[Veindarlin]

One of my middle school friends was an outgoing guy. We met because our parents were close friends. In high school, he dated three good looking girls and one of the girls he dated was from a rich and preppy private school. We knew each other although I was homeschooled and he went to the local public school. Mainly we played sports together and that is how our friendship really developed. So during summer vacation (after he had graduated high school) we visited Miami and he had the skill to attract a good looking 25 year old woman and bring her to our hotel, managed to make out with her.

This was about 2 years ago, he went off to college, completely different from where I would end up my first two years of college. He ended up going to an Ivy League school. Just after two years of meeting him we chatted and stuff and one guy we were with talked about how it is fun being young, single, and trying it out with different women. My friend yells and tells him to "grow up" and says this whole stuff is for immature folks who have emotional and mental issues. Then he goes off on a long speech by starting off saying "this is whats wrong with men like you!".

The guy we were with and I look at each other awkwardly, we were like "okaaayyy". So I go to talk to my friend who tells me to never do that to a woman and then says about how women are already "abused" and put in such "unfavorable" situations. He yells at me and says "don't ever be that guy".

For a while I was fearing this would happen, College Confidential was a primary warning sign I thought since it is full of kids hungry to get into elite universities and the attitudes there are very pro-feminist too. I used to go there for college admissions advice but got into a few discussions there.

Not just my friends though, a lot of Ivy League students I have met carry this whole type of attitude but maybe that is just me. I have never been to an Ivy League school and probably lack the high IQ needed to get in but what do you guys have to say about it?

[WestCoast]

(07-04-2012 12:19 AM)Veindarlin Wrote:  

One of my middle school friends was an outgoing guy. In high school, he dated three good looking girls and one of the girls he dated was from a rich and preppy private school. So after summer we visited Miami and he had the skill to attract a good looking 25 year old woman and bring her to our hotel, managed to make out with her.

This was about 2 years ago, he went off to college, completely different from where I would end up my first two years of college. He ended up going to an Ivy League school. Just after two years of meeting him we chatted and stuff and one guy we were talked about how it is fun being young, single, and trying it out with different women. My friend yells and tells him to "grow up" and says this whole stuff is for immature folks who have emotional and mental issues. Then he goes off on a long speech by starting off saying "this is whats wrong with men like you!".

The guy we were with and I look at each other awkwardly, we were like "okaaayyy". So I go to talk to my friend who tells me to never do that to a woman and then says about how women are already "abused" and put in such "unfavorable" situations. He yells at me and says "don't ever be that guy".

For a while I was fearing this would happen, College Confidential was a primary warning sign I thought since it is full of kids hungry to get into elite universities and the attitudes there are very pro-feminist too. I used to go there for college admissions advice but got into a few discussions there.

Not just my friends though, a lot of Ivy League students I have met carry this whole type of attitude but maybe that is just me. I have never been to an Ivy League school and probably lack the high IQ needed to get in but what do you guys have to say about it?

No.

[Samseau]

I know tons of guys like this.


1. They're in denial.

They want to fuck girls just like all the players here do: bang her ASAP, control of the relationship with plenty of raw dog sex, anal on demand, the ability to dump her at will.

but

2. They're brainwashed.

They believe that just because they go to an Ivy League University that somehow they're being fed special knowledge (read: ) that the masses don't have access to. They believe that the things the professors tell them are good for them (read: ) and true (read: ).



So on one hand, their primal instincts tell them they are missing out on the best pussy years of their life, and they confront it by unleashing their PC-fueled rage on non-believers.

I remember quite a few guys like that back in college, and I didn't even go to Ivy League. I somehow managed to mingle with a whole bunch of them by the time I got to Law School, though.


Don't worry about these guys. They're young and impressionable, and simply more meat for the grinder. Tell them your views, and let them wake up on their own

[WestCoast]

Thats pretty spot on.

Dear well educated college kids, pretend to agree with their feminism beliefs to get that A+. But once you turn in that paper you can tell all that "knowledge" c ya later.

[Hades]

I guess it's proof positive that getting sloppy can cause a relapse into beta-dom. This guy will change his views after his first divorce.
He'll probably be too full of vitriol after that sort of trauma for his awakening to do any good though, just another future manosphere type whiner or anti-feminazi game denialist.

[Vicious]

Athlone has written tons on this. Quite interesting even if you're past college.

