 PM)Antipodean Wrote:  

Having just been in Kharkiv, Donetsk, Volgograd, Samara, Moscow, St Petersburg, Minsk in recent weeks, I agree with the above opinion.

That's good to hear.

Are you going to drop some data about Volgograd and Samara? Not much info on here regarding those two cities so a couple of data sheets would increase our knowledge greatly.

[The Fantasist]

(08-26-2012 03:11 PM)Antipodean Wrote:  

Having just been in Kharkiv, Donetsk, Volgograd, Samara, Moscow, St Petersburg, Minsk in recent weeks, I agree with the above opinion.

That's good to hear.

Are you going to drop some data about Volgograd and Samara? Not much info on here regarding those two cities so a couple of data sheets would increase our knowledge greatly.

[Greek kamaki]

I have analyzed it before.The ideal city has to have at least half a million population and more close to one million.Even in this case you become known after one month.Only in very big cities like Kiev,Minsk,St. Peterburg you can have anonymity.

[The Fantasist]

(08-26-2012 03:45 PM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

I have analyzed it before.The ideal city has to have at least half a million population and more close to one million.Even in this case you become known after one month.Only in very big cities like Kiev,Minsk,St. Peterburg you can have anonymity.

Greek,I see lots of people talk about anonymity on here but can I ask,what s the importance of having it? Is it merely that you don't want to get known as a 'player' by different girls you bang or something else? I would imagine there are some plus points to being seen and known in a city especially if you manage your own publicity well and let certain rumors ( that you are rich or looking for a LTR etc. ) spread in the town.

Thoughts?

[Partizan]

Great thread Vorkuta.

I am thinking of taking a year out from work to teach English in Ekaterinburg (pop 1.3m). I was there in 2009 for 2 weeks visiting relatives and had a blast. Girls were super friendly, curious as well s drop dead gorgeous. I was sad leaving the place and have been longing to go back there some day. Ekaterinburg is the industrial heart of the southern Urals region and many dyevs from surrounding small towns and villages head there to study and work. Not many foreigners there which worked to my benefit. I remember being invited to a gathering in a village and treated like a celebrity. That was a weekend and many girls go back to the villages for the weekend/dacha.

In short I would recommend Ekat. Some great clubs and very friendly/curious locals. It was the real provincial Russian experience. That said, at night certain areas can that a tad bit dodgy and you need to have your wits about you. Otherwise enjoy.

[Greek kamaki]

(08-26-2012 04:08 PM)Vorkuta Wrote:  

(08-26-2012 03:45 PM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

I have analyzed it before.The ideal city has to have at least half a million population and more close to one million.Even in this case you become known after one month.Only in very big cities like Kiev,Minsk,St. Peterburg you can have anonymity.

Greek,I see lots of people talk about anonymity on here but can I ask,what s the importance of having it? Is it merely that you don't want to get known as a 'player' by different girls you bang or something else? I would imagine there are some plus points to being seen and known in a city especially if you manage your own publicity well and let certain rumors ( that you are rich or looking for a LTR etc. ) spread in the town.

Thoughts?

Anonymity works liks this.Everytime you approach a girl,10 of her friends will know about it.So let's say you approach 20 girls everyday.200 girls learn about your approaches everyday.If the city has a population of one million this means it has half a million women of them 100000 in the age brasket 18-35.If we suppose that 10% of these women are attractive(which is usually the case in Ukraine for example) we have a number of 10000 targets which need to be approached.If you approach 20 of them everyday in one month you will have approached 600.It is about 5% of the total number.Since however their friends learn about your approaches it is more like you have approached 20% of the total number.At this point you become inevitably known.
This means that it is likely(one in five or 20% likely) that the next girl you approach will already know about you.So a city of one million capacity can keep your anonymity for one month in case you approach 20 or less women per day.(total number internet contacts,street,clubs).

Loss of anonymity means heavy shit testing,bad rumours,girls avoiding you who otherwise would be available and of course consequences from the rumour spreads the girls you dumped leave(very common in Ukraine the girl who gets dumped spreads shit about her boyfriend aka small penis,STDs,gay whatever you can imagine).

