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Staying Marketable as an Entrepreneur ( Finance edition) - TheThinker - 12-10-2014

TLDR; How do you stay marketable (particularly in finance but also in general) as a serial entrepreneur?

After 8 years of working for myself and enjoying the fruits of entreprenuership, I lost my last company almost 2 years ago and was reduced to poverty within 6 months. It was a huge wake up call to go from $100K months to $100 in my wallet. I reinvested poorly, was too generous, and took too many risks. I was very young and made decisions I wouldn't make today, though I had a good bit of fun.

I've spend the last 12 months regaining my mental state, closely assesing my strengths and weaknesses, and deciding how to move forward.

I realized that the biggest risk of entrepreneurship is that if you fail and you don't have marketable skills or some specialized knowledge with savings, you will eventually end up broke without a ton of options. Fine at 25, not great at 30 [Image: idea.gif], but bad at 40. I'm in the middle category.

You can of course build another business, but if you use all your dry powder and go bust, you better have an investor or be prepared to spend years fighting back slowly.

As for me, I realized I needed to develop skills that I was never in a position to really need as an online entrepreneur, which were mostly social skills like networking, small talk, etc while working to fill an almost decade gap of self-employment, where the only companies on my resume were ones created by yours truly. Not the best "insurance" or plan b if you need to get some scratch together with a legit 1040 gig in finance.

Now to the current situation: 30, college degree in finance, semi-broke

Last summer I was introduced to a company that buys millions in real estate tax liens each year. It's been a slow process getting my foot in the door, as they have a small team consisting of the owners who brought in people they trust. Their employed staff is probably less than 12.

After meeting one of the owners last year and getting great initial feedback (seemed impressed with me), I got nothing but crickets for 6 months after sending resumes and emails, etc. Then about four months ago they asked if I wanted to help with due diligence, accessing properties to get data for building out their financial models prior to a tax sale. It's good pay work but honestly anyone can do it and it's probably the bottom of the food chain. They're out of state and just need someone to drive the properties and make sure they aren't burnt down and assess their condition, value, occupancy, etc.

I've run this gig successfully for about 4 months now and I've been trusted to actually bid some of their sales this year. They've trusted me bidding up to 12M at one sale, and with cashier's checks up to $250K. Again, a little step up but 5 other guys they'll never hired in-house are doing the same thing.

I believe I've built a decent reputution for trust which is one of the hardest things to do with a company out of state that only a partner and CEO has met once. Luckily I'm in very close with the area manager above me, which is a very close friend of one of the owners. She's on my side and we text/chat almost daily.

The issue now is how to take this up a level, and if I have already messed up this particular opportunity.

Last month, one of the key managers called me and asked if I was still interested in doing some financial modeling for the company. I was honest in saying that most of my pursuits have been entreprenuerial since college (10 years ago) but that I've built some models personally and I'm good with numbers and my degree is in corporate finance. I belive I scared him off a little as he said, "It sounds like you're much more of an entreprenuer than anything else. How about you send me your resume and an example of a spreadsheet you've built."

He said it would take 4 key people to make a hire, so I wasn't expecting to hear back soon but it's been over a month at this point. I'm not overly concerned as I've been in this position before with them, waiting to get some feedback.

Let's say what I sent him didn't impress, as I have no work experience in financial modeling but have helped build companies up to millions in revenues and I have a good knack for numbers. I just don't see it being very difficult doing modeling for their line of business. It's not wall street. I see their bidding spreadsheets and it appears to be nothing more than risk analysis using property conditions with market and tax values and then setting the opeing and max bids to a percentage of LTV.

At the end of the day, my current gig is a 30K opportunity for 4 months a year during tax sales. With a chance to come on board for financial modeling and possibly list and sell the properties they get stuck with each year (I'm RE licensed), I can put something on my resume that will provide some added "insurance" for having a legimitate employer on my resume.

I realize this is very scattered and long-winded but I'm just looking to hear how you would turn this around and your opinions in general on entrepreneurship and how to keep yourself marketable, as most of us will untimately fail over and over (but hopefully get one big win that pays off).

I don't have any connections with analysts or anyone in financial modeling but I could teach myself (albeit not a quick solution to turn this around) at WSO with some of their tools or whatnot.