[keepreal]

People are just less social, get to interacted with more lefties, and academically oriented in elite colleges. I went to a pretty elite college, I found it to bad for social life, then again I was also kind of different. People thought I talked too much about girls and random shit.

[Deluge]

Maybe it's because they didn't get laid once in college.

[Beachsidejarl]

When I was 13-14, feminism in Sweden was seriously peaking. You could trash men endlessly and if you even raised a voice, you were smeared as an out-of-touch sexist. Basically.

Now, I didn't participate in the debates, obviously, due to my age but I read a lot of the debates and saw what happened. Needless to say I was a militant anti-feminist with a burning passion.

As I've grown older, I still view feminism(such as it is) today with a disfavourable look. Having said that, however, I realize that feminism pre-1960s was a different thing, and much more pragmatic. What screwed up feminism is that it got caught up in the 60s radicals and marxists. That just killed it. It became extremely politically correct.

But if you look at the long arch of feminism, the true core issues, I support them. Equal wages, for one. But there is misogyny in this world. Just like the word 'tolerance' it has been abused and captured by a small radical elite to mean something else entirely. But just because the modern neo-marxist feminists are nutbags does not mean the original movement was not right on a lot of issues.

So my position is; why should I get tainted by a few nutjobs? It's more important to get to an independent assessment of the situation. Nonetheless, I am not calling myself a feminist because I realize that I am in the sane minority. I am also very skeptical of much of what the movement has become.

But I will say that within the pickup community there is a ugly streak. Some, but not all, but some, do view women as little more than fuckdolls/sluts to be used and then thrown away. A lot of folks won't admit it, but it's enough reading some of the off-the-cuff comments here to come to that conclusion. A lot of folks here still are mired in a whore/madonna complex.

Still, I view the whole pickup thing as a very good thing. Guys need this and feminists who bitch about it are usually just not very intelligent when it comes to social interactions. But some guys within the pickup community use the shield of the crazyness of the feminists to cover up their own questionable values.

The debate is black and white, in a sense. Either, some people seem to think, you're a crazed feminist or you're a woman-hating neanderthal. Neither have to be correct. But I will say that although we are more right about the feminists than they are about us, some of their more nuanced points are things I've observed. People hate it when you bring it up, but yes, a few people here have pretty dysfunctional views on women, which probably stems from the fact that many of them don't have women as very close friends(aside from clubbing out together etc) or maybe don't have successful relationships behind them. And so they give up and women and form these pretty hateful thoughtpatterns and sometimes that is transmissioned down to the newer guys. And some of these newer guys aren't mentally strong enough to differentiate concepts on women and don't get to filter the truth from that guy's personal bitterness about women.

[Neo]

Many of them have liberal/feminist/very PC beliefs. I'm not sure exactly what causes this trend.

It's product of their age and environment. Many are pushed into making lifelong decisions by some academic advisor who doesn't give two shits about them. I've known quite a few people who went to law school because 'It was the right thing to do' or 'I had a professor who was my mentor that suggested I do it.' Unfortunately that mentor is not there 3 years later when they're 250k in the hole.

Realistically it's hard to really think for yourself at those points.

Now expand this to other beliefs such as feminism. They are probably in social groups with girls who expound on these topics almost every conversation, so they just follow suit.

[Veindarlin]

something about guys who are doctors and white collar professionals that keeps them from scoring big with women

Guess it depends on which type of profession comes with that money rather than the money itself.

[Don_Johnson]

(07-04-2012 04:07 AM)Beachsidejarl Wrote:  

But if you look at the long arch of feminism, the true core issues, I support them. Equal wages, for one. But there is misogyny in this world. Just like the word 'tolerance' it has been abused and captured by a small radical elite to mean something else entirely. But just because the modern neo-marxist feminists are nutbags does not mean the original movement was not right on a lot of issues.

No.

Feminism is inherently Marxist. I don't think Feminism existed in any appreciable form prior to the rise of Communism.

Equal wages are irrelevant. Women should not be working, and even when they do - the vast majority do not do anything of any value for society. They simply waste precious resources on self delusion.

Allowing women to vote was the death knell of democracy. Speaking of which, there should be no democracy. Democracy only works when an elite group of men with a vested interest in the future are the only ones allowed to vote. Women cannot conceptualize anything beyond their immediate wants and needs, and are incapable of planning for the future.

If we revert to monarchy or aristocracy, all feminist arguments will be obviated.

