*Because this thread was locked up when I called out a person for scamming the community and took away to some degree from the focus on gaining access to clubs I am reopening this thread without that part although it will include ways to spot scams and typical scam behavior from predatory hosts, taxis, et al.
The Structure of Night Clubs
First, you have to understand, that clubs want there to be a big long line stretching around to infinity. The longer the better. This gives the appearance that the club is hot and exclusive.
There are varying levels of entry:
Level 1, General admission/entry; This is the worst way to get into a club. You will be in that long line and you will pay full cover price. It doesn't matter if you have girls, they pay too. The general admission price varies depending on the night, it can be anywhere from 50 dollars on up to several hundred (sometimes more, think Memorial Day Weekend in May).
Level 2, Guest List/VIP List
That stupid line is also the easiest to avoid, all you have to do is find a club that you're interested in partying at and find them on Facebook. You will see club hosts with names like "Joe at hakkasan".
Friend request Joe and start a conversation with him. ALL club hosts, waitresses, and bartenders have guest lists that they have to fill.
*quick note* The difference between a "host" and a "promotor" is that a host can cut deals and sells bottles/tables. A promotor is just some guy that get's paid 3 dollars a head for getting you on the guest list/VIP list.
Get Joe to put you and your buddies on the guest list. This line is usually shorter and usually has a reduced cover or free entry (except for big weekends).
Alternatively you can find a promotor thats standing around in the casino somewhere with a flyer. Usually you can find these guys trolling the casino a couple hours before the club opens.
The VIP list is just called that to make you feel better for standing in line (but it is a slightly better than general admission and also easy to be put on). The promotor will claim it's a requirement to have girls with you and have you show up before 11pm. The girls are a grey area, if you are looking great (perhaps suited down) you might not need girls to be with you. It's better to have girls and they will close the VIP line around 11pm so get there early.
Level 3, The Host;
Joe at Hakkasan isn't a fool, if you talk to him and tell him you met a month ago and that he said he would hook you up when you get back he will play along. "So you want a table"?
No Joe, no I don't.
Work something out so you can show up, with you, your buddies and a some girls and Joe will walk you all in past the bullshit lines if you tip him roughly the same amount as the cover for that night.
Is Joe going to turn down 300 bucks to walk 5 people in when the cover is 100 bucks per person? No. Joe won't do that, and if you are cool Joe will do it for less and give you some drink tickets that will save you 20 bucks a drink.
Here's where some savvy game will go a long way. These hosts (the ones actually working for a club) are not all money hungry dickheads, they're usually pretty cool and if you look after them, they will look after you. What you have to decide is how much your time is worth. Do you want to wait in line for a couple hours with the plebs or do you want to look cool with the girls that are with you?
Level 4, Bottle Service;
The worst thing you can do is contact the club directly, they will charge you retail for whatever that night happens to be.
If you've developed a relationship with Joe he will be more willing to come down on the price. Hopefully you've spoken to more than one person so you can kind of play them against each other (generally if another host from the same club has quoted you a lower price, they will not go lower but will say "ah yeah Mike might have some special rate going on, you should talk to him") My advice is not to use female hosts, they don't see a person, they see a dollar sign like a stripper would however sometimes you can get some interest from them if you become Facebook friends (making them see you as a person) and they are more willing to work with you (but that's another story).
Hosts have quotas they have to meet with how many bottles they sell. Knowing that and being cool can get you a 2 for 1 deal, or you'll pay for a shitty table and get a good one or any number of things.
But here's the kicker, you will still have to wait in a line for a bit. If Deadmau5 is playing, it could be an hour.
Obviously it would be better for you if you had some connection through a friend.
Costs for a bottle on a decent night at a top venue at an average table for 3 guys and 3 girls should be in the neighborhood of 600 dollars (+/- 100-200).
The better your relationship with the host and depending on his seniority in the club, the better price you can get or better perks.
Alternate Method: Presale Tickets Online
As mentioned in the other thread I linked to you can go online and buy a ticket presale. These seem to be cheaper for general admission and after a little looking, there seems to now be tiers of entry and access. I've never needed these so I can't say how quick you can get in with these tickets.
*Special Note: Industry Night*
This is any night usually besides Friday and Saturday that clubs cater to locals. It's the best night for getting specials and discounts at normally expensive venues. Sunday is very good.
These are your best nights to go out as well as save money. Fridays and Saturdays are shit shows and if you aren't a local with connections, you're gonna have to suck it.
Plan your vacation on days other than the weekend if possible.
