[Aliblahba]

The region doesn't get a lot of attention on the forum, so I wanted to bring up a couple of points as to why the Middle East shouldn't be discarded for a long term destination.

Firstly, it's all about location. It's well, in the middle. A 7 hour flight will land you either in Central Europe or SE Asia. That's an easy flight to 2 totally different worlds, both being fertile hunting grounds.

Head north and you have EE, including Georgia, which is an untapped resource, with the flight costing less than $300. Even closer is Egypt and Greece/Crete/Cyprus, which have top resorts which provide places to swoop for 4 day weekend getaways. And don't forget E. Africa. No one on the forum has ever complained about Ethiopia of the Nubian beauties it breeds. Again, a short and cheap flight away.

On top of that, some of the world's best rated airlines are out of the region, like Etihad and Qatar Airways.

Secondly, the diversity. The region is a melting pot. Women from all over come here for work. Indian, Filipino, Sri Lankan, EE, British, ect. You don't have to leave your backyard to score something off the buffet. Because of this, the food selection is phenomenal. The only place you'll find this level of Lebanese food is Michigan, and who the fuck wants to go there, period? It's nice to be in a place where so many cultures are living together, with minimum drama.

Thirdly, money. As long as oil is pumping, jobs will be bountiful. And westerners are sought out. Marketing, finance, trades, selling ass...it's all here. If you have your shit together, you'll make it here, no worries.

There's more, I'm just tired of typing. I'll add more later. Bottom line though, don't discard the region, especially in your career path. There's a lot going on over here, especially for the success driven players.

[makher]

Why live within commuting distance of pussy paradise when you could live IN pussy paradise? Life is too short to be constantly plotting vacations from your reality. Find a way to live in the place that moves you.

The Middle East is what I term a structural sausage fest.
Why would you insert yourself into such a situation?
The expatriate populations are mostly male.
A lot of the countries are dry.
Culture and religion render off limits large portions of the female population.
Some of the most intriguing countries are quite unstable (Iran, Lebanon).
I don't think people appreciate how urban planning or the lack thereof affects your possibilities for spontaneous interactions with women.

Don't do it.

[tomtud]

Ali, its not all roses here, nor is it anywhere else. There are pluses nd minuses for sure. But for chasing tail, this place ain't the front runner for sure. The ME is for making money, experience and getting out. Never will you here from a person " ohhhh, I met a quaint little place in Qatar, dubai, Saudi etc. to retire". It's get in and get out.

I am here since August 2011. Now if you like to sleep in forget about it here. The call to prayer will usually wake you up from the mosques. But, you are safe. Nobody will rob you nor harass you. In some places a woman can leave her purse on a busy sidewalk in the market and nobody will even touch it. It can be there a week or longer till the cleaners come around. Now, that would never happen elsewhere.

Living here is getting easier the longer that I am here. Trick is to find a social circle, kep busy, go to the gym etc. like Ali said, many flights and destinations nearby that you can go on for a long weekend.

The cost of living here is steep. No taxes but everything is imported for the most part. For example the big Mac combo number 1 is 17qar. About $5 usd. But, a corona at a bar is 50qar.

There is value here, just have to find it. Qatar along with oil has the 3 rd largest reserve of natural gas in the world. So, with the world cup coming in 10 years, it will be a busy place for sure.

[Deb Auchery]

I have only been to Dubai, it was an interesting place, but I don't think it's much of a place for a human being to be,it's desert for christ's sake. Salaries and tax-free benefits are good, but it's expensive.

If I need to escape the pussy, or my internet empire takes a turn for the worst, I might consider working there for a while.

[scotian]

The tax free salary is probably the main thing that would draw me to a place like the ME, it certainly wouldn't be the weather. Ali, has the economy in the UAE picked up since the bust a couple of years ago I've worked along with a few Indian engineers in Canada who had previously worked in Dubai, and they couldn't wait to get back there once the economy improved, and after that got their Canadian passport, of course.

[nmmoooreland20]

(03-29-2012 11:35 AM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

It's nice to be in a place where so many cultures are living together, with minimum drama.

....?

Granted my only experience in the ME is Israel a couple times and Petra, I never heard of the ME as a great place for cultures to get along...

[OGNorCal707]

(03-29-2012 11:35 AM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

Thirdly, money. As long as oil is pumping, jobs will be bountiful. And westerners are sought out. Marketing, finance, trades, selling ass...it's all here. If you have your shit together, you'll make it here, no worries.

