[durangotang]

I was just musing about the Pareto Principle, also known as the 80/20 rule. I think it applies in game as well.

Find the 20 percent.

[Cincinnatus]

Long before I started learning game on an intentional, intellectual level as we all do here, my father told me that approaching is the critical point of all game.

It's approaching that makes all the difference. Gotta meet the bitches that are down to fuck. If you don't approach enough girls, you won't find the ones that want to fuck you. If you don't approach at all, well...

If it's 20% that are down to lay me, well, I gotta sort through all the bitches that don't. And I will.

[ElJefe]

Doubt it.

If you use STD rates as a guide, a fraction of men are banging a large portion of women (in the US). In Scandinavia, it's the opposite. A small fraction of girls are banging several guys.

[CJ]

This is interesting... I doubt it is 20/80... I would wager a small portion of the male population is banging the majority of the female population (especially in America); however, the percent of girls that are getting banged by those guys is probably something closer to 70%. Hell even fat girls are getting it from guys with no standards. We could debate and theorize about this all day though, what we need are actual statistics.

[Hades]

(02-20-2012 11:41 PM)MSW2007 Wrote:  

Long before I started learning game on an intentional, intellectual level as we all do here, my father told me that approaching is the critical point of all game.

It's approaching that makes all the difference. Gotta meet the bitches that are down to fuck. If you don't approach enough girls, you won't find the ones that want to fuck you. If you don't approach at all, well...

If it's 20% that are down to lay me, well, I gotta sort through all the bitches that don't. And I will.

Your dad's a smart man. Sure wish I had that kind of advice growing up. Otherwise I probably would not have gotten such bad oneitis in school.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

In the strictly game sense from your point of view, maybe. Otherwise, hell no! While there might be a few ultra-sluts or nymphos on the female side, their sexuality and number of partners is surprisingly uniform. The point is that most of them sleep around quite a lot more than the average man thinks.

[anewtypedude]

Sorry to bust your bubble, but from our university's data, it's more like 10% of men are sleeping with 20-30% of women. 50% of women are stuck in purely monogamous relationships (answered sleeping with only 1 partner in the previous year in an anonymous survey). The rest are fatties that no man would touch.

[germanico]

(02-21-2012 06:22 AM)anewtypedude Wrote:  

The rest are fatties that no man would touch.

If you think that "no man" would touch the fatties, you need to go out there and stay until last call, when you will see that even the most disgusting munters will have men fighting over them.

[anewtypedude]

Unfortunately, these are fatties who don't go out and just sit on their couches all day eating cheetos and watch/read Twilight

[Yams]

(02-21-2012 06:22 AM)anewtypedude Wrote:  

Sorry to bust your bubble, but from our university's data, it's more like 10% of men are sleeping with 20-30% of women. 50% of women are stuck in purely monogamous relationships (answered sleeping with only 1 partner in the previous year in an anonymous survey). The rest are fatties that no man would touch.

I would be interested in seeing the data on this just to know how it breaks down demographically.

[Samseau]

(02-21-2012 06:22 AM)anewtypedude Wrote:  

Sorry to bust your bubble, but from our university's data, it's more like 10% of men are sleeping with 20-30% of women. 50% of women are stuck in purely monogamous relationships (answered sleeping with only 1 partner in the previous year in an anonymous survey). The rest are fatties that no man would touch.

Women lie. These survey's mean shit.


I agree with the OP. 20% of the women probably do have the most sex, but they're having it with Alphas.

Then there's the other 80%, of which most date monogamously but still have flings with alphas from time to time.

Case in point:

I just banged a 27 yr old Greek woman this weekend (she had never been in America either). She told me she had been in a relationship for 6 years, and was cheating on her boyfriend with me. She confessed to me that I was her first cheat outside of this relationship. I banged her the same day I met her, raw dog.

This girl has slept with less than ten men for her entire life, and I was one of them.

Another girl I'm currently banging tells me she didn't lose her virginity until 23, because she used to be borderline lesbian, and had only slept with 4 other guys before me.

I've had other experiences like these too. Not all women I bang are promiscuous. Some girls love cock-hopping, but most don't.



So yes, I would agree that 20% of the women give out 80% of the sex, and it's true for men too, with 20% of the men giving out 80% of the sex.


