[Eliogabalus]

I've always wondered how common could really happen for a woman to date a man who looks substantially less favoured in regards of his physical appearance. I've seen some clear examples but in many of those cases there was an external factor which could play decisive role in the final ecuation. We have numerous examples of those wealthy men whom although not being physically attractive (even in most cases below average) they are able to pull younger and prettier women for the merely fact they carry a fat wallet into their pockets. Women basically look to settle down specially those in the 25+ range, and they will look for a man in a financial situation as solid as possible, hence usually setting for a man considerably older than themselves.

Would couples like that normally exist if there wouldn't be money/fame and other external decisive factors aside physical appearance?



The girl is beautiful and the guy looks like an ugly mofo, although they both are famous and have money.




Here another case of beautiful girl with ugly/average at best guy, same as the former case both with money and fame

How frequent are those cases in your area considering nor the girl or the guy are particularly rich or famous celebrities?

[R-oo-sh-isbadmod]

Are you serious? Both of them aren't even that hot. Maybe the 2nd one but she looks like absolute shit in that picture whereas he is suited up and looks fly.

[Deluge]

He sees them as being uber hot because they're natural blondes and have "Germanic" features. It's an obsession that's in every single one of his posts.



The dude in the second picture is the actor who played Ari Gold in Entourage.

[WanderingSoul]

The second pic isn't Jeremy Piven, actor who plays Ari Gold, but it does look like him. But that dude in the second pic is a decent looking guy who dresses like a stud. I think he could upgrade from the zombie looking girl he is with.

[HiFlo]

The 2nd picture is David Williams and Lara Stone. He's a british comedian. They're married.

The girl's one of the ten most popular models in the world

[HiFlo]

in the first picture, the guy is the world's number one golfer, rory mcilroy and the girls one of the best tennis players in the world, Caroline Wozniacki.

I don't see the issue here?

[Eliogabalus]

(04-22-2012 02:22 AM)HiFlo Wrote:  

in the first picture, the guy is the world's number one golfer, rory mcilroy and the girls one of the best tennis players in the world, Caroline Wozniacki.

I don't see the issue here?

Those were examples of unbalanced couples (specially the first one), and the question was if such unbalanced couples, where the girl is dating down, happen among average people (who aren exceptionally rich or famous) at a decent rate. Its based on an explanation many guys give when they witness similar situations and they always assume the uglier/older man is either rich or give some kind of status.

[HiFlo]

since when is being the world's number one golfer not high-status?

These are terrible examples of unbalanced couples.

Here's a good example:

[Eliogabalus]

(04-22-2012 02:27 AM)HiFlo Wrote:  

since when is being the world's number one golfer not high-status?

These are terrible examples of unbalanced couples.

Here's a good example:

I just gave those pictures as examples to picture the difference of physical beauty among the couples, obviously ignoring the factor all those people involved have either money and/or status.


I was wondering if a random guy like rory mcilroy could pull a girl like wozniacki being the former not rich or famous, considering caroline wozniacki accepting such relationship would be obviously dating down. Got my point now?

[HiFlo]

what difference does it make? You should be more concerned with your own developement and life than the bullshit gossip of the rich & famous published in tabloids.

[Basil Ransom]

Yes, I think it does happen, but it's happening less and less nowadays. Couple reasons:

1. Women feel less and less pressure to have a man monogamously commit to them. They sleep with men who won't commit to them, who are better looking generally than the men who will. Hooking up with handsome men raises their visual standards.
2. Women are becoming more masculine, and provider traits are becoming less valuable, making looks more important.

In America, outside of social circles, I find it hard to date up, and it's not even a matter of your game at that point. Another option is having a 'seat of power,' where you exercise authority over attractive women, making them fall for you. Imagine the manager of a shitty restaurant banging the cute waitresses. On absolute terms, he's making $35k with a shitty job, but he's slaying top shelf pussy because he's well placed to do it. Hell, he's probably doing better than some freshly minted law school grad making $160k at a top law firm.