There's more, I'm just tired of typing. I'll add more later. Bottom line though, don't discard the region, especially in your career path. There's a lot going on over here, especially for the success driven players.

Any chance you can hook a brother up with a job that pays $100,000 + a year?

[scotian]

(03-29-2012 05:22 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

(03-29-2012 11:35 AM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

Thirdly, money. As long as oil is pumping, jobs will be bountiful. And westerners are sought out. Marketing, finance, trades, selling ass...it's all here. If you have your shit together, you'll make it here, no worries.

There's more, I'm just tired of typing. I'll add more later. Bottom line though, don't discard the region, especially in your career path. There's a lot going on over here, especially for the success driven players.

Any chance you can hook a brother up with a job that pays $100,000 + a year?

OGNorCal707, if you want a high paying, tax free job in the ME, you have to first acquire the skills to get hired, best place for you to do that right now is North Dakota.

[sammybiker]

Shhhhhh Ali, the ME is full of terrorists and women hating ragheads...

Don't let these kids believe anything else.

That's all. Masalam.

[Aliblahba]

Fourthly, language. English is the universal language here. The language barrier doesn't exist.

But yeah, sammybiker is right, the ME sucks. Dont ever come here. It's next level player shit anyway. Stick to Columbia and Thailand.

[Pilgrim37]

Short trips fine...long stay is a no no...you'll be pulling your hair out.

For UAE ,unless you're a committed Muslim and think traipsing round a shopping mall is a good day/night out I'd steer clear!

My Dad worked as a manager in construction in Saudi,Kuwait,Egypt,Dubai and Bahrain over 4-5 years....as soon as the contract ended he was out of there and didn't look back!

Saudi and Kuwait a complete no go for any Westerner with a pulse and will to live.
Why do you think rich gulf Arabs decamp to London,Paris,Marbella etc ...it's not just to avoid the heat...it's so they can spend their money on something other than another set of gold taps!

I guess for the Indian engineers it might be paradise ,but for most Westerners who don't need the Sheikh's coin it's a pass!

Having said that a lot working class Brits think Dubai is great...it's their idea of a classy place...so I guess if you're just into Bling Bling it is...I'm glad they have somewhere to go!

[brownman]

All of you make valid points. I've lived in the region 18 years before moving to the Midwestern US for college. I have 15 notches but attribute it to not fucking up, my upper middle class background and having decent looks. I’ll try to break it down

Westerners, it may seem like a backwards region, but there are plenty of opportunities. Most people stick to their own kind though that is slowly changing. Its dirt cheap on the salary you’re paid and you have all the amenities back home. It’s just that the way of life here is different. You are all well travelled, I’m sure the weirdness can’t be that bad.

Due to the insane ratio, most guys peacock hard and direct day game – my female friends and sisters have told me that they get hit on several times a day AGGRESSIVELY. Girls have their pick – the catch is most of these guys have no clue what game is. If we are MMA fighters, these guys are street brawlers. Though every year it seems like they are doing it less.

Gaming here occurs in several forms, for younger girls (18-23), you will need to do social circle game. Many clubs here have mixed sets, a lot of high school trust fund babies do go to these places (I went to one of those schools – kids have IDs by age 16). Most of these girls are spoiled princesses who turn into raging sluts when away from home – you can find most of them in Montreal and Toronto.

There isn't as much of an SNL scene here unless you are shoring, however, after a date or two you can expect some action. Western women have over-inflated attitudes due to the attention they get - guys here shower them with gifts. With the exception of western women, who by the way are easy targets if you bear any semblance to the personas on this forum, persistence is the name of the game here – women barely flake and expect you to be the man – don’t overdo it though, there will always be guys who have more status, money, looks, power and toys than you – but most lack game. Also, most broads love anal because they want to preserve their virginity for marriage.

Many cars may have BBM pins on the back; girls check you out and add you on BBM. You arrange it from there. People use Bluetooth too for gaming in close proximity. The hypocrisy and superficiality is unbelievable – it’s all about image but what happens behind closed doors is another story. Another method involving cars has 2 guys in one car, 2 girls in the other. They park in a remote spot and trade a passenger. Drive off to a hotel and have some fun. I hear there is now a trend of meeting abroad and they take vacations to exotic places to hookup.

Many guys are also on the DL, I've heard of many orgies in the desert. In school, threats of getting beaten up or jumped were ok to deal with. But when a guy threatened to take you to the desert and gangbang you, it would be considered a very real threat. Some guys befriend others to screw their sisters. It’s strange when you think a guy has your back and his only aim is to bang your sister.