But the men giving out 80% of the sex have access to all the "good girls" - normal betas have to date for a month before getting any, while the sluts who fuck tons of guys fuck lots of alphas and a few betas in-between.

I surmise that men learning game will first cut their teeth on these uber-sluts until their game improves enough to snag the less promiscuous women.


Of course, by the time you're game is good enough that you regularly bang "good girls", you'll realize how little a woman's notch count matters when it comes to seducing them, as all women are the same, and you'll no longer care about this stuff.

[Rurik]

(02-21-2012 09:03 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

(02-21-2012 06:22 AM)anewtypedude Wrote:  

Sorry to bust your bubble, but from our university's data, it's more like 10% of men are sleeping with 20-30% of women. 50% of women are stuck in purely monogamous relationships (answered sleeping with only 1 partner in the previous year in an anonymous survey). The rest are fatties that no man would touch.

Women lie. These survey's mean shit.


I agree with the OP. 20% of the women probably do have the most sex, but they're having it with Alphas.

Then there's the other 80%, of which most date monogamously but still have flings with alphas from time to time.

Case in point:

I just banged a 27 yr old Greek woman this weekend (she had never been in America either). She told me she had been in a relationship for 6 years, and was cheating on her boyfriend with me. She confessed to me that I was her first cheat outside of this relationship. I banged her the same day I met her, raw dog.

This girl has slept with less than ten men for her entire life, and I was one of them.

Another girl I'm currently banging tells me she didn't lose her virginity until 23, because she used to be borderline lesbian, and had only slept with 4 other guys before me.

I've had other experiences like these too. Not all women I bang are promiscuous. Some girls love cock-hopping, but most don't.



So yes, I would agree that 20% of the women give out 80% of the sex, and it's true for men too, with 20% of the men giving out 80% of the sex.


But the men giving out 80% of the sex have access to all the "good girls" - normal betas have to date for a month before getting any, while the sluts who fuck tons of guys fuck lots of alphas and a few betas in-between.

I surmise that men learning game will first cut their teeth on these uber-sluts until their game improves enough to snag the less promiscuous women.


Of course, by the time you're game is good enough that you regularly bang "good girls", you'll realize how little a woman's notch count matters when it comes to seducing them, as all women are the same, and you'll no longer care about this stuff.

Good post. Do you think the greek girl was being honest saying you were the first cheat?

[Samseau]

(02-21-2012 09:43 AM)Rurik Wrote:  

(02-21-2012 09:03 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

(02-21-2012 06:22 AM)anewtypedude Wrote:  

Sorry to bust your bubble, but from our university's data, it's more like 10% of men are sleeping with 20-30% of women. 50% of women are stuck in purely monogamous relationships (answered sleeping with only 1 partner in the previous year in an anonymous survey). The rest are fatties that no man would touch.

Women lie. These survey's mean shit.


I agree with the OP. 20% of the women probably do have the most sex, but they're having it with Alphas.

Then there's the other 80%, of which most date monogamously but still have flings with alphas from time to time.

Case in point:

I just banged a 27 yr old Greek woman this weekend (she had never been in America either). She told me she had been in a relationship for 6 years, and was cheating on her boyfriend with me. She confessed to me that I was her first cheat outside of this relationship. I banged her the same day I met her, raw dog.

This girl has slept with less than ten men for her entire life, and I was one of them.

Another girl I'm currently banging tells me she didn't lose her virginity until 23, because she used to be borderline lesbian, and had only slept with 4 other guys before me.

I've had other experiences like these too. Not all women I bang are promiscuous. Some girls love cock-hopping, but most don't.



So yes, I would agree that 20% of the women give out 80% of the sex, and it's true for men too, with 20% of the men giving out 80% of the sex.


But the men giving out 80% of the sex have access to all the "good girls" - normal betas have to date for a month before getting any, while the sluts who fuck tons of guys fuck lots of alphas and a few betas in-between.

I surmise that men learning game will first cut their teeth on these uber-sluts until their game improves enough to snag the less promiscuous women.


Of course, by the time you're game is good enough that you regularly bang "good girls", you'll realize how little a woman's notch count matters when it comes to seducing them, as all women are the same, and you'll no longer care about this stuff.

