Spoke to a friend tonight about her experiences on OKC. Good-looking redhead, used to be an 9 in her day, probably a 7-8 now, but looks way younger.
Before I go any further I want to stress she is NOT a train wreck, not overweight, no kids, steady job, and looks a bit like Amy Grant. Still has nice, long red hair. Compared to a lot of women her age, she's doing pretty well looks-wise.
When I met her at 17 she was working in a shopping mall at a consumer kiosk. Guys gave her so much attention I had to compete. Things have changed and I think there's some insight here for us.
Here is what I came away with:
1). She's been on for around five months and gotten no actual dates. Or hook-ups.
2). Remember the OKC experiment where women got all those messages? That's true. But what they failed to tell us was most of those messages were on the level of "Nice tits!" So the quantity doesn't equal quality. AND (this is important) the clutter of these messages can cause decent messages to get lost, esp. when the woman in question is in a state of disgust because of this whole process.
3). More about that OKC experiment: It claimed men get few messages. But it didn't say why. So I asked her why she didn't send some messages herself? "Because I don't want to look too forward (i.e. easy) and make the wrong impression." Neither feminism nor technology will change this facet of human nature. Normal women do not want to be the aggressors.
4). Flaking is not exclusive to women. Two guys set up dates with her. Both flaked. Neither answered her "What's up?" text. She made it a point to tell me one of the guys was a "big guy" (i.e. fat) and even he stood her up.
5). This is in the DC metro area. It's not like it's rural Kentucky and the pickings are slim. There are a lot of men around.
6). Two other women I know who are a bit older had to get off Match.com because they found no one or the people they did find were complete losers (no jobs, trying to scam women). One is a tall blonde and another a brunette. I'd rate them both highly -- then and now. A fourth just gave up. A fifth (who I didn't know until today) was a friend of one and friended me out of the blue on Facebook after trying (and failing) to win my attention with some "jokes." Turns out, she gave up on Match too. Former cheerleader, still looks good. Her kids rule her out for me, but I digress.
What is happening here?
I know everyone's first impression is probably "they're just too picky," but this isn't what I'm getting. I really think the playing field does change after 35 and men have it much easier. The media is not telling the truth anymore and might have been more honest when Newsweek was writing stories about how older women were more likely to be attacked by terrorists that get married (see link for context).
What does this mean for us?
If you want to date online as an older guy, the big step seems to be setting yourself apart from the "Nice tits!" crowd. IMO the way to do this is avoid things that work in person, like the neg or compliment. Because they might be fine on their own, but will come off either nasty or pointless after a woman weeds through 50 "Show your tits!" messages. Context matters and a personalized message to show you're for real seems the best first step.
The other women I mentioned are now talking about moving from Match.com to POF or OKC. I didn't tell them that was like moving from Beverly Hills to downtown Detroit.
I also see all of this as taking a toll on these women. They seem to be in a state of crisis not just because they're dating online but because "I can't believe it's come to this" (i.e. failing even in this last resort).
If you're part of this older set and failing to engage these women, it might be their world-weariness from the process and not you. I'd urge persistence and not take it personally. I'm sure this power dynamic is reversed for guys ages 18-33 or so. And I know my anecdotal evidence does not equal "research," but these women are nice-looking enough that I think there is some truth to be found here.
Before I go any further I want to stress she is NOT a train wreck, not overweight, no kids, steady job, and looks a bit like Amy Grant. Still has nice, long red hair. Compared to a lot of women her age, she's doing pretty well looks-wise.
When I met her at 17 she was working in a shopping mall at a consumer kiosk. Guys gave her so much attention I had to compete. Things have changed and I think there's some insight here for us.
Here is what I came away with:
1). She's been on for around five months and gotten no actual dates. Or hook-ups.
2). Remember the OKC experiment where women got all those messages? That's true. But what they failed to tell us was most of those messages were on the level of "Nice tits!" So the quantity doesn't equal quality. AND (this is important) the clutter of these messages can cause decent messages to get lost, esp. when the woman in question is in a state of disgust because of this whole process.
3). More about that OKC experiment: It claimed men get few messages. But it didn't say why. So I asked her why she didn't send some messages herself? "Because I don't want to look too forward (i.e. easy) and make the wrong impression." Neither feminism nor technology will change this facet of human nature. Normal women do not want to be the aggressors.
4). Flaking is not exclusive to women. Two guys set up dates with her. Both flaked. Neither answered her "What's up?" text. She made it a point to tell me one of the guys was a "big guy" (i.e. fat) and even he stood her up.
5). This is in the DC metro area. It's not like it's rural Kentucky and the pickings are slim. There are a lot of men around.
6). Two other women I know who are a bit older had to get off Match.com because they found no one or the people they did find were complete losers (no jobs, trying to scam women). One is a tall blonde and another a brunette. I'd rate them both highly -- then and now. A fourth just gave up. A fifth (who I didn't know until today) was a friend of one and friended me out of the blue on Facebook after trying (and failing) to win my attention with some "jokes." Turns out, she gave up on Match too. Former cheerleader, still looks good. Her kids rule her out for me, but I digress.
What is happening here?
I know everyone's first impression is probably "they're just too picky," but this isn't what I'm getting. I really think the playing field does change after 35 and men have it much easier. The media is not telling the truth anymore and might have been more honest when Newsweek was writing stories about how older women were more likely to be attacked by terrorists that get married (see link for context).
What does this mean for us?
If you want to date online as an older guy, the big step seems to be setting yourself apart from the "Nice tits!" crowd. IMO the way to do this is avoid things that work in person, like the neg or compliment. Because they might be fine on their own, but will come off either nasty or pointless after a woman weeds through 50 "Show your tits!" messages. Context matters and a personalized message to show you're for real seems the best first step.
The other women I mentioned are now talking about moving from Match.com to POF or OKC. I didn't tell them that was like moving from Beverly Hills to downtown Detroit.
I also see all of this as taking a toll on these women. They seem to be in a state of crisis not just because they're dating online but because "I can't believe it's come to this" (i.e. failing even in this last resort).
If you're part of this older set and failing to engage these women, it might be their world-weariness from the process and not you. I'd urge persistence and not take it personally. I'm sure this power dynamic is reversed for guys ages 18-33 or so. And I know my anecdotal evidence does not equal "research," but these women are nice-looking enough that I think there is some truth to be found here.