[Parlay44]

Stop eating soy fellas. Sure it's a good lean protein but it comes with a side of plant based estrogens.

http://www.menshealth.com/nutrition/soys...ify-bubble

James Price's breasts had been painful and swollen. It looked as if gum balls were implanted underneath each nipple. The slightest touch triggered throbs.

For Price, a retired U.S. Army intelligence officer who once flew attack helicopters in Vietnam, these changes were more than just physically uncomfortable. "Men aren't supposed to have breasts," he says today in a quiet Texas drawl. "It was like my body was feminizing."

A lean and wiry man, the breast development stood in stark contrast to the rest of his body. But it was not Price's only symptom. His beard growth had slowed, he'd lost hair from his arms, chest, and legs, and he'd stopped waking up with morning erections. "My sexual desire disappeared," he says. "My penis—I won't say it atrophied, but it was so flaccid that it looked very small in comparison with the way it used to be. Even my emotions changed."

[Cincinnatus]

On the flipside, clinical studies show no effects of soy protein or isoflavones on reproductive hormones in men.

[kosko]

Keep eating it then. Why hold faith in establishment studies whom want to see Men become nurtured. This forum has talked about Soy a lot, once you get past 25-30 grams your body begins to turn into estrogen. Soy is found in a lot of processed food as soybean products are dirt cheap and heavily subsidized. Every man would be wise to limit or avoid it. I'll have tofu now maybe once a month max, before I would eat it once or twice a week!

[Timoteo]

I was never into tofu or any other soy product, but when I read about how it acts similarly to estrogen, I made sure to never start. And I told my boys not to fuck with it either. If you want an alternative to cow's milk, drink almond milk, but leave the soy alone.

[LowerCaseG]

I believe soy sauce and miso are exempt because they are fermented.

[Excelsior]

I'm starting to see where that whole herbivore phenomenon in Japan is coming from.

[MikeCF]

Plastics are a bigger threat than soy, which isn't a defense of soy.

Soy and plastic are why men today are less than we were 50 years ago.

Google: xenoestrogens

Use glass whenever possible, and never microwave food inside plastic.

[nmmoooreland20]

Anyone know if Soy Lecithin has the same effect? My go-to protein bar has it

[Kona]

Bullshit.

As I type this I'm eating shoyu poke and drinking a beer. I eat soy something or other every day. I have no tits.

I should really be careful because the ahi in the poke has mercury: http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-9929-p...#pid151826, and the beer is gonna make me crash my truck.

I'm gonna go smoke a cigarette.

Aloha!

[violão]

Here's the rundown on soy.

Yes, it contains phytoestrogens which fuck up your hormonal balance (they're bad for women, too) and wreak havoc within the body. They are also highly indigestible, and contain massive amounts of phytic acid and lectins which tear your gut apart. Soybeans were traditionally used only as a bumper crop for a long time in Asia, and even now the Asian population uses soy as a condiment, not a food staple. You'll find tofu cubes in soup, and miso, natto, and soy sauces to spice up meals, but only modern fools like those in the states consume soymilk and fake veggie dogs and other soy crap aren't normally consumed there.

So Kona, the shoyu won't hurt you. It's fermented, and shoyu and tamari actually don't have any phytoestrogens in them anyways. The real danger is tofu dogs and other shit purchased by retarded vegans and concerned mothers who read poorly-researched shit articles in women's magazines.

And as MikeCF said, plastics do the same shit. They mimic estrogens within the body and fuck up hormonal balance. Do your research and you'll realize that hormones are probably the most important aspect of muscle development, weight loss, libido, and all the other stuff that you should definitely care about.

Note:
If you want to be an "alpha male", you'd better educate the fuck out of yourself on matters of diet and nutrition, and I don't mean the quips and factoids on men's sites and magazines. Most information out there is bullshit and many modern foods will turn you into a wembling pussy, wasting away muscle, storing fat, and destroying your testosterone. Check out the Weston A Price foundation, Mark Sisson's blog, and Tim Ferris' book. I can't post links because I'm still a newbie, but use google and you'll find them.

[kosko]

Rice milk is a good alternative too. I had to call out to the dumpy curry spot I got to near my school. Homeboy was outta rice so he goes to the back, gets a brick of cold rice and throws it in a rubbermaid into the nuker I kinda gave him this odd look and walked out. The worst.. Absolute worst is when I see kats re-heating there lunch in STYROFOAM, this stuff has to be ten times worse then regular plastic and is probably borderline toxic at high temperature exposures. Blew my mind.

[Diomedes]

(02-06-2012 10:35 PM)nmmoooreland20 Wrote:  

Anyone know if Soy Lecithin has the same effect? My go-to protein bar has it

Worry not. Have read that it doesn't. Even if that is not true it will be nowhere near enough to affect anything. Soya lecithin is a common binding agent that is added to food. You'll see it on a lot of processed food.