Good post. Do you think the greek girl was being honest saying you were the first cheat?

I have no idea. I don't believe in fully trusting women, so she's probably lying. She sure has no problem hiding our fling from my roommate.

However, if it makes any difference, she volunteered the information herself. I never asked her about her past relationship history, I just asked her, "Do you have a boyfriend in Greece?" and she ended up giving me all sorts of other details.


Here's another experience to support my theory:

I dated an 18 year old chick who grew up on a farm (in Pennsylvania?). She went to an all-girl school before moving to Boston for college (thank god for Boston's colleges). She had no more than 3 lays, of which I learned from her complaining about her lack of dating options in high school. Chalk up another "good girl" for "piece-of-shit alpha boy" Samseau.

Alpha's get the relatively few flings good girls have, and they get the slutty pussy as well. Betas get the scraps and are lucky to bang a skank.


Another observation:

Ever notice how there are alpha's on this forum who have claimed to banged dozens of girls and yet have no STD's? Roosh has never had any serious STD, and claims not to have herpes. This is because alphas fuck the less slutty girls, girls who don't have any STD's.

Then notice how you hear stories about a guy who bangs one girl and ends up with an STD? That guy was a beta who was scraping the bottom of the barrel for pussy, and ended up with a cock-loving nympho who gave him an STD.

[LowerCaseG]

I was having a month long tryst with a young african lady. I was driving her home one day and in the process of making polite conversation I asked her if she was seeing anybody etc... She starts to tell me about how she has been dating this one guy she "really likes." (Background, 2nd date bang for me, and subsequent bang on all 5 or 6 next meetings) She goes on to say how they have been on 10 or 12 dates and have not slept together yet. I said, "don't you think its a little ironic that you give it up so easily for me who you dont like as much as this other guy who is "special." Her reply:

"Well, most girls want to have sex with somebody on the side while they are looking for Mr. Right."

This statement has stuck with me ever since. This young lady was able to freely admit this due to not being ruined by american culture. But I have to believe this is a very common mentality among the female dating population.

What I take out of this is that if you can eliminate the possibility of a LTR and essentially disarm the woman, she has lost her leverage, and the beta market economy of sex for gifts/higher value lifestlye no longer applies.

[RaulValdez739]

(02-21-2012 11:47 AM)LowerCaseG Wrote:  

I was having a month long tryst with a young african lady. I was driving her home one day and in the process of making polite conversation I asked her if she was seeing anybody etc... She starts to tell me about how she has been dating this one guy she "really likes." (Background, 2nd date bang for me, and subsequent bang on all 5 or 6 next meetings) She goes on to say how they have been on 10 or 12 dates and have not slept together yet. I said, "don't you think its a little ironic that you give it up so easily for me who you dont like as much as this other guy who is "special." Her reply:

"Well, most girls want to have sex with somebody on the side while they are looking for Mr. Right."

This statement has stuck with me ever since. This young lady was able to freely admit this due to not being ruined by american culture. But I have to believe this is a very common mentality among the female dating population.

What I take out of this is that if you can eliminate the possibility of a LTR and essentially disarm the woman, she has lost her leverage, and the beta market economy of sex for gifts/higher value lifestlye no longer applies.

We've always known this but to have a chick actually blurt that out. Wow!

[germanico]

(02-21-2012 11:47 AM)LowerCaseG Wrote:  

"Well, most girls want to have sex with somebody on the side while they are looking for Mr. Right."

When talking about this subject with my female friends, we refer to this as "maintenance". As in "Who is giving you maintenance?" or "so, have you been getting any maintenance lately?"

[LowerCaseG]

I want to be a maintenance man when I grow up.

[Basil Ransom]

I did an analysis of some numbers from a big respected survey of college students, and the top 2.6% got ~29% of the lays. The top ~5% got 35% of the lays. It's not quite 80/20 - a little more like 80/30 - 30% of the guys get 80% of the lays.

It sounds extreme, but it's not really. Imagine this distribution:

35% of men: 0 lays
35% of men: 1 lay
10% of men: 2 lays
10% of men: 3 lays
10% of men: 4 lays

40/ (40+30+20+35) = 32%. That is, 10% of men get 32% of the lays, or 40 out of the total 125 lays. And this distribution is a lot more egalitarian than what you'd see in reality. Keep in mind though, these are 'lays' and not women. It's kinda hard to talk in terms of X% guys getting Y% women when the women keep switching guys.