[Vicious]

(07-04-2012 10:42 AM)Don_Johnson Wrote:  

No.

Feminism is inherently Marxist. I don't think Feminism existed in any appreciable form prior to the rise of Communism.

Equal wages are irrelevant. Women should not be working, and even when they do - the vast majority do not do anything of any value for society. They simply waste precious resources on self delusion.

Allowing women to vote was the death knell of democracy. Speaking of which, there should be no democracy. Democracy only works when an elite group of men with a vested interest in the future are the only ones allowed to vote. Women cannot conceptualize anything beyond their immediate wants and needs, and are incapable of planning for the future.

If we revert to monarchy or aristocracy, all feminist arguments will be obviated.

Let me guess, you just registered after having not only been badly burned by a bitch but charred to the bone?

[hunter7]

edit

[XXL]

naah, university has little to do with it. in anything maybe he found his calling or something. he just moved on with his life and concentrated on other things. that's all. sure, he overreacted with his comments but that's cause in his version of reality he is mature now so he wants to show how cool he has got. it's very common behaviour with guys who achieved something they suddenly think they're above silly games whick makes them look down on people that are on the other side of the fence.

don't take it seriously and just let him be like he is

[Caligula]

Samseau is spot on. I went to an elite college and didn't end up like that, but a lot of my peers did.

I was already very skeptical when I got to university. Many of my peers would swallow whole anything they heard from the mouth of someone with tenure. Or believe anything written in a book simply because the title page had "University Press" on it. They read these books packed with received wisdom disguised as rigorous academic discourse and come to see it as The Truth. Ironically intelligent people - especially the kind of studious rote-learners that elite college admissions select for - are more susceptible to this kind of hoodwinking than the less bright. Intelligent guys are usually less in touch with their id.

At best my education was neutral to the development of my game. Developing my game was probably held back a bit by intensive studying. But it's not the education as such that undermines your game, it's being more susceptible to the PC Kool Aid that does it.

[rlongo924]

A TON of people I know that went to really good colleges have a totally different attitude now that they did before hand. Like they're completely different people and think of themselves as more "mature" and "grown up". Honestly, a lot of them are just really pretentious and basically assholes.

Samseau hit the nail on the head. Their brainwashed, and think that just because they went to an ivy that they know more than the rest of us about everything. Very annoying sometimes. But it does definitely hurt them with game because they come off as snobby and it turns a lot of people off from them for sure.

[HiFlo]

Elite universities do NOT hurt game.

In fact, having attended both, folks really aren't that much different, except that you're gonna become friends with a lot more well-connected guys (& their families) in elite unis that state unis.

I would offer the fact that by attending an elite uni, it does tremendous rewards for your INNER game.

Sorry to say, but OP's post actually sounds like backward-rationalization for the fact that he may not have been able to get into one.

Remember, people are people. There are gonna be cool ppl & shitty ppl at both private and public unis. On the whole though, it pays in both lifelong career aspirations as well as long-term poontang potential to go to Harvard as opposed to Arkansas State University.

As an addendum, this post is much like saying, "by joining the marines does it make u a pretentious asshole unable to pickup chicks compared to guys who didn't join the service." It is what you make it. And it is what you are inside & what you want to become.

[Beachsidejarl]

(07-04-2012 10:42 AM)Don_Johnson Wrote:  

(07-04-2012 04:07 AM)Beachsidejarl Wrote:  

But if you look at the long arch of feminism, the true core issues, I support them. Equal wages, for one. But there is misogyny in this world. Just like the word 'tolerance' it has been abused and captured by a small radical elite to mean something else entirely. But just because the modern neo-marxist feminists are nutbags does not mean the original movement was not right on a lot of issues.

No.

Feminism is inherently Marxist. I don't think Feminism existed in any appreciable form prior to the rise of Communism.

Equal wages are irrelevant. Women should not be working, and even when they do - the vast majority do not do anything of any value for society. They simply waste precious resources on self delusion.

Allowing women to vote was the death knell of democracy. Speaking of which, there should be no democracy. Democracy only works when an elite group of men with a vested interest in the future are the only ones allowed to vote. Women cannot conceptualize anything beyond their immediate wants and needs, and are incapable of planning for the future.

If we revert to monarchy or aristocracy, all feminist arguments will be obviated.

Can't really make up my mind if you're trolling or just incredibly stupid and bitter. Maybe both.

[soup]

You can't kill game. That's like killing math.