It's not easy trying to walk the line between keeping yourself marketable with a decent resume while trying to be the next millionaire entrepreneur.

What skills do you consider most valuable to keep polished?

How would you handle this?

Staying Marketable as an Entrepreneur ( Finance edition) - monster - 12-11-2014

Quote: (12-10-2014 11:41 PM)TheThinker Wrote:  

corporate finance. I belive I scared him off a little as he said, "It sounds like you're much more of an entreprenuer than anything else. How about you send me your resume and an example of a spreadsheet you've built."

He said it would take 4 key people to make a hire, so I wasn't expecting to hear back soon but it's been over a month at this point. I'm not overly concerned as I've been in this position before with them, waiting to get some feedback.

Let's say what I sent him didn't impress, as I have no work experience in financial modeling but have helped build companies up to millions in revenues and I have a good knack for numbers. I just don't see it being very difficult doing modeling for their line of business. It's not wall street. I see their bidding spreadsheets and it appears to be nothing more than risk analysis using property conditions with market and tax values and then setting the opeing and max bids to a percentage of LTV.

Basically, you lied about your modeling skills. it's fine & dandy that you "know" you could easily learn them, but that's what everyone says - "I'm a fast learner" You very well might be the 1% of the people who say this who actually are fast learners, but 99% of the people who say this are not fast learner.

Exaggerating your skills to HR = -1 points.

Quote:Quote:

I realize this is very scattered and long-winded but I'm just looking to hear how you would turn this around and your opinions in general on entrepreneurship and how to keep yourself marketable, as most of us will untimately fail over and over (but hopefully get one big win that pays off).

Tip #2: if you're looking to be hired by a company don't say you are an entrepreneur. Companies do not want to hire an entrepreneur because people who consider themselves entrepreneurs are likely to leave the company after using the company to learn new skills & make new connections for themselves. No one looking for a LTR wants a pump-n-dumper.

Staying Marketable as an Entrepreneur ( Finance edition) - samsamsam - 12-11-2014

May I ask what you were doing before, the company that went under? Not trying to be a prick, just curious. If you did so well in that industry why not start again?

Staying Marketable as an Entrepreneur ( Finance edition) - TheThinker - 12-11-2014

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Staying Marketable as an Entrepreneur ( Finance edition) - TheThinker - 12-11-2014

Quote: (12-11-2014 12:15 AM)monster Wrote:  

Quote: (12-10-2014 11:41 PM)TheThinker Wrote:  

I was honest in saying that most of my pursuits have been entreprenuerial since college (10 years ago) but that I've built some models personally and I'm good with numbers and my degree is in corporate finance. I belive I scared him off a little as he said, "It sounds like you're much more of an entreprenuer than anything else. How about you send me your resume and an example of a spreadsheet you've built."

Basically, you lied about your modeling skills. it's fine & dandy that you "know" you could easily learn them, but that's what everyone says - "I'm a fast learner" You very well might be the 1% of the people who say this who actually are fast learners, but 99% of the people who say this are not fast learner.

Exaggerating your skills to HR = -1 point

Added back the sentence you removed in my quote.

I never stated at any time that I had any work experience in financial modeling. I told him probaby too bluntly that I had zero experience outside my own personal models built for my own uses. I'm extremely comfortable with excel and probably downplayed my actual abilities.

You're correct about not bragging about entrepreneurship to those only looking to hire.

Staying Marketable as an Entrepreneur ( Finance edition) - TheThinker - 12-11-2014

Quote: (12-11-2014 12:28 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  

May I ask what you were doing before, the company that went under? Not trying to be a prick, just curious. If you did so well in that industry why not start again?

I did. I tried again with a new partner twice. Both times the industry was further regulated to the point that it was impossible to make money. 95% of the industry was regulated out business a few years ago. The risk/reward was way too extreme to continue.

Staying Marketable as an Entrepreneur ( Finance edition) - monster - 12-11-2014

Quote: (12-11-2014 12:35 AM)TheThinker Wrote:  

I was honest in saying that most of my pursuits have been entreprenuerial since college (10 years ago) but that I've built some models personally and I'm good with numbers and my degree is in corporate finance.