So a short list of where men have the easiest time dating up:

1. Social circles, especially when paired with preselection
2. Seat of power
3. Celebrity/Status, even if obscure
4. Scenes with a high attractive female: male ratio (eg working in fashion)

I'm probably forgetting some.

[Gmac]

Seriously OP? Those pictures are the complete opposite of your post.

Dating "down" for women can be attributed to pretty much three things:

Low self-esteem
Wealth
Game

[UrbanNerd]

Oh the other hand...I WANNA be that guy "dating up". I hope every damn time someone sees me with a chick, they ask "How did he get her??"

Isn't that the goal?

[Hotwheels]

Going strictly by appearance damn near every broad I've been with has dated down.

[OGNorCal707]

(04-22-2012 10:52 AM)basilransom Wrote:  

Yes, I think it does happen, but it's happening less and less nowadays. Couple reasons:

1. Women feel less and less pressure to have a man monogamously commit to them. They sleep with men who won't commit to them, who are better looking generally than the men who will. Hooking up with handsome men raises their visual standards.
2. Women are becoming more masculine, and provider traits are becoming less valuable, making looks more important.

In America, outside of social circles, I find it hard to date up, and it's not even a matter of your game at that point. Another option is having a 'seat of power,' where you exercise authority over attractive women, making them fall for you.

I think this is right on the $$... This seems like an unprecedented shift when compared to previous eras in human history. Before it was more important for a woman to protect her social reputation, marry a man who would be loyal and provide for her, and finally have kids and raise a family.

Now women are acting like alpha males, having sex with multiple people, and constantly trying to "date up", and move on to the next best guy (whether that be taller, buffer, more handsome, richer, etc.)

Also I really believe the abundance for attractive women and male female ratios play some of the biggest roles in this. For average people, not talking mismatched couples where the guy is mega rich with a hot young gold digging trophy wife, the only way women are typically dating down on a large scale is when they outnumber men.

Many of us have heard how there are more single women than men in Russia, and a very large number of attractive women at that. It creates a situation where guys who aren't the greatest looking are dating hotter women, just because of the nature of pure logistics.

Now if you're on the flipside of that say some shit town in Alaska where men outnumber women 3 to 1 and the hottest women are only 7's, it's going to create a lot of situations where a 8 handsome guy, dates a 5 busted girl.

[Scott]

It's fairly common.

[Bad Hussar]

Considered "holistically" noone, man or woman, ever dates down. If they could date someone better they would be dating them. But I see you're only asking about looks, specifically hot chicks with much less attractive men.

Does it happen? Absolutely. I'd have jumped off a bridge by now if it wasn't the case. I know this may have been educated in the West in recent years, and therefore this may come as a surprise to you, but men and women place very different weight on particular personal attributes when sizing up a potential mate. Just get it through your skull that, for the average woman, good looks in a man is not anywhere remotely close to as important as a womans good looks are to a man. It's not like it has no value. It just has much less value than you think.

To be honest, if you are already a very powerful (usually, but not necesarrilly also rich) man, adding good looks probably does you more harm than good. I know it sounds weird, but if you push all her other buttons hard, adding good looks is likely to "offend" her in some strange way. And, no, dont ask, becasuse I can't properly explain why this is. It's just an iobservation. The best situation for a player is probably to be very rich and powerful, but also quite ugly. That way chicks can see a way that maybe, just maybe, they will be able to reel in this fish. Ironically having one major weakness, provided you are very strong in all other ways, will improve your outcome.

[lurker123123]

its common, the average woman in the 18-30 is better looking than the average man due to makeup. a woman that is considered an 8 by most is easier to find than a man that is considered an 8

[rudebwoy]

(04-22-2012 02:19 AM)HiFlo Wrote:  

The 2nd picture is David Williams and Lara Stone. He's a british comedian. They're married.

The girl's one of the ten most popular models in the world

Yes and he is gay, this is a blatant cover-up. She is young so give it a few years til you see the divorce.

[Basil Ransom]

(04-22-2012 04:20 PM)Bad Hussar Wrote:  

Considered "holistically" noone, man or woman, ever dates down. If they could date someone better they would be dating them.