[joehoya]

Going to an elite university (especially one of the top Ivies) can be a MAJOR mind fuck for a lot of kids.

The first part of the mindfuck is realizing that you are no longer the smartest guy at school. The guy in the OP's story was probably used to blowing away everyone else since he was in kindergarten. Now he steps into a school where he is probably just average. That is a major adjustment.

The second part of the mind fuck is the level of focus the kids have at these schools. The OP's friend may have been a hard worker, but at many of the Ivies a HUGE number (but not all) of these kids have a level of focus that is extremely rare outside of elite academic institutions.

As an example, did anyone else have a guy in their high school (or perhaps college) that would fight for EVERY SINGLE POINT on EVERY SINGLE TEST? The kind of guy that would argue with the teacher that he should have received an A instead of an A-. Imagine a school where the majority of people are like that. Imagine a school where students look at every point on a particular assignment and see how that effects the overall grade of the assignment, which effects the final grade for the course, which will effect their GPA, which will effect what type of grad school they get into, which will effect what type of job they get after graduate school, etc.

I remember when I switched from a small state school to an elite (non Ivy) university. The level of focus those students and the level of seriousness they displayed was impressive. I remember coming from a state school, having a 4.0 gpa, and being astounded that no matter what I did, I couldn't break B+/A- for my Microeconomics course at my new school. The most telling moment for me was during the review of our grades for the second mid-term somebody got an 98% on the test (I got an 89% on a test I busted my ass studying for). The professor looked at it and joked with the rest of us, saying "I don't think I could have gotten a 98% on this test."

Being in an environment like that just forces you to up your game in terms of study habits and taking life seriously. Also, no matter how much we think we are independent thinkers, are personalities are molded heavily by those around us, ESPECIALLY in the high school and college years. If you go to a school full of slackers, you WILL start slacking off more, or find yourself ostracized. Conversely, if you go to a school where the majority of folks are hyper-intense about their education and careers it WILL effect you.

One more thing. Comparing the sex habits in a small state school vs an elite school. In my experience, there was WAY MORE fucking going on at the state school. Dudes at the state school were WAY MORE predatory, some to the point bordering on date-rape. If a girl went to a party alone and kept drinking to the point of passing out, she was probably getting fucked. Seriously. Dudes at the state school went direct and went hard. More importantly, girls responded to that shit. They also fucked more frequently.

At the elite school, a girl might make out with a different guys at different parties (not two guys at the same party, however), but it wasn't as common to fuck them that quickly. Getting a random chick shitfaced on vodka/hawaiian punch combos and fucking her in your dorm-room while she drifts in an out of consciousness would get you an immediate hearing with the disciplinary board and possible suspension/expulsion. At the state school, that was Standard Operating Procedure for at least 3 guys on my floor and none of the chicks complained.

[WestCoast]

I agree with a ton of this. The one thing I disagree with is the "competition at elite universities". Sounds like you went from a state to a top 40 or something. Once you start talking top 5, people get spoiled an it's really not that hard to do well from my experience. Hell, Yale law school just has a "pass fail" system.. Show me dudes who are "failing" the trick is just getting in.

Yeah the rest is pretty spot on, cute girls at hard universities get massive egos and feel like they are the shit. Dont know if I would call it "expulsion for being a slut" but more like prude because they think their pussy is worth more than bill gates' bank account.

(07-05-2012 07:36 AM)joehoya Wrote:  

Going to an elite university (especially one of the top Ivies) can be a MAJOR mind fuck for a lot of kids.

The first part of the mindfuck is realizing that you are no longer the smartest guy at school. The guy in the OP's story was probably used to blowing away everyone else since he was in kindergarten. Now he steps into a school where he is probably just average. That is a major adjustment.

The second part of the mind fuck is the level of focus the kids have at these schools. The OP's friend may have been a hard worker, but at many of the Ivies a HUGE number (but not all) of these kids have a level of focus that is extremely rare outside of elite academic institutions.

As an example, did anyone else have a guy in their high school (or perhaps college) that would fight for EVERY SINGLE POINT on EVERY SINGLE TEST? The kind of guy that would argue with the teacher that he should have received an A instead of an A-. Imagine a school where the majority of people are like that. Imagine a school where students look at every point on a particular assignment and see how that effects the overall grade of the assignment, which effects the final grade for the course, which will effect their GPA, which will effect what type of grad school they get into, which will effect what type of job they get after graduate school, etc.