Exactly my point. Saying it like that sounds like you're good at modeling. If someone tells me, "I've built models personally and received a degree in finance," I think to myself "wow he must really know what he's doing then" but then if the examples he provides aren't up to part, there's a big disconnect & disappointment.

Staying Marketable as an Entrepreneur ( Finance edition) - TheThinker - 12-11-2014

That industry is dead to me now. I won't go back for any reason.

Many entrepreneurs must run into this situation, where they have decent success for a number of years, in a specific niche and then have to start over from scratch. Do they try, try again and then again in the same area? Do they try something new? What marketable skills do they have now that a 1040 is the only way to pay the bills?

I'm not saying for second that a cubicle is my dream or that I don't have a dozen business ideas right now.

I'm saying that if you end up on the wrong side of 30 or 40, what skills would you have wished you developed or learned in some way to have a "plan b"? How do you stay marketable as an entreprenuer?

Staying Marketable as an Entrepreneur ( Finance edition) - TheThinker - 12-11-2014

Quote: (12-11-2014 12:44 AM)monster Wrote:  

Quote: (12-11-2014 12:35 AM)TheThinker Wrote:  

I was honest in saying that most of my pursuits have been entreprenuerial since college (10 years ago) but that I've built some models personally and I'm good with numbers and my degree is in corporate finance.

Exactly my point. Saying it like that sounds like you're good at modeling. If someone tells me, "I've built models personally and received a degree in finance," I think to myself "wow he must really know what he's doing then" but then if the examples he provides aren't up to part, there's a big disconnect & disappointment.

The disappointment, I believe, or what I felt in terms of being on the phone with him, was when I stated bluntly that while I do have a degree in corporate finance that I have worked for myself for almost 10 years and have only built a few models personally, never for anyone professionally. That's when he sounded a little disappointed and said I'm mostly an entrepreneur which is correct. I believe the example I provided was on par with what I told him and obviously not the best he could get in hiring someone with that kind of background. Again, I don't believe he felt misled, just not impressed with my work experiene possibly. Not interested in debating this over and over; I get your point but don't agree that it's the case.

Just to be clear, it wasn't a shaby mess. It was a commission matrix using variable costs that included capital budgeting, NPV, and IRR.

Staying Marketable as an Entrepreneur ( Finance edition) - berserk - 12-11-2014

Good and relevant topic that many self employed might one day face.

I think one of the best ways to deal with this is to build a strong personal brand online. Get a blog, get every LinkedIn recommendation you can, take certifications and post them.

Get in a position where when you fail, you will have a bunch of people knowing your name already.

Staying Marketable as an Entrepreneur ( Finance edition) - ColSpanker - 12-11-2014

Good thread. Everyone wants to be the next Mark Thuckerberg, but few are going to grab that ring. I've been in a similar situation myself for the past 8 years after leaving the last industrial chemical company where I was employed. I've not seen The Thinker's numbers, but have had to deal with a business partner who was more interested in building up his personal company than ours. When I finally decided I had to get a day job I tried getting into sales, since that was what I had done for the previous 2 years. I kept getting the "Why don't you go back to the lab?" snips until I was forced to take a job in retail.
Re-starting at the bottom of a food chain can be a humbling experience.

Staying Marketable as an Entrepreneur ( Finance edition) - TheThinker - 12-11-2014

^^ Yes, it's frustrating as hell and then very humbling. In my case, I went from condos in Las Vegas and Spearmint Rhino on weekends to cutting everything out of my life that wasn't essential. I retreated and reassed. I took a deep look at myself. I went from narcassistic to a decent person. I built back relationships with friends and my mother. I found a bit of peace.

More than anything, I had to learn social skills that I had never developed as an introverted online entrepreneur. Yes, I could put a team together over the phone and build business relationships for years, but I didn't understand or care to understand how to make people like me and how to carry on small talk conversations. I didn't see the point. I didn't care to understand or make friends. I didn't neccessarily even like many people or really need friends except a few very close ones. I wan't sociable in general and saw it mostly as a waste of time that would leave you average and poor. If it wasn't getting me laid or making me money, I had no interest.