Spotting Predatory Hosts, these are all typical characteristics
If someone claims to be an "independent host" chances are you simply don't need them. They make money the same way cheap promoters make money, by getting a commission for bringing people in.
So it's in the clubs interest to charge you full price.
Just like the taxi cab situation with strip clubs: If you take a taxi to a strip club, you will be charged the full cover price (around 50 USD) and that 50 will be paid to the taxi. Is this a rip off? Well it isn't "illegal". The taxi is going to charge you your fare and then collect 50 bucks per head. This is how most independent hosts work.
Taxis don't work for the clubs the same way that Independent Hosts don't work for the clubs. They simply "take you there". In this case, they are doing the exact same thing.
Of course the independent host will claim to be able to get you all sorts of perks that save you money or make it worth your while so you can see how this is in direct conflict with the clubs interests and reality.
Chances are also good that the independent host is completely out of touch for how much it costs for a bottle that night and so he will have a "set price" for his services that he will claim includes all sorts of tips to various people because "that's how it works".
*that's not how "it" works*
In reality this price is usually so ridiculously high that it covers whatever amount the club will charge so that he will make a profit on what you pay. In addition he will be making a small commission from the club for bringing in business.
This independent host may claim that he's had "clients" pay as much as 15k for a table at a club and that you are getting a deal for only 3000 (or whatever).
Firstly, there is a wide range for how much a table costs (clarification: a table and bottle are basically the same thing. You get a table if you buy a bottle)
Factors such as how many bottles you buy, how many guys you have in your group, how many girls you have, what table and what part of the club you have all go into this little number.
A large party will always cost more, that's simple. But to be perfectly honest, 15k is chump change compared to what some people (especially club VIPs) spend. If this is what your host is bragging about or pressuring you into feeling like he's giving you a deal, he isn't.
Further, club VIPs don't usually use independent hosts unless they developed a relationship over many years where the club host finally built up enough connections within the industry and a solid book of business that he has true contacts throughout the city.
An indépendant host that truly has these connections is rare. For one thing the business is always changing, people leave and go elsewhere, they change clubs, they get promoted to other things, they get recruited to open clubs in other cities, they get other jobs outside the industry, they get fired etc. If the guy isn't actually living here in Vegas, he has no way of keeping tabs on who is who and what is what.
Finally, there are really only about 8-10 big time clubs here. Everyone knows everyone of importance (including personnel at 2nd tier clubs). If no one has ever heard of your independent host before (real name or fake) then you are being taken for a ride.
He may slap hands with people and joke around like he knows people at the entrance but that is part of the game in Vegas (and clubs in general).
Speaking of which, that's a big read flag. If your host is doing the negotiating THERE it's because he doesn't have any contacts. If he's legit he can walk up and ropes get opened up without any questions.
Characteristics of Legit Hosts
First, at top tier clubs these guys usually have all been in this game for a long time and have a long list of clients they brought with them.
They work for the venue directly. They are not "independent".
Typically, if you are really a baller a casino host will introduce you to a club host. They also get referrals from other clients they have looked after.
They aren't going to try to gouge you for simple things even if you haven't bought a table from them. Things like being on the guest list will be no charge (you are helping them fill a requirement) and being walked to the front of the line and COMPED entry will usually be a 100 dollar affair. (if for example, someone is charging you 400 to refer you to an independent host that can't guarantee anything this is a scam) When you deal in "steak and not hamburger" you get club entrance gratis for that kind of money or a table. That isn't steak, that isn't even hamburger, that's just bullshit.
If you want to go to another club, a host will know someone at the next venue and will text that person that you are coming and tell you who to ask for. This is done as a courtesy. They wouldn't even think to charge you for it. It's up to the host at the next club if he's going to tip the guy for the referral but often, unless there's some huge amount being spent, it's just waived off because goodwill goes a long way in this business and good hosts are making more than enough to want to nickel and dime you.
Good hosts want to build a relationship with you so that they can get your business. They are rarely too busy to do something like put you on the guest list. They will often say "sure not problem, just keep me in mind when you want a table and let me know how I can help you".
You will never hear them talking about how badass they are. Clubs don't like that. They want professionals not loudmouths.
Senior hosts are given discretion about who is good for business, what clientele they want in the club etc. These hosts are given a lot of leeway on comps.
Club Hosts get so many drink tickets and comps to give out each night, independent hosts don't get these for obvious reasons.
A word about prices:
There was a lot of comparison to what independent hosts charge. Prices on game books and even personal training were brought up. That's and Apples to Oranges comparison.
An Apples to Apples comparison is What club host A charges compared to what independent host B charges. If club host B is charging a lot more (or anything for services that are generally free) then that is my definition of a ripoff. Independent Host B couldn't charge this if he was being honest. He is preying on your ignorance.