[chochemonger1]

(08-26-2012 04:40 PM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

(08-26-2012 04:08 PM)Vorkuta Wrote:  

(08-26-2012 03:45 PM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

I have analyzed it before.The ideal city has to have at least half a million population and more close to one million.Even in this case you become known after one month.Only in very big cities like Kiev,Minsk,St. Peterburg you can have anonymity.

Greek,I see lots of people talk about anonymity on here but can I ask,what s the importance of having it? Is it merely that you don't want to get known as a 'player' by different girls you bang or something else? I would imagine there are some plus points to being seen and known in a city especially if you manage your own publicity well and let certain rumors ( that you are rich or looking for a LTR etc. ) spread in the town.

Thoughts?

Anonymity works liks this.Everytime you approach a girl,10 of her friends will know about it.So let's say you approach 20 girls everyday.200 girls learn about your approaches everyday.If the city has a population of one million this means it has half a million women of them 100000 in the age brasket 18-35.If we suppose that 10% of these women are attractive(which is usually the case in Ukraine for example) we have a number of 10000 targets which need to be approached.If you approach 20 of them everyday in one month you will have approached 600.It is about 5% of the total number.Since however their friends learn about your approaches it is more like you have approached 20% of the total number.At this point you become inevitably known.
This means that it is likely(one in five or 20% likely) that the next girl you approach will already know about you.So a city of one million capacity can keep your anonymity for one month in case you approach 20 or less women per day.(total number internet contacts,street,clubs).

Loss of anonymity means heavy shit testing,bad rumours,girls avoiding you who otherwise would be available and of course consequences from the rumour spreads the girls you dumped leave(very common in Ukraine the girl who gets dumped spreads shit about her boyfriend aka small penis,STDs,gay whatever you can imagine).

Kamaki, Roosh did well in Poznan and he was there for several months. Poznan has about 600,000 people so it might be due to a difference in Polish mentality, compared to Russians or Ukranians. Either way after 2 months in a small city Id head to another city after Ive had my fill.

[Greek kamaki]

I wrote about Ukraine not about Poland.Poland is different in this regard because:
1.Polish girls lie to their girlfriends about what they did with guys
2.Having a reputation of womanizer does not hurt you in Poland.The opposite some girls will be interested to met the foreigner who has so much success.
3.Polish girls do not spread shit about you when you break up with them.
4.In relationship with polish girls you get often asked for provider status and if a girl sees you with another one, she supposes you provide for her (at least dinners) so you are desirable.This is also the case with Ukrainian girls in Kiev you get points when seen with another beautiful girl.

[Antipodean]

(08-26-2012 03:41 PM)Vorkuta Wrote:  

(08-26-2012 03:11 PM)Antipodean Wrote:  

Having just been in Kharkiv, Donetsk, Volgograd, Samara, Moscow, St Petersburg, Minsk in recent weeks, I agree with the above opinion.

That's good to hear.

Are you going to drop some data about Volgograd and Samara? Not much info on here regarding those two cities so a couple of data sheets would increase our knowledge greatly.

I don't feel qualified to offer full data sheets on them as I was only in each for a few days.
My lack of Russian language was quite an impediment (as Hooligan Harry had warned it would be)

Tried pipelining but logistics prevented hookups for various reasons, though I had quite a bit of interest after I had left each city.
You really need to start messaging at least 2 weeks before arrival.
For example, after a week, 50% of my messages had not even been opened. (Using RussianCupid)

There are many very attractive women in these cities, but as well as the language barrier I sense a nationalistic arrogance thing with Russians that is not evident in Ukraine.

Previous references here to "industrial shitholes" seem somewhat harsh, as I found these places to have fully functional infrastructure. Good roads, public transport systems, nice parks, modern buildings, significant amounts of new construction underway. Modern shopping malls with much the same goods as in the US or western Europe.

My accommodation in Volgograd was poorly located, which caused me frustrations, and the city is spread out rather than having a densely populated center. More suited to having a car to get around. I was there 3 days.