Women are covered and protected to avoid the hassle of dealing with men. I also think it's a way for them to be modest - they can wear what they want under there (It's called an abaya) and still be respected as men can't see it. Women out west flaunt it and are consequently desensitized; resorting to other behaviors to express their femininity in a twisted way. Again this is just my theory but if youth and beauty are a girls only assets, if she doesn't protect them - she's basically a gazelle surrounded by hyenas; many of whom are ready to go for the kill.

Clubs here are usually in hotels, in Dubai there are niche areas you can go to find the girls. Beirut and Cairo are also good cities in the Arab world. Shoring is pretty common too and there are clubs known for that – it was at a high point while forces were in Afghanistan and Iraq but it’s slowly being replaced by escorts and massage houses.

Divorce laws are favorable to men here. You keep the kids and the money, shaming ensures that women don't stray. Women are still respected though in more backwards areas it is really sad what happens to them – it’s worse still that western women claim the attention that these women really do deserve.

I’m going on a tangent here, the 4 wives thing; it was originally meant to protect women from peddling themselves in times of war centuries ago. From this forums standpoint, we talk about having a harem, you can legally have one here as you can in Utah but the system favors you in this part of the world – not sure of the technicalities. It just requires you to be a good man with the ability to support each woman and child equally - women here have a developing country mentality with their eyes on the prize. I had a few friends with several moms in the family, but it still worked out for them - of course you need to have a certain monetary level to sustain that lifestyle (All of them were $50M+ range)

I know that this region hasn’t been portray in the best of light in the past few years, but if you take the time to visit and mingle with the people (Most westerner’s don’t by the way, it’s almost like they are visiting an African village and observing the poor barbarians while doing touristy things). It’s a culture that’s misunderstood – you all seem intelligent enough to know that sometimes perception is not reality.

For people looking to find work, look at Doha, Dubai and Abu Dhabi for options. Many recruiting agencies bring people in from Europe and the US. As for Canada, many people emigrated from here to get the passport and move back to get a higher pay-grade, they wizened up to that. Business opportunities are here, however you need to mingle with the expats, lots of companies manufacture and use it as a hub for trading goods - if you are in the professional services industry; it's a good place to look for work as the economies are beginning to diversify.

This is a long post, but I wanted to give in as much as I've gotten from this forum. I've been planning to join this forum for over a year, keep missing the date. Scotian, I’m taking a leap of faith and going to Edmonton next month to find work. SO to all the OG’s who’ve inspired me and kept me from falling into what could have been a serious life crises. Roosh, thanks for making this forum happen.

[tomtud]

Brownman, exceptions do exist for everything. However here in th middle east good luck in becoming friends with the locals and even dating the women. Especially here in the Gulf.

[Deif]

As an American of Lebanese descent, who has traveled the region and is intimate with its language and culture, I ask the question: why would anybody ever want to go to the Mideast for picking up girls?

You have states that are either embroiled in civil war/civil strife (Syria, Yemen, Bahrain), on the verge of civil war (Lebanon, Libya), or are cultural/political clusterfucks (Egypt, Iraq).

The other states are puritanically and fanatically Islamic (the entire Arab Gulf region) and you'll have traveled to the region to essentially fuck expats. Even in the non-Gulf states, the people are still extremely religious and tightly knit with their family.

The only place I would consider visiting is Lebanon, but even that's slowly slipping away as the political situation there is spiraling out of control. I've omitted Israel because I won't travel there for personal reasons, but you are all, obviously, free to try that option.

[brownman]

tomtud and deif - I agree that it's tough. I'm not advising anyone to come here to pickup - There are many other regions in the world to enjoy that. However, if you do end up here, just my 2 cents for how things work, I was born and raised in the Gulf - my family integrated well into society here and I got to see many things most people don't when they come here.

I personally wanted to get out since age I was 17 - I had 5 notches by then from girlfriends - 3 SE Asians and 2 E Europeans. Native girls are easier when young - I had many chances in HS, it's risking life and limb though and better to find them abroad in the UK.

If you ever do end up here, get in and make some dough while gaining experience, then get out. The ROI here is too low to live the lifestyle we aspire to have - There is hope though, you can find pussy in select spots to survive - but it's no reason to come here as a bachelor.