The Structure of Night Clubs
First, you have to understand, that clubs want there to be a big long line stretching around to infinity. The longer the better. This gives the appearance that the club is hot and exclusive.
There are varying levels of entry:
Level 1, General admission/entry; This is the worst way to get into a club. You will be in that long line and you will pay full cover price. It doesn't matter if you have girls, they pay too. The general admission price varies depending on the night, it can be anywhere from 50 dollars on up to several hundred (sometimes more, think Memorial Day Weekend in May).
Level 2, Guest List/VIP List
That stupid line is also the easiest to avoid, all you have to do is find a club that you're interested in partying at and find them on Facebook. You will see club hosts with names like "Joe at hakkasan".
Friend request Joe and start a conversation with him. ALL club hosts, waitresses, and bartenders have guest lists that they have to fill.
*quick note* The difference between a "host" and a "promotor" is that a host can cut deals and sells bottles/tables. A promotor is just some guy that get's paid 3 dollars a head for getting you on the guest list/VIP list.
Get Joe to put you and your buddies on the guest list. This line is usually shorter and usually has a reduced cover or free entry (except for big weekends).
Alternatively you can find a promotor thats standing around in the casino somewhere with a flyer. Usually you can find these guys trolling the casino a couple hours before the club opens.
The VIP list is just called that to make you feel better for standing in line (but it is a slightly better than general admission and also easy to be put on). The promotor will claim it's a requirement to have girls with you and have you show up before 11pm. The girls are a grey area, if you are looking great (perhaps suited down) you might not need girls to be with you. It's better to have girls and they will close the VIP line around 11pm so get there early.
Level 3, The Host;
Joe at Hakkasan isn't a fool, if you talk to him and tell him you met a month ago and that he said he would hook you up when you get back he will play along. "So you want a table"?
No Joe, no I don't.
Work something out so you can show up, with you, your buddies and a some girls and Joe will walk you all in past the bullshit lines if you tip him roughly the same amount as the cover for that night.
Is Joe going to turn down 300 bucks to walk 5 people in when the cover is 100 bucks per person? No. Joe won't do that, and if you are cool Joe will do it for less and give you some drink tickets that will save you 20 bucks a drink.
Here's where some savvy game will go a long way. These hosts (the ones actually working for a club) are not all money hungry dickheads, they're usually pretty cool and if you look after them, they will look after you. What you have to decide is how much your time is worth. Do you want to wait in line for a couple hours with the plebs or do you want to look cool with the girls that are with you?
Level 4, Bottle Service;
The worst thing you can do is contact the club directly, they will charge you retail for whatever that night happens to be.
If you've developed a relationship with Joe he will be more willing to come down on the price. Hopefully you've spoken to more than one person so you can kind of play them against each other (generally if another host from the same club has quoted you a lower price, they will not go lower but will say "ah yeah Mike might have some special rate going on, you should talk to him") My advice is not to use female hosts, they don't see a person, they see a dollar sign like a stripper would however sometimes you can get some interest from them if you become Facebook friends (making them see you as a person) and they are more willing to work with you (but that's another story).
Hosts have quotas they have to meet with how many bottles they sell. Knowing that and being cool can get you a 2 for 1 deal, or you'll pay for a shitty table and get a good one or any number of things.
But here's the kicker, you will still have to wait in a line for a bit. If Deadmau5 is playing, it could be an hour.
Obviously it would be better for you if you had some connection through a friend.
Costs for a bottle on a decent night at a top venue at an average table for 3 guys and 3 girls should be in the neighborhood of 600 dollars (+/- 100-200).
The better your relationship with the host and depending on his seniority in the club, the better price you can get or better perks.
Alternate Method: Presale Tickets Online
As mentioned in the other thread I linked to you can go online and buy a ticket presale. These seem to be cheaper for general admission and after a little looking, there seems to now be tiers of entry and access. I've never needed these so I can't say how quick you can get in with these tickets.
*Special Note: Industry Night*
This is any night usually besides Friday and Saturday that clubs cater to locals. It's the best night for getting specials and discounts at normally expensive venues. Sunday is very good.
These are your best nights to go out as well as save money. Fridays and Saturdays are shit shows and if you aren't a local with connections, you're gonna have to suck it.
Plan your vacation on days other than the weekend if possible.
Spotting Predatory Hosts, these are all typical characteristics
If someone claims to be an "independent host" chances are you simply don't need them. They make money the same way cheap promoters make money, by getting a commission for bringing people in.