In Samara there is a long sandy beach frontage and promenade along the edge of the river Volga, with thousands of people using it.
Nicer than some of the oceanfront rocks and pebbles they call beaches in parts of southern Europe!
I was there 7 days and had an apartment lined up to stay longer, but it fell through at the last minute.

Of the two, I would pick Samara.

Any questions? I'll try to answer.

[chochemonger1]

(08-26-2012 05:26 PM)Antipodean Wrote:  

(08-26-2012 03:41 PM)Vorkuta Wrote:  

(08-26-2012 03:11 PM)Antipodean Wrote:  

Having just been in Kharkiv, Donetsk, Volgograd, Samara, Moscow, St Petersburg, Minsk in recent weeks, I agree with the above opinion.

That's good to hear.

Are you going to drop some data about Volgograd and Samara? Not much info on here regarding those two cities so a couple of data sheets would increase our knowledge greatly.

I don't feel qualified to offer full data sheets on them as I was only in each for a few days.
My lack of Russian language was quite an impediment (as Hooligan Harry had warned it would be)

Tried pipelining but logistics prevented hookups for various reasons, though I had quite a bit of interest after I had left each city.
You really need to start messaging at least 2 weeks before arrival.
For example, after a week, 50% of my messages had not even been opened. (Using RussianCupid)

There are many very attractive women in these cities, but as well as the language barrier I sense a nationalistic arrogance thing with Russians that is not evident in Ukraine.

Previous references here to "industrial shitholes" seem somewhat harsh, as I found these places to have fully functional infrastructure. Good roads, public transport systems, nice parks, modern buildings, significant amounts of new construction underway. Modern shopping malls with much the same goods as in the US or western Europe.

My accommodation in Volgograd was poorly located, which caused me frustrations, and the city is spread out rather than having a densely populated center. More suited to having a car to get around. I was there 3 days.

In Samara there is a long sandy beach frontage and promenade along the edge of the river Volga, with thousands of people using it.
Nicer than some of the oceanfront rocks and pebbles they call beaches in parts of southern Europe!
I was there 7 days and had an apartment lined up to stay longer, but it fell through at the last minute.

Of the two, I would pick Samara.

Any questions? I'll try to answer.

Samara sounds damn good. From all the info i have gathered here in the forum, the FSU is the best for women.... but you must have very good russian language skills, among other things. But is that enough for a Latin or black guy to do well? In Russia IMO NO. In the rest of Eastern Europe i would say YES...there it is based more on your game and bank roll, whatever race you are. I still might do a tour of Russia next year. If Omar Shariff, an Egyptian actor, passed as Dr. Zhivago in that classic movie about Russia in their revolution....who knows I might do well there, unless times have changed too much.

[whosyourdaddy]

How do second and third tier Russian cities compare with Ukraine, Poland and other parts of EE? A good Pros/Cons rundown would be greatly appreciated.

If i am not mistaken, i don't think i've seen posts comparing 2nd/3rd tier Russia and other EE countries. Thanks.

[chochemonger1]

(08-26-2012 07:21 PM)whosyourdaddy Wrote:  

How do second and third tier Russian cities compare with Ukraine, Poland and other parts of EE? A good Pros/Cons rundown would be greatly appreciated.

If i am not mistaken, i don't think i've seen posts comparing 2nd/3rd tier Russia and other EE countries. Thanks.

Yes my friend.... it is still really unchartared waters. The few who know, explain in a way that cant be understood by most of us. We just have to go, learn and see what happens.

[Greek kamaki]

(08-26-2012 07:21 PM)whosyourdaddy Wrote:  

How do second and third tier Russian cities compare with Ukraine, Poland and other parts of EE? A good Pros/Cons rundown would be greatly appreciated.

If i am not mistaken, i don't think i've seen posts comparing 2nd/3rd tier Russia and other EE countries. Thanks.

I have only been in southern Russia(Krasnodarski kraj).
Pros:Very high concentration of hot women(in Ukraine many of them have already left).No malnutrished women as you see in Ukraine.