As berserk said, I've now realized how import it is having a bunch of people knowing your name in case you fail. Networking. Now, I can't think of anything more important than branding yourself not neccessarily as an expert but as the most loyal, hardworking, and LIKEABLE, trustworthy person possible to every decision maker and head-honcho you come across. It parallels so much with game. You have to have the balls to open up every succesful looking person that you come across, introduce yourself, be genuine in making small talk and build fast rapport and be very likable. No bragging, just dropping bait about successes here and there. Then following up with contact and keeping that line open.

The issue for me now is, much like ColSpanker, what exact industry/area/field do you focus on. People like to put everyone into a box because they just want a robot that knows how to pull this exact lever and why would you want to pull a different lever when you've been pulling the other one for 8 years. Hmmm...that's HR for you. They are the least entrepreneurial people on earth.

Let's try to brainstorm and discuss industries and skills in the 1040 world that parallel to entrepreneurship.

1. Learning how to manage and operate a small business by working at one for a number of years. Working your way to store manager isn't that difficult for smaller retail shops and teaches you a lot of skills necessary to run your own business one day.

2. Marketing expert. If you can learn SEO or SEM and can bring in more customers to any business, you will have a job. It can be 1040 or IC but either way marketing is a good industry for learning as an entrepreneur that has tremendous "plan b" 1040 applications.

3. Now to the harder to get jobs that can parallel. Private Equity/Financial Analyst/Venture Capital. All of these can be extremely difficult to obtain employment as the industry is very competitive.

I don't have any experience with Private Equity, but it's something I wish I had pursued harder right out of college. Essentially learning how to financially turn around companies. It's heavy in Financial Analysis and understanding industries in depth. Hard to get into and harder to stay in from what I hear.

As WestCoast said, if you aren't in it by 30 (Financial Analyst), you're chances go downhill. You won't have the energy for 80 hour weeks and the toll will age you rapidly if you aren't in peak physical and mental shape. But if you can get a big name on your resume, you have options down the road and can eventually break into some other fields or do your own thing.

Guy Kawasaki says that Venture Capital is something to do towards the end of your career not at the beginning. Basically if you are a serial entrepreneur with some decent successes along the way, VC might be an option for you down the line. This one is particularly interesting to me because it seems like a real potential plan b after decades of entrepreneurship.

2. Turn around specialists. Business Consulting. With the number of business failures exceeding the number of new start-ups for the first time (2008) in a number of decades, there are a lot of small business owners that need help getting out of the ditch. This is an area I am going to semi-focus on as I have built companies from scratch and understand lean operations. Kind of like "The Profit" with Marcus Lemonis but on a much smaller scale. He went from being middle class if I remember correctly, living in Florida to now a Billionaire by buying up mom and pop RV shops across the country to build Camping World and Good Sam or something like that. You can see that we're still slipping back into self-employed mode now as consultant or you come in as a percentage owner.

3. Start-up specialist. Feasibility Consulting, etc. With everyone watching Shark Tank and wanting to strike it rich with their big idea, you can be an implementation specialist that consults with others about how to take their ideas and build a plan to brign it to fruition or let them know it's not worth their time. To paraphrase Robert Herjavec, the biggest mistake people make in business is to stay with an idea that will never work. You're there to stear them towards the right solutions or tell them to cut ties.

Gotta run for now. Add more if you think of others.

Staying Marketable as an Entrepreneur ( Finance edition) - jake1720 - 12-11-2014

Management Consulting? (Turn around specialists?)

You're not going to be the next McKinsey. However if you're specialized in one area I know businesses will pay big money to someone who has experience to improve operations.

I see a lot of people brand themselves as "life coaches" and "experts". It may be that if you have the ability to sell yourself that well you can probably pull yourself off as anything. You could always lie on your resume. Create a fake website, get your buddy as the "CEO" on the phone.

Not saying it's good to do, but I've heard of it working.

Also, if you're serious about finance you don't always start as an analyst. Look at wallstreetplayboys.com. It's really good for finance information.

Staying Marketable as an Entrepreneur ( Finance edition) - worldwidetraveler - 12-11-2014

Quote: (12-11-2014 12:58 AM)TheThinker Wrote:  

How do you stay marketable as an entreprenuer?

You are either an entrepreneur or you're not. You most definitely don't start a business wondering if you are going to be marketable if things go south.