[Arabian Lover]

i recently started a thread about banging virgins. i realize it will be hard but there must be a way.how did anyone not mention screwing married women in the Arab nations. what do people think about fucking married arab women. i read a forum once where it was claimed that women from arab states are horny like hell. many of the women like to engage in risky sex with their drivers and servents or foreign lovers (italians, french and spanish men). some even claim that there are many lesbians there as well as gay man. so if your feeling brave then it possible to jump on these women. but you'd have to be very very careful.

[Branimir]

(12-28-2012 05:16 AM)Arabian Lover Wrote:  

i recently started a thread about banging virgins. i realize it will be hard but there must be a way.how did anyone not mention screwing married women in the Arab nations. what do people think about fucking married arab women. i read a forum once where it was claimed that women from arab states are horny like hell. many of the women like to engage in risky sex with their drivers and servents or foreign lovers (italians, french and spanish men). some even claim that there are many lesbians there as well as gay man. so if your feeling brave then it possible to jump on these women. but you'd have to be very very careful.

The idea sounds tempting, liberating and satisfiyng the sexual needs of married arab women... but it also sounds like being on the edge of getting into some serious deep shit or even risking your life.
You know what kind of law these countries have, and now include to that basically the worst thing you can do to a overprotective strong religious male arab sheik who is on the top of the hierarchy in this society : fucking his wife.

BTW I honestly think such reports of horny as fuck married arab women just waiting on that foreign men to pump her are waaaay overblown.
Don't forget also that they're all covered , that means you don't even KNOW what is beneath it. .. but when i think of it, this also has something exciting, don't you agree?

[Parlay44]

Man I hear stories. It's a very conservative place. People get thrown in jail for kissing in public or smoking a little weed.
Last thing I want to do bang some married muslim women who's husband or family will cut my head off. There's too
much anti-american sentiment for me to even consider it.

[A CLOCKWORK TRADER]

It's brutal out there. This is an extreme example but it gives you some idea of the culture:

I would love to hear about Israel though. I've been out with a few Israeli girls here in NYC and have always wanted to go.

[Menace]

Why would you go the ME to get girls? It's like trying to look for water in the desert...possible but insanely difficult. Unless you're on some kind of flag mission there are so many easier places to get girls.. Hell if you want Arab girls, go to Michigan. If you want Persians, head to LA. The ME government is one hell of a cockblock.

[A CLOCKWORK TRADER]

(12-28-2012 05:29 PM)Menace Wrote:  

Why would you go the ME to get girls? It's like trying to look for water in the desert...possible but insanely difficult. Unless you're on some kind of flag mission there are so many easier places to get girls.. Hell if you want Arab girls, go to Michigan. If you want Persians, head to LA. The ME government is one hell of a cockblock.

Absolutely! Persian girls in LA, Israeli girls in NYC, Arab girls in Paris, etc. One of the hottest girls I have ever been with was a French Moroccan chick from Paris.

[Technics]

What do you mean when you say "The ME government"? Surely you're not talking about all 20+ countries all at once?

The Lebanese and Israeli govt don't give a damn what anyone is doing with girls, any more so than the U.S.

There are certainly some generalities that can be made about the middle-east, but this certainly appears to be painting with much too broad of a brush.

(12-28-2012 05:29 PM)Menace Wrote:  

Why would you go the ME to get girls? It's like trying to look for water in the desert...possible but insanely difficult. Unless you're on some kind of flag mission there are so many easier places to get girls.. Hell if you want Arab girls, go to Michigan. If you want Persians, head to LA. The ME government is one hell of a cockblock.

[Technics]

Some distinctions need to be made among countries in the M-E regarding the governments' attitudes towards pre-marital sex.

One one level we have Israel, Lebanon, and possibly even Turkey. These are countries where the govt largely does not give a damn what you are doing as far as pre-marital sex.

Then we have a middle tier where the official govt line is that there should be no pre-marital sex, but fortunately the enforcement is quite lax or alternatively the punishment for being caught is not very severe OR if there are guidelines that allow for pre-marital sex but restrict it in some way. This tier includes Iran, UAE, Syria (Syria may even possibly belong on the tier above).

Then we have the last tier where the govt line is that there should be no pre-marital sex and enforcement and punishments are quite severe. This includes: Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia.

I cannot yet speak with confidence about the remaining ME countries. I'm sure some of our other players on the forum with good knowledge could chime in.

Also, I am not speaking as to how difficult it is to get with a girl in these countries. This is strictly regarding the laws & govt policy towards pre-marital sex.

[naswanji]

When it comes to morality type laws, most countries in the Middle East apply a double standard depending on whether you're a foreigner or a local. Governments in these countries usually don't care what debauchery foreigners get up to among themselves, but they do have a paternalistic attitude toward their own citizens, and put in place laws that try to hinder them from breaking Islamic rules with regards to alcohol, premarital sex, etc.