Cons:Strong nationalism.Only 10% or even less speak English(I spoke Russian so this is not a problem for me).Also they do not accept foreigners at all in some hotels!No matter where you come from you are not allowed to stay if you are not Russian.
Police very much in your face with strict controls and trying to scare the shit out of you(they only speak Russian as well)
Generally very unfriendly public personell.(nothing is allowed even the simplest things)
In small cities there are no banks open in weekend to change money.Noone accepts euro or dollars everyone wants rubles.
High prices due to artificially high price of ruble(Putin supported it)
(the above do not exist in Ukraine where prices in province are low,the grivnya devaluated and banks are open 15 hours a day and even on weekends to change money,moreover everyone accepts euro or dollar as payment).

Women generally not responsive to daygame(suspicious if you are a foreigner).I did not have the chance to try nightgame.
Lots of drunken bullies around who like to attack or at least shake foreigners(not Russians and not Slavs in general.Even Russians get harassed by them.They regard Russians as top,then other Slavs and then the rest and they behave accordingly).
Generally if you do not have connections to smoothen things a bit you will suffer.Nobody helps you with common stuff and a lot of things are forbidden.
Many of who will meet will try to rip you off since foreigners are regarded as gullible.Russians can change from one second to the other from the most pleasant,naive people to the most evil monsters.It is shocking to see the transformation happen this is sth you will never experience in the West.Generally they are very chameleontic.There is a lot to be told about Russians they are their own category in many things totally different folks from the rest.

The only advantage of travelling to Russia is that you can land an unreal hottie which you cannot in Ukraine because in the latter there are very few of them and mostly taken.In Russia there are whole lots of them so numbers work in your favour(there is less response statistically than in Ukraine bu the number of targets is vastly superior).Russian women always win in the long term and always ask for sth from you(they are not for free).

Russia has competely working infrastructure unlike Ukraine where everything was probably stolen after collapse of the USSR and the money was transferred to the West.Russian cities look better than polish cities in eastern Poland.They are impressive in the center as most soviet cities.They have all kinds of shops but not the number of goods as shops in western countries contain.The average salary is 500$ per month slightly less than in Poland and 2 times higher than in Ukraine.Between Ukraine and Russia there is huge difference in infrastructure and living conditions Russia is a functional country,Ukraine is a failed state.Foreigner's status is much higher in Ukraine than in Russia.

[Greek kamaki]

I think the best in provincial Russia is to have a girlfriend stay with her and let her arrange everything for you.Then you can be a Pasha(turkish name for Lord) as we say here.

[Spartan]

Greek, I think you are very correct about these things. The nationalism in Russia is a problem.

[The Fantasist]

Interesting opinion Greek about your experiences in Krasnodarski Krai. Maybe the nationalism you felt was more evident there what with it being a traditional Cossack region? I don't know if the nationalist feelings are as strong in other parts of Russia. Everyone will have different experiences but mine were the polar opposite.