False, for men. If that were true, the quality of woman a man dates would be consistent - eg, your buddy Dave would always date 8s, and never less. But the reality is that men approach, women choose, and men will often go through periods where only "sub-par" women want what he has to offer. One year he's dating an 8, another a 7, yet that doesn't mean his intrinsic value has changed. In addition to that, circumstances change, and the quality of women you can pull fluctuates.

(04-22-2012 04:20 PM)Bad Hussar Wrote:  

men and women place very different weight on particular personal attributes when sizing up a potential mate. Just get it through your skull that, for the average woman, good looks in a man is not anywhere remotely close to as important as a womans good looks are to a man. It's not like it has no value. It just has much less value than you think.

To be honest, if you are already a very powerful (usually, but not necesarrilly also rich) man, adding good looks probably does you more harm than good. I know it sounds weird, but if you push all her other buttons hard, adding good looks is likely to "offend" her in some strange way. And, no, dont ask, becasuse I can't properly explain why this is. It's just an iobservation. The best situation for a player is probably to be very rich and powerful, but also quite ugly. That way chicks can see a way that maybe, just maybe, they will be able to reel in this fish. Ironically having one major weakness, provided you are very strong in all other ways, will improve your outcome.

Lol, recommending a player be ugly totally shreds your credibility here. When girls have found me and told me that I was attractive, I've never felt it to be a disadvantage. I can't recall a legendary player like Porfirio Rubirosa ever lamenting his looks. Looks are much more important when cold approaching in loud hostile environments, less so in the favorable ones I mentioned.

OG, continuing with what I said, first girls started projecting onto guys what they themselves wanted. So girls assumed guys want a "confident, strong" partner just like girls did. Now we've gotten to the second stage, where girls are aping male preferences and tactics, in part by ascribing more importance to male looks.



Something I have noticed - fat girls seem more vocal and aggressive in admiring and courting attractive men. I was at a bar not too long ago, where after a bunch of girls in underwear pranced around on a catwalk, they had some jacked shirtless guy come out. I was standing near a couple girls, and was surprised to see the FAT GIRL touching her cute friend excitedly on the shoulder, going "OMG look at him, he's so hot!" while the cute friend was pretty indifferent to the whole spectacle.

I see this sort of behavior among fatties increasing sharply, this bald objectification of men much much hotter than them.

[Kish]

Quick answer: Not common at all.

http://www.rooshv.com/the-secret-to-land...ment-54944
Comment from Roosh's Blog.
You all have to understand where women’s hunger for alphamales comes from. THEY WANT THEIR SONS TO HAVE REPRODUCTIVE SUCCESS. Having a beta or omega son could be the same as having a homosexual son. The reason for disappointment is the same. No grandchildren and end of the genetic line. Almost all women throughout history manage to reproduce. A huge percent of men don’t. That’s why women have the desire hardwired.
Asking women to settle is the same as asking a man to not crave good looks and fertility.
Women don’t even need alphas to be husbands. They’re happy to share alphas. All they want is that alpha seed. The seed is key.

[Eliogabalus]

(04-22-2012 07:18 PM)rakishness Wrote:  

Quick answer: Not common at all.

http://www.rooshv.com/the-secret-to-land...ment-54944
Comment from Roosh's Blog.
You all have to understand where women’s hunger for alphamales comes from. THEY WANT THEIR SONS TO HAVE REPRODUCTIVE SUCCESS. Having a beta or omega son could be the same as having a homosexual son. The reason for disappointment is the same. No grandchildren and end of the genetic line.Almost all women throughout history manage to reproduce. A huge percent of men don’t. That’s why women have the desire hardwired.
Asking women to settle is the same as asking a man to not crave good looks and fertility.
Women don’t even need alphas to be husbands. They’re happy to share alphas. All they want is that alpha seed. The seed is key.

That thing of "manage to reproduce" is far fetched from reality because many men actually don't have the inner desire to reproduce, maybe in countries like india or nigeria that would be different but not in the majority of the modern world.