In my experience, like Samseau said, when a relatively non-promiscuous girl cheats, it is overwhelmingly with a high status guy, whether it's game, looks, fame, whatever. Hell, alphas have a near complete lock on all quick sexual encounters. In the numbers I quoted, if you don't count the lays of guys who only banged one girl a year, the share of the top 2.6% goes from 29% of the lays to 37% of the lays. The top 18% get about 85% of the lays.

Here was my analysis:

"Here is some info from a study that asked students about the number of partners within the past 12 months with whom they had anal and oral as well as plain old vaginal intercourse.

It has the raw number and percent of men and women answering 0-8, and then 9+. Using Excel, I found the average number of partners for the 9+ group, to make the overall sample mean what it is, 1.72 mean sexual partners per year among the men. Given that, the average for the 9+ group must be about 19.

Then I multiply each group’s number of partners by its frequency (absolute, not percentage) in the population, and sum them all together, to find the total number of hookups that occurred in the sample. (Eg, 3839*1 + 995*2 …) Using the 19 figure from earlier, there were 17,338 hookups reported by the men.

The results: The top 2.6% of men are responsible for 29% of the hookups. The top 5.4% are responsible for 40% of the hookups. The top 28% of the men are responsible for 78% of the hookups. These statistics are for Fall 2010.

If we look at statistics for the Spring of 2000, we see a slight increase in hypergamy over 2000-2010. In 2000, the top captured noticeably fewer of the hookups. Here, the top 2.68% captured the top 25% of hookups vs 29% in 2010, and the top 5.4% captured the top 36%. The top 28.5% captured 75% of the hookups in 2000, vs 78% in 2010."

And here are the numbers:


lays per year# of guys% of guys#of guys*lays/yr % of total lays
0346034.33%00.00%
1383938.09%383922.15%
29959.87%199011.48%
36196.14%185710.71%
43653.62%14608.42%
52592.57%12957.47%
61461.45%8765.05%
7770.76%5393.11%
8570.57%4562.63%
19.12632.61%5023.328.98%
Total men 10080
Total lays 17335.3

Mean lays per man1.719771825

[anewtypedude]

(02-21-2012 09:03 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

(02-21-2012 06:22 AM)anewtypedude Wrote:  

Sorry to bust your bubble, but from our university's data, it's more like 10% of men are sleeping with 20-30% of women. 50% of women are stuck in purely monogamous relationships (answered sleeping with only 1 partner in the previous year in an anonymous survey). The rest are fatties that no man would touch.

Women lie. These survey's mean shit.


I agree with the OP. 20% of the women probably do have the most sex, but they're having it with Alphas.

Then there's the other 80%, of which most date monogamously but still have flings with alphas from time to time.

Case in point:

I just banged a 27 yr old Greek woman this weekend (she had never been in America either). She told me she had been in a relationship for 6 years, and was cheating on her boyfriend with me. She confessed to me that I was her first cheat outside of this relationship. I banged her the same day I met her, raw dog.

This girl has slept with less than ten men for her entire life, and I was one of them.

Another girl I'm currently banging tells me she didn't lose her virginity until 23, because she used to be borderline lesbian, and had only slept with 4 other guys before me.

I've had other experiences like these too. Not all women I bang are promiscuous. Some girls love cock-hopping, but most don't.



So yes, I would agree that 20% of the women give out 80% of the sex, and it's true for men too, with 20% of the men giving out 80% of the sex.


But the men giving out 80% of the sex have access to all the "good girls" - normal betas have to date for a month before getting any, while the sluts who fuck tons of guys fuck lots of alphas and a few betas in-between.

I surmise that men learning game will first cut their teeth on these uber-sluts until their game improves enough to snag the less promiscuous women.


Of course, by the time you're game is good enough that you regularly bang "good girls", you'll realize how little a woman's notch count matters when it comes to seducing them, as all women are the same, and you'll no longer care about this stuff.