My experience in provincial Russia:
I have only been outside of Moscow and Pieter once when I took a 12 hour train ride with a buddy East of Moscow into the Volga region ( Samara Region ). I know I've discussed that trip with some members previously but for those who I have not, it was a real eye opener. The people in general were immensely friendly especially the women. I remember being in a cafe with my I-phone out on the table. Three Gopniki were sitting at the next table and when they heard us speaking English one leaned over and advised me to hide my phone or it would be stolen. What he was implying was that HE would have stolen it had I not been a dumb foreigner! Any place where even the criminals look out for you is good in my eyes. Don't work like that in Moscow. We were in a town where tourists don't go and hence we were a real sight to behold for the locals. I went to the small shopping centre there whilst my friend went on a date with our hotel's bar woman and whilst queueing up to buy some sweets from a stall holder a group of girls gathered around me firing questions at me and giggling at my stupid answers just as was written in my friends post earlier in this thread. We got so many numbers in those three days,had dates,kiss closes and had nothing but great responses. People could not believe we were foreign and asked us to prove it by showing our passports. Funny. The town was also not run down but really well maintained,not an industrial shit hole as you imagine third tier to be. There was a club there playing cheesy R&B,cheap and full of immense talent,the hottest teenagers you have ever seen and unlike in Moscow very low bitch shields. Really good atmosphere. On our last night we were walking down the road when two girls hot walked past us on the street and said "good evening 'Vorkuta'" and laughed. They had heard of the two foreigners in town from some friends ( just as Greek described in his post about anonymity ) but it helped us,we were proofed. They took us to a bar where we danced,swapped numbers,had a grab of their asses and made promises etc. The problem was we had a train to catch the same night so no lay from them,I was so fucking tempted to stay. On our way to the station I got a sms from a girl I had met earlier asking if she could come say goodbye to me at the station. It was all too good to be true. The fact is I did not bang though. A couple of reasons: We did not pipeline and relied on day game and three days was not enough to fuck close. We spread ourselves too thin by meeting different women instead of concentrating on one ( I had three dates in one evening - that was complicated in a small town ). Also I was sharing a room with my mate so logistics were fucked which robbed my motivation to push for a close and tbh I'd been getting laid in Moscow so it was more of a reconnaissance trip ( that's my excuse anyway ). What it convinced me of was that if I had rented an apartment there for a month or two I would have been fucking the hottest women I have ever banged. It was too small to be banging a lot of women but I would have quite happily settled down for a couple of months with a stunning 20 year old and enjoyed a mini relationship.

That is not to say everyone will have a great experience like I did,there are so many factors contriving for or against you. If I'd visited in the summer maybe things would have been different or maybe a town 100km's down the road would not be as welcoming. You have to find your own paradise that suits you,your personality,budget,tastes etc.

I agree with what my friend said in the post of his I posted earlier about smaller towns being better for the wow factor however I agree with Greek too about less then a million meaning you get known which may not be beneficial. Therefore the solution is to find a town that is surrounded by other towns. Here is a photo I took of a random page in my Russian road atlas:
[attachment=7473]

What this shows is an area of European Russia. All the towns are third tier so if you rented an apartment in let's say Ivanovo ( for non Cyrillic readers it's the one near the bottom ending in the letter 'O' ) you would have 4 or 5 other hunting grounds to exhaust all within 100km of each other. Just think,that is about 20 to 30 provincial disco-clubs where you can run game without being known. You could visit them in rotation but having your base in one so that you have a comfortable set up,nice cheap apartment,gym membership,a small solid social circle for when you are bored. That set up suits me best as I don't like large cities as much,they are expensive and less personal. And egotistically I don't feel as 'special' in them but merely just another dude from the west.

For you guys who do like big cities then you could find a large million resident city but surrounded by other larger and smaller ones so you can have the best of both worlds like this:
[attachment=7474]
If you based yourself in Chelyabinsk you'd have the choice of Ekaterinburg and Ufa too and a host of little towns. You'd have untold thousands of women to pursue but you'd not be able to DHV your nationality as much since even the girls living in the smaller towns would have visited and probably spent a lot of time in the larger towns surrounding their shit hole and hence would not be so overawed by your mystique.

I have also spent a lot of time in Belarus in the provinces but only in the East of the country and that is notoriously hard to bang consistently in. The good thing about Belarus in comparison to Russia is it's damned cheap. You can rent apartments there for $200 USD a month. That won't get you shit in Russia. You can also eat very cheaply in Belarus if you don't mind eating in Stolovayas ( some are surprisingly good ) which are dirt cheap. Everything is cheap in Belarus but what you gain in your pocket you lose in the openness of the provincial women imo. In second tier Belarus I have failed miserably at times due to the women seeing a lone man as a sex tourist or just as someone to be hugely suspicious of. Don't rule it out as I have had some great times BUT it was not as relaxed as in Russia or anywhere near as manic and fun. There is a definite difference between Russians and Belarussians,the latter being more reserved. Better for an LTR maybe but not as much fun for trying some debauched short trips.

I have not been to second tier Ukraine except for a brief trip to Uzhgorod so any input into experiences there would be welcome.