The women who are supposed to adore to share the alphas and their seed make in reality only a small portion of the women's populations. Its a breed of women that has a completly mainstream ridden mentality with shallowness being the norm of their behaviour and usually fit right in the gold digger label. The thing is you might notice it way more often than not because remarkable pretty women who most guys in this forum are focusing to, are a real minority in the anglo world, hence those girls know their real worth/price and the bar of dating for a guy gets higher and higher. Considering the facts previously mentioned we have a poll of 90% of women in the anglo countries who do not fit in what we are looking for, in the other hand the tiny minority who are sought after by most guys become spoiled and have tendencies to turn into gold diggers, act superficial/bitchy, fill in with any other perverse western attitude, etc.
Its no surprise to me that most guys became pussies for a similar reason, and try to settle for anything they can date no matter what it actually looks like, specially considering the very low proportion of really beautiful women in the anglo world vs all desperate guys with zero game ready to settle for the first whale they might find on street.

[xsplat]

(04-22-2012 11:25 AM)UrbanNerd Wrote:  

Oh the other hand...I WANNA be that guy "dating up". I hope every damn time someone sees me with a chick, they ask "How did he get her??"

Isn't that the goal?

Exactly. It is commonly assumed that my girlfriends MUST be prostitutes.

And that is how it should be.

If the old matrons aren't shooting daggers, you are doing it wrong.

[xsplat]

(04-22-2012 04:20 PM)Bad Hussar Wrote:  

Considered "holistically" noone, man or woman, ever dates down. If they could date someone better they would be dating them. But I see you're only asking about looks, specifically hot chicks with much less attractive men.

Does it happen? Absolutely. I'd have jumped off a bridge by now if it wasn't the case. I know this may have been educated in the West in recent years, and therefore this may come as a surprise to you, but men and women place very different weight on particular personal attributes when sizing up a potential mate. Just get it through your skull that, for the average woman, good looks in a man is not anywhere remotely close to as important as a womans good looks are to a man. It's not like it has no value. It just has much less value than you think.

To be honest, if you are already a very powerful (usually, but not necesarrilly also rich) man, adding good looks probably does you more harm than good. I know it sounds weird, but if you push all her other buttons hard, adding good looks is likely to "offend" her in some strange way. And, no, dont ask, becasuse I can't properly explain why this is. It's just an iobservation. The best situation for a player is probably to be very rich and powerful, but also quite ugly. That way chicks can see a way that maybe, just maybe, they will be able to reel in this fish. Ironically having one major weakness, provided you are very strong in all other ways, will improve your outcome.

Ya, ugly man game works well with the beta bait and switch. Seeing you the girl will think you couldn't possibly be a player, and you play on that by tantalizing her with offers of provisioning.

She'll then think she's a spider and has you in her web. Then comes the switch part. You seduce her to fall in love with you. By the time she's emotionally hooked your offers of provisioning will be forgotten. Then slowly you reveal your player ways. She's a spider, but you are a spider eating bird.

[Basil Ransom]

In a sense, it NEVER happens - women NEVER date down. That is, a girl will never date a man to whom she feels superior.

Here's a brief story. In college, my friend starts hooking up with this cute sweet girl. Eventually, they cease contact, though he still wanted her, and she starts dating some huge football player or something, who at least for this girl, outclassed my friend. The backstory was that the girl had transferred from another college, where I believe the girls were hotter and the guys were lamer. So my friend was probably an upgrade. But as she spent time at my school, she rejiggered her social compass in line with everyone else, that says, more or less Athletes = Hot. Spend enough time around hot transfers, and you'll see this is a common occurrence, where they raise their standards from what they once were. And my friend was more of a grandpa than a badass. So my friend didn't seem so special any more. Was my friend dating up, down or what?

It's all in her head. If her circumstances have made you appear to be a high value male, then she is dating up. If she has easy access to men of your caliber or better, then she isn't.

On a simple, broad level, I see what guys mean by dating up/down - looking at the guy, you ask "is this girl significantly hotter than I'd expect, given what he looks like and his background?" But on a specific, individual level, it's problematic - the hotness of the girl you get can vary a lot with your circumstances. That's why there's a whole travel forum dedicated to trading tips on where to find the hottest women who will bang you.