Lying on an ANONYMOUS survey, Really? Personal experience doesn't meant much in light of empirical evidence. For one, when you take the entire population into account, the majority of girls don't even frequent the venues (bars, nightclubs, etc) that expose them to players who would try to pick them up, and when they do, it's almost always with a large group of friends or with the bf. The girls that you see out having fun on the weekends ARE NOT the typically girls. The overestimation comes from the fact that when you go out, these are the girls that you see. Our university may not get featured on Girls Gone Wild anytime soon, but I can assume that our student population is still more promiscuous than the general population because they are in an university environment afterall (large school in the US). Secondly, contrary to popular belief (on this forum), the majority of girls are not open to the idea of cheating on their bf - you know, those same girls who put a limit on your approach to bang rate. Remeber all those times you got blown out? Despite far outnumbers the times you got the bang, they are less memorable still.
Of course these are college students. If we conduct a survey on a bunch of old ladies, most of them probably have a fling at one time in their lives.

As for Basil, the point is that the majority of girls aren't DTF. It's best to find those that will.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

Quote:

the majority of girls don't even frequent the venues (bars, nightclubs, etc) that expose them to players who would try to pick them up

I take issue with this. Out of hundreds of girls that I know, there are maybe 3 or 4 who don't frequent such places, and even those are coaxed into going occasionally. Even the most intellectual girls around (sadly) always view wild clubbing and spending nights in smoky, noisy bars with floor sticky from alcohol as the epitome of fun.

And even that doesn't take into account that a fact that a girl doesn't go clubbing doesn't necessarily make her any less of a slut of susceptible to game. One of the biggest sluts I've known made it a big point of pride that she didn't enjoy clubs and was more of an outdoorsy type. I don't think that a girl who doesn't want to cheat on her bf is necessarily any more pure for doing so, because I'd rather judge her on how often she changes "long-term" bfs (something that also happens more often than in the popular perception). Girls who have had very low numbers and spent most of their time in a stable relationship with one guy have, in all of my life, been extremely rare.

Finally there is this study, detailing how female responses about sexual habits vary drastically (turns out that telling them they're on a polygraph is the only way to coax truthful responses instead of socially acceptable ones):
http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/sexsurv.htm

[anewtypedude]

Again, that has more to do with the girls you spent time with. It is like how college students overestimate the prevalence of binge drinking on campus, because that's what gets seen, when the actual rate of binge drinking is quite low (less than 20%). A good number of girls prefer to spend weekend nights with their bf than go out and get drunk. Again, the thread isn't about whether those girls are DTF, because I am sure with enough game most girls are bangable, but it's about the actual statistics of girls getting banged by alpha. If you are to ask any PUA, they will likely overestimate due to the sample of girls that they are typically exposed to. Day game statistics will give you a far more representative sample and realistic estimate than night game statistics. Ever wonder why it is easier to get the bang at night for reasons other than alcohol? A biased sample, that is why.

[Samseau]

(02-21-2012 04:57 PM)anewtypedude Wrote:  

(02-21-2012 09:03 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

(02-21-2012 06:22 AM)anewtypedude Wrote:  

Sorry to bust your bubble, but from our university's data, it's more like 10% of men are sleeping with 20-30% of women. 50% of women are stuck in purely monogamous relationships (answered sleeping with only 1 partner in the previous year in an anonymous survey). The rest are fatties that no man would touch.

Women lie. These survey's mean shit.

Lying on an ANONYMOUS survey, Really?

You must be new to women.

"For example, women who thought their answers might be read reported an average of 2.6 sexual partners. But those who thought they were monitored by a lie detector reported an average of 4.4 sexual partners. Women who were not attached to the lie detector, but who had privacy during testing, gave answers in the middle – an average of 3.4 sexual partners."

http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/sexsurv.htm

Quote:

Personal experience doesn't meant much in light of empirical evidence. For one, when you take the entire population into account, the majority of girls don't even frequent the venues (bars, nightclubs, etc) that expose them to players who would try to pick them up, and when they do, it's almost always with a large group of friends or with the bf.

I like how you contradict yourself. You say empirical evidence is all that counts then you list your personal experience, which also happens to be completely wrong.

I have seen every type of girl go to my favorite dance clubs around town. Every type of girl goes out. Every single one.