These laws can vary from quite strict to somewhat lax. For example:

In Saudi Arabia and Iran, it is illegal for unrelated males and females to associate with one another, and there is gender segregation at all levels of society. In Egypt, on the other hand, you see young men and women out on dates all the time, holding hands, going to poorly lit public gardens for who knows what. How does the government cockblock them there? It makes it illegal for hotels to give rooms to unmarried couples or for landlords to rent out to unmarried couples (although this rule only applies to those with Egyptian citizenship; it doesn't apply to foreigners). There is also the possibility that a woman could be prosecuted for prostitution if she goes up to a man's apartment alone, but this is more of a vague threat than a frequent occurrence.

As I said, however, they usually leave foreigners out of this whole racket. Partially because they don't want to drive away tourism, partially out of a recognition of cultural difference, and partially because foreigners are perceived to have wealth and status.

As a result of this immunity, this means that a foreigner in these countries is often in a better position to score with local women than are the local guys even. As is often the case, this comes down to logistics.

Foreign men have their own apartments, which they can bring girls up to, local law enforcement is not going to bother them, they aren't plugged into the social circles there so they can't spread damaging rumors about the girl's reputation, etc. They're anonymous and safe.

Of course, this varies from country to country, with the lax to sort-of lax countries being the best for foreigners to hook up. Based on my own experience and anecdotal evidence, I would rank the region as follows:

Lax: Turkey, Lebanon
Somewhat lax: Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Tunisia, Morocco
Somewhat strict: UAE, Qatar, Bahrain
Strict: Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan

I rank the Gulf countries as somewhat strict mostly because there is too much of a stigma in these countries against mingling between foreigners and local women. The mentality in the Gulf is an amalgam of tribalism and nouveau riche snobbery, which leaves the women fairly closed off toward dating Westerners -- unlike in other ME countries, where there is often a significant gringo effect.

[Technics]

Yes, quite true about the differing standards for foreigners acting with other foreigners in some of these countries.

Also, I notice the countries that are common in our lists are pretty much ranked the same, with the exception of Iran.

Why do you place Iran with Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan?

(12-28-2012 10:45 PM)naswanji Wrote:  

When it comes to morality type laws, most countries in the Middle East apply a double standard depending on whether you're a foreigner or a local. Governments in these countries usually don't care what debauchery foreigners get up to among themselves, but they do have a paternalistic attitude toward their own citizens, and put in place laws that try to hinder them from breaking Islamic rules with regards to alcohol, premarital sex, etc.

These laws can vary from quite strict to somewhat lax. For example:

In Saudi Arabia and Iran, it is illegal for unrelated males and females to associate with one another, and there is gender segregation at all levels of society. In Egypt, on the other hand, you see young men and women out on dates all the time, holding hands, going to poorly lit public gardens for who knows what. How does the government cockblock them there? It makes it illegal for hotels to give rooms to unmarried couples or for landlords to rent out to unmarried couples (although this rule only applies to those with Egyptian citizenship; it doesn't apply to foreigners). There is also the possibility that a woman could be prosecuted for prostitution if she goes up to a man's apartment alone, but this is more of a vague threat than a frequent occurrence.

As I said, however, they usually leave foreigners out of this whole racket. Partially because they don't want to drive away tourism, partially out of a recognition of cultural difference, and partially because foreigners are perceived to have wealth and status.

As a result of this immunity, this means that a foreigner in these countries is often in a better position to score with local women than are the local guys even. As is often the case, this comes down to logistics.

Foreign men have their own apartments, which they can bring girls up to, local law enforcement is not going to bother them, they aren't plugged into the social circles there so they can't spread damaging rumors about the girl's reputation, etc. They're anonymous and safe.

Of course, this varies from country to country, with the lax to sort-of lax countries being the best for foreigners to hook up. Based on my own experience and anecdotal evidence, I would rank the region as follows:

Lax: Turkey, Lebanon
Somewhat lax: Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Tunisia, Morocco
Somewhat strict: UAE, Qatar, Bahrain
Strict: Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan

I rank the Gulf countries as somewhat strict mostly because there is too much of a stigma in these countries against mingling between foreigners and local women. The mentality in the Gulf is an amalgam of tribalism and nouveau riche snobbery, which leaves the women fairly closed off toward dating Westerners -- unlike in other ME countries, where there is often a significant gringo effect.