By the way, anyone interested in increasing sperm volume should get some. 1200mg/a day worked better for me than 100mg zinc/a day, l-arginine, pumpkin seeds or maca.

[germanico]

(02-06-2012 08:09 PM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

who once flew attack helicopters in Vietnam

It must have been those soy burgers he ate, since agent orange is harmless.

[Parlay44]

I wonder if there is a difference between soy in Asia compared to soy in the US? US has some strict food and drug laws. I know it's like that with cheese. European cheeses are "living" unpasteurized cheeses. Much more flavorful.

[raliv]

(02-06-2012 09:55 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

Plastics are a bigger threat than soy, which isn't a defense of soy.

Soy and plastic are why men today are less than we were 50 years ago.

Google: xenoestrogens

Use glass whenever possible, and never microwave food inside plastic.

Strong this. I don't eat soy but now I try to stay away from plastics.

I only found out about this recently from a documentary about xenoestrogens and the effect on declining male sexual reproductive abilities, decreasing sperm counts etc. The docu was called The Disappearing Male.

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-disappearing-male/

[Vicious]

Holy shit! I've been nuking my leftovers in tupperware for a good part of my life.

I'd eat a big red steak to compensate but it'd be full of hormones.

[babelfish669]

Yeah its no junk science about what BPA in plastic can do -- http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/34405049.html Even drinking from plastic bottles, let alone putting them in the microwave increases the amount of BPA in urine samples by 70%.

Its ironic that the result of a century of capitalism, industry, and progressive politics is women becoming more like men and men becoming more like women.

As for soy, its healthy when fermented and in small quantities. I laugh at these vegans who think they are doing something for the earth and themselves.

[Docter]

The more fermented the soy product, the more palatable it becomes.

Regardless, I'm still not eating it.

[Raoul]

J.H.-R while a doctoral student at the University of Minnesota received some minor funding from the Soy Nutrition Institute for work on this manuscript. G.V. has nothing to disclose. S.J.D. has nothing to disclose. W.R.P. has nothing to disclose. M.S.K. occasionally consults for the Solae Company. M.J.M. regularly consults for companies in the soy food industry.

(02-06-2012 09:10 PM)MSW2007 Wrote:  

On the flipside, clinical studies show no effects of soy protein or isoflavones on reproductive hormones in men.

[kosko]

(02-07-2012 12:58 PM)Raoul Wrote:  

J.H.-R while a doctoral student at the University of Minnesota received some minor funding from the Soy Nutrition Institute for work on this manuscript. G.V. has nothing to disclose. S.J.D. has nothing to disclose. W.R.P. has nothing to disclose. M.S.K. occasionally consults for the Solae Company. M.J.M. regularly consults for companies in the soy food industry.

(02-06-2012 09:10 PM)MSW2007 Wrote:  

On the flipside, clinical studies show no effects of soy protein or isoflavones on reproductive hormones in men.

LMAO Good investigating.

[nmmoooreland20]

(02-07-2012 10:51 AM)Diomedes Wrote:  

(02-06-2012 10:35 PM)nmmoooreland20 Wrote:  

Anyone know if Soy Lecithin has the same effect? My go-to protein bar has it

Worry not. Have read that it doesn't. Even if that is not true it will be nowhere near enough to affect anything. Soya lecithin is a common binding agent that is added to food. You'll see it on a lot of processed food.

By the way, anyone interested in increasing sperm volume should get some. 1200mg/a day worked better for me than 100mg zinc/a day, l-arginine, pumpkin seeds or maca.

Thanks man.

[moso]

I tried to spruce this up and make it more readable and less dry, but I don't want to spend more time on it. There is some good information below some of the dry stuff. I wish I had more patience to make it better.

Learning about soy and estrogen mimickers
It is difficult to know what are the effects of estrogen mimicking substances known as "xenoestrogens". It is not a simple subject and it does not help when different institutions or corporate entities have strong monetary interests in influencing opinion or perceived facts. Especially when they are funding some of the research on the topic. You can read articles such as "Some Food Additives Mimic Human Hormones" in the March 27th 2009 issue of Scientific American. You will probably gain additional questions without answering questions that you already had. We are probably not going to answer a question like this on the forum when we know that we cannot recommend whether someone visit Belo Horizonte, Bucharest, Ljubljana, Medellin, Mendoza, Minsk, or Wroclaw or how easy it would be to pull without asking many questions about the person and what they expect and want. We would also need to combine our personal experiences with information forum posts and determine which forum information seems to be more accurate and up to date. Do we have the same expertise amongst us to reliably answer questions about the effects of estrogen mimickers in soy and the effects on our libido or tools. So, you might consider it to be a journey and not freak out about the soy when you regularly consume an energy drink from a flexible plastic bottle that contains BPA. Maybe you might vary your diet and not eat too much soy. Maybe you might make your own energy drink or smoothy from fresh vegetables and fruit and put it in your hard nalgene bottle that does not contain BPA.