Quote:

The girls that you see out having fun on the weekends ARE NOT the typically girls. The overestimation comes from the fact that when you go out, these are the girls that you see. Our university may not get featured on Girls Gone Wild anytime soon, but I can assume that our student population is still more promiscuous than the general population because they are in an university environment afterall (large school in the US).

Complete bullshit, totally wrong. The girls you see going out on weekends - have you ever tried talking to them? Finding out who they are, where they are from?

No, you haven't, because you've probably never approached more than 100 women.

If you had, you might know a thing or two.

Moreover, university girls are LESS slutty than the population at large because university girls have reputations to protect on campus, whereas in an anonymous city they can slut it up with zero repercussions.

Quote:

As for Basil, the point is that the majority of girls aren't DTF for beta males.

Fixed

[Deluge]

Great stuff basil, +1. This is why I fucking love this forum.

[kimleebj]

Great stuff. Susan Walsh believes there is assorted selection, where monogamous couples stick with each other, while promiscuous Players (men and women) hookup among themselves. Alternatively, Basil says that Players hookup with everybody. Under Basil's theory, the average partner of a Player might actually have fewer partners than the average partner of a monogamous person.

Here's an example. Walsh says that sexual partners are like running partners. Slow runners get slow partners, and fast runners get fast partners. But Basil Ransom says it is more like white water rafting or mountain climbing. Beginners don't dare do these activities without an experienced partner. So a few professional guides give tours all day to novices, while novices only go with professional guides.

This is important for strategy. If you believe Walsh then you search for sluts. But if you believe Basil Ransom, then you work on game. There may be a little truth in both, but I'm with Basil.

OKCupid showed that women are all focused on the most attractive men.
http://blog.okcupid.com/index.html/your-l...ne-dating/

[Basil Ransom]

(02-23-2012 12:41 PM)kimleebj Wrote:  

Great stuff. Susan Walsh believes there is assorted selection, where monogamous couples stick with each other, while promiscuous Players (men and women) hookup among themselves. Alternatively, Basil says that Players hookup with everybody. Under Basil's theory, the average partner of a Player might actually have fewer partners than the average partner of a monogamous person.

Here's an example. Walsh says that sexual partners are like running partners. Slow runners get slow partners, and fast runners get fast partners. But Basil Ransom says it is more like white water rafting or mountain climbing. Beginners don't dare do these activities without an experienced partner. So a few professional guides give tours all day to novices, while novices only go with professional guides.

This is important for strategy. If you believe Walsh then you search for sluts. But if you believe Basil Ransom, then you work on game. There may be a little truth in both, but I'm with Basil.

OKCupid showed that women are all focused on the most attractive men.
http://blog.okcupid.com/index.html/your-l...ne-dating/

You're overstating my case a bit. I've seen elsewhere statistics that suggest a correlation between notch counts among partners. That guys who have banged more women end up wifing girls with higher counts than guys with less experience. I don't really believe that betas necessarily get the used up sluts while alphas get the virgins. If you look at how people actually find mates, it's often through friends and social circles, where people's counts can be similar.

But Walsh believes that players are only banging whores. That 'good girls' never touch players. Which isn't the case. Even the 'good' girls have the guys they dated seriously, and then the 'mistakes.' We here strive to BE that 'mistake.' These 'mistakes' are nearly always players. I've actually used it as a line - 'You know how every girl has the guys she dated, and then the 'mistake?' I've been that mistake,' and girls will laugh, because they know exactly what I mean.

Because of increasing hypergamy, lots of girls are holding out from dating more and more. She may refrain from hookups most of the time, but when she does hook-up, you can bet it will be with a player. Hell, increasingly girls aren't even seeing these hookups as 'mistakes' any more, but as an acceptable response to the 'fact' that 'there are no good men' (i.e. she's too fat, ugly, bitchy or picky to snag the man she would want). Or that they just don't 'count.'

Walsh wants to paint this phony story that the good girls aren't touching the manwhores, which is bullshit in my experience. Walsh's thinking is a joke. My opinion of her is here. Seems like a lot of guys go easy on her subconsciously because she's a woman, and they think 'finally a woman understands us!' Dalrock is a pretty awesome blogger though. His stuff is always on point.