So it's in the clubs interest to charge you full price.
Just like the taxi cab situation with strip clubs: If you take a taxi to a strip club, you will be charged the full cover price (around 50 USD) and that 50 will be paid to the taxi. Is this a rip off? Well it isn't "illegal". The taxi is going to charge you your fare and then collect 50 bucks per head. This is how most independent hosts work.
Taxis don't work for the clubs the same way that Independent Hosts don't work for the clubs. They simply "take you there". In this case, they are doing the exact same thing.
Of course the independent host will claim to be able to get you all sorts of perks that save you money or make it worth your while so you can see how this is in direct conflict with the clubs interests and reality.
Chances are also good that the independent host is completely out of touch for how much it costs for a bottle that night and so he will have a "set price" for his services that he will claim includes all sorts of tips to various people because "that's how it works".
*that's not how "it" works*
In reality this price is usually so ridiculously high that it covers whatever amount the club will charge so that he will make a profit on what you pay. In addition he will be making a small commission from the club for bringing in business.
This independent host may claim that he's had "clients" pay as much as 15k for a table at a club and that you are getting a deal for only 3000 (or whatever).
Firstly, there is a wide range for how much a table costs (clarification: a table and bottle are basically the same thing. You get a table if you buy a bottle)
Factors such as how many bottles you buy, how many guys you have in your group, how many girls you have, what table and what part of the club you have all go into this little number.
A large party will always cost more, that's simple. But to be perfectly honest, 15k is chump change compared to what some people (especially club VIPs) spend. If this is what your host is bragging about or pressuring you into feeling like he's giving you a deal, he isn't.
Further, club VIPs don't usually use independent hosts unless they developed a relationship over many years where the club host finally built up enough connections within the industry and a solid book of business that he has true contacts throughout the city.
An indépendant host that truly has these connections is rare. For one thing the business is always changing, people leave and go elsewhere, they change clubs, they get promoted to other things, they get recruited to open clubs in other cities, they get other jobs outside the industry, they get fired etc. If the guy isn't actually living here in Vegas, he has no way of keeping tabs on who is who and what is what.
Finally, there are really only about 8-10 big time clubs here. Everyone knows everyone of importance (including personnel at 2nd tier clubs). If no one has ever heard of your independent host before (real name or fake) then you are being taken for a ride.
He may slap hands with people and joke around like he knows people at the entrance but that is part of the game in Vegas (and clubs in general).
Speaking of which, that's a big read flag. If your host is doing the negotiating THERE it's because he doesn't have any contacts. If he's legit he can walk up and ropes get opened up without any questions.
Characteristics of Legit Hosts
First, at top tier clubs these guys usually have all been in this game for a long time and have a long list of clients they brought with them.
They work for the venue directly. They are not "independent".
Typically, if you are really a baller a casino host will introduce you to a club host. They also get referrals from other clients they have looked after.
They aren't going to try to gouge you for simple things even if you haven't bought a table from them. Things like being on the guest list will be no charge (you are helping them fill a requirement) and being walked to the front of the line and COMPED entry will usually be a 100 dollar affair. (if for example, someone is charging you 400 to refer you to an independent host that can't guarantee anything this is a scam) When you deal in "steak and not hamburger" you get club entrance gratis for that kind of money or a table. That isn't steak, that isn't even hamburger, that's just bullshit.
If you want to go to another club, a host will know someone at the next venue and will text that person that you are coming and tell you who to ask for. This is done as a courtesy. They wouldn't even think to charge you for it. It's up to the host at the next club if he's going to tip the guy for the referral but often, unless there's some huge amount being spent, it's just waived off because goodwill goes a long way in this business and good hosts are making more than enough to want to nickel and dime you.
Good hosts want to build a relationship with you so that they can get your business. They are rarely too busy to do something like put you on the guest list. They will often say "sure not problem, just keep me in mind when you want a table and let me know how I can help you".
You will never hear them talking about how badass they are. Clubs don't like that. They want professionals not loudmouths.
Senior hosts are given discretion about who is good for business, what clientele they want in the club etc. These hosts are given a lot of leeway on comps.
Club Hosts get so many drink tickets and comps to give out each night, independent hosts don't get these for obvious reasons.
A word about prices:
There was a lot of comparison to what independent hosts charge. Prices on game books and even personal training were brought up. That's and Apples to Oranges comparison.
An Apples to Apples comparison is What club host A charges compared to what independent host B charges. If club host B is charging a lot more (or anything for services that are generally free) then that is my definition of a ripoff. Independent Host B couldn't charge this if he was being honest. He is preying on your ignorance.