Quote: (01-16-2012 07:09 PM)Wizard Wrote:
Quote: (01-16-2012 06:44 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:
Quote: (01-16-2012 06:20 PM)Wizard Wrote:
Declarations like these seem easier when you're not staring in the face of a women you've potentially condemned to death because you think your life holds more value, even if you could... I find it abhorrent.
Wanna bet? And, let's get this straight: I didn't condemn her to death--circumstances doomed us both. I'm more-than-willing to help a stranger in distress (in fact, I have), but I'm not willing to condemn myself to death simply because some old, discredited convention bids me to.
Quote: (01-16-2012 06:20 PM)Wizard Wrote:
Society might blissfully choose to decry masculinity, or anything associated with it but that doesn't mean that I have to join the club. Also you would be ostracized by society in general for such an action.
There's a difference between masculinity and chivalry. I'm afraid you've confused the two. There are plenty of non-masculine men willing to sacrifice their lives for another human being simply because that person happens to have a vagina. I--and I'm willing to bet the majority of the men in this forum are willing to join me in this--am not among them. Chivalry, like its requisite--but often neglected--other half (traditional lady-like behavior), is dead.
Quote: (01-16-2012 06:20 PM)Wizard Wrote:
A man has to be able to look at himself in the mirror everyday, and do so with pride. If I ever took the action you advocated, I honestly hope I have enough dignity left to put a bullet to my brain for acting like such a coward.
From your own description, it takes a lot more courage to look at another human being and choose yourself. If you're right that society will shun me, it takes balls to face them and say, "fuck you." It takes a man to do the unpopular. It takes a coward to genuflect to society's pressure and do what's "right" to others and not himself. I can help my fellow man a lot more alive than dead for some random broad on the street.
This isn't selfishness. This is knowing that I'm a valuable citizen and man.
Moral choices are of course the province of each man.
While I still find think it's a bit easier to hypothetically talk about what one might do when there not staring down at some random stranger, I will for the sake of argument simply believe you when you say you'll fight for a seat on the life boat.
This also isn't a rehashed version of chivalry, but a simple moral choice. I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I condemned some pregnant women to death, and make no mistake that is what you're doing. We have no control over outside events, say a ship hitting an iceberg, but we do have control over how we respond to those events.
We can choose to aid said women, and increase her chances of survival or we can choose not to. By not choosing to help her, we've most likely condemned her to death, and that is a decision you've made.
There is in my mind a big difference between being some starry-eyed beta walking around worshipping the cult of women, and making a choice to potentially give up your life in an extraordinary situation.
Make no mistake, I would fight to survive in the context that I would be dog paddling or doing whatever I could. I refuse though to try to justify my existence by contributing to the death of a pregnant female.
The idea goes against the grain, and my own sense of morality.
Like I said moral choices are the province of each man, and the consequences of those choices are theres to shoulder. For me personally though, there are simply some things worse than death.
Why does it matter what gender they are? Why does it matter whether they're pregnant or not?