Why people consume Soy
A complimentary protein alternative
People tend to eat soy because it is considered a "high quality" protein which contains the "essential amino acids" which your liver cannot produce or cannot produce in sufficient quantities to support protein synthesis. If you want to reduce or eliminate your intake of animal protein to reduce cholesterol intake and you also want to avoid soy, you might consider "complementary proteins" such as legumes and grains. Together legumes { Ile, Lys } and grains { Met, Trp } will help provide you with the essential amino acids that will yield "high quality" proteins. Proteins are merely sequences of amino acids that our cells construct from mRNA template recipes and amino acid ingredients. There are studies that have shown that consumption of greater than 30 grams of protein per meal does not "further enhance the stimulation of muscle protein synthesis in young and elderly". Though, when an experiment supports a hypothesis, others must repeat well designed experiments with controls and be able to duplicate the results to validate the first study. Also, the population that the study results deal with must be similar to the population of people that you want to apply the hypothesis.

J Am Diet Assoc. 2009 Sep;109(9):1582-6.
A moderate serving of high-quality protein maximally stimulates skeletal muscle protein synthesis in young and elderly subjects.

One reason people minimize animal protein consumption
Many people avoid consumption of animal proteins from meat and dairy in order to reduce their cholesterol levels to avoid or reverse atherosclerosis ( ather - pertaining to arteries, o - connecting vowel, sclerosis - hardening ) Atherosclerosis is a major cause of erectile dysfunction and most likely causes myocardial infarctions ( heart attack ) and embolic strokes. ( Cholesterol plaques break away from vessel walls and disrupt circulation to tissues ) Animals including humans produce cholesterol to provide support in the bilipid layer of cell membranes, produce hormones such as estrogen, testosterone. Cholesterol is also used for other functions such as vitamin D synthesis. Most plants produce no cholesterol or produce very little cholesterol.

Reducing cholesterol levels by increasing HDL levels through exercise
Many people also consume supplements such as fish oil (activated) or flax seed oil ( non activated ) to increase HDL levels. One function of HDLs is to act as a cholesterol vacume cleaner with the liver momentarily converting them to VLDLs. Often males will have low HDL lab levels around 35 mg/dL. The best way to increase HDL levels is by exercising. Fish oil and flax seed oil are not as effective as exercise in increasing HDL levels. Also, if you consume too much of these oils you could have a Rooshian (trademark) bowel move which is not to be confused with the latest salsa dance moves. Though, do not count on your local nutrition center to tell you this. What is the bioavailability of the supplements that you fork over your hard earned cash for anyway? Are they best absorbed with food, or without food? Does the liver need to activate them or do other foods bind with these supplements?

Eating Traditions and established behaviors
Our culture and tradition has established our diet and you might have difficulty adhering to a diet as a long term lifestyle change. Your family and friends may not appreciate your desire to change our eating habits. You may be ready to lick the barbecue after obstaining from eating uncle Leroy's juicy maranated chicken. The local store may not have what you are looking for or the produce may look like crap. I would encourage you to not look at changes in your diet as yes or no decision. You might focus on increasing what you currently believe is good and minimize what you currently believe is bad. Maximize the good and minimize the bad over a longer period of time.

(02-07-2012 09:49 PM)nmmoooreland20 Wrote:  

(02-07-2012 10:51 AM)Diomedes Wrote:  

(02-06-2012 10:35 PM)nmmoooreland20 Wrote:  

Anyone know if Soy Lecithin has the same effect? My go-to protein bar has it

Worry not. Have read that it doesn't. Even if that is not true it will be nowhere near enough to affect anything. Soya lecithin is a common binding agent that is added to food. You'll see it on a lot of processed food.

By the way, anyone interested in increasing sperm volume should get some. 1200mg/a day worked better for me than 100mg zinc/a day, l-arginine, pumpkin seeds or maca.

Thanks man.

[durangotang]

Any verdict on Soy Sauce? Love the stuff.

[Raoul]

Beef steak (grain-fed) is also full of estrogen-like hormones.

(02-07-2012 11:51 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

Holy shit! I've been nuking my leftovers in tupperware for a good part of my life.

I'd eat a big red steak to compensate but it'd be full of hormones.

[Screwston]

(02-07-2012 11:51 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

Holy shit! I've been nuking my leftovers in tupperware for a good part of my life.

I'd eat a big red steak to compensate but it'd be full of hormones.

Me to

I'm going to stop after reading this thread. Hope my body doesn't fall apart and I can have kids one day.