I remember when I switched from a small state school to an elite (non Ivy) university. The level of focus those students and the level of seriousness they displayed was impressive. I remember coming from a state school, having a 4.0 gpa, and being astounded that no matter what I did, I couldn't break B+/A- for my Microeconomics course at my new school. The most telling moment for me was during the review of our grades for the second mid-term somebody got an 98% on the test (I got an 89% on a test I busted my ass studying for). The professor looked at it and joked with the rest of us, saying "I don't think I could have gotten a 98% on this test."

Being in an environment like that just forces you to up your game in terms of study habits and taking life seriously. Also, no matter how much we think we are independent thinkers, are personalities are molded heavily by those around us, ESPECIALLY in the high school and college years. If you go to a school full of slackers, you WILL start slacking off more, or find yourself ostracized. Conversely, if you go to a school where the majority of folks are hyper-intense about their education and careers it WILL effect you.

One more thing. Comparing the sex habits in a small state school vs an elite school. In my experience, there was WAY MORE fucking going on at the state school. Dudes at the state school were WAY MORE predatory, some to the point bordering on date-rape. If a girl went to a party alone and kept drinking to the point of passing out, she was probably getting fucked. Seriously. Dudes at the state school went direct and went hard. More importantly, girls responded to that shit. They also fucked more frequently.

At the elite school, a girl might make out with a different guys at different parties (not two guys at the same party, however), but it wasn't as common to fuck them that quickly. Getting a random chick shitfaced on vodka/hawaiian punch combos and fucking her in your dorm-room while she drifts in an out of consciousness would get you an immediate hearing with the disciplinary board and possible suspension/expulsion. At the state school, that was Standard Operating Procedure for at least 3 guys on my floor and none of the chicks complained.

[joehoya]

(07-05-2012 08:05 AM)WestCoast Wrote:  

I agree with a ton of this. The one thing I disagree with is the "competition at elite universities". Sounds like you went from a state to a top 40 or something. Once you start talking top 5, people get spoiled an it's really not that hard to do well from my experience. Hell, Yale law school just has a "pass fail" system.. Show me dudes who are "failing" the trick is just getting in....

True. My undergrad was top 25 (non-Ivy), grad was top 5 (Ivy). But grad school is a completely different animal, so I wasn't considering it at all. Almost all of the folks in my grad program had work experience, so we aren't talking fresh faced college kids (age rrange was probably mid-twenties to late thirties). More importantly, there was virtually no competition at grad school, it's much more cooperative.

[Hades]

I will never believe that the quality of kids is higher at an Ivy League school. I will believe that the egos of professors are much larger, however. Many of them believe that because they teach at a prestigious school, they are celebrities. This is not true.

There was this scandal about the Stanford Effect (I think) where they kept two sets of gradebooks. One set had Cs, Ds, arsehole grades. Their net average was much lower than everyone thought it should be (below Harvard). The next set of gradebooks took the actual grades and inflated them so everyone (overall) averaged something like an 87%. A lot of people got into deep shit about that.

As for "Do Elite Universities Kill Game?", I would say no. Tucker Max did graduate with honors from Duke, in 3 years I think.

[WestCoast]

Anyone who thinks elite university kills game is bat shit crazy.

"I will never believe that the quality of kids is higher at an Ivy League school."

I would be extremely careful about that comment. The quality absolutely is higher based on sheer acceptance/difficulty to get in. Usually people who say that are just jealous/not admitting they are not cognitively as smart as other people.

I have no shame in saying I've met some cats who make me feel like I am mentally retarded relative to their skillset.

Elite universities are elite for a reason. It is "easier to get A's" because how do you fail a kid with a 170 IQ versus a 171.

(07-05-2012 08:21 AM)Hades Wrote:  

I will never believe that the quality of kids is higher at an Ivy League school. I will believe that the egos of professors are much larger, however. Many of them believe that because they teach at a prestigious school, they are celebrities. This is not true.

There was this scandal about the Stanford Effect (I think) where they kept two sets of gradebooks. One set had Cs, Ds, arsehole grades. Their net average was much lower than everyone thought it should be (below Harvard). The next set of gradebooks took the actual grades and inflated them so everyone (overall) averaged something like an 87%. A lot of people got into deep shit about that.

As for "Do Elite Universities Kill Game?", I would say no. Tucker Max did graduate with honors from Duke, in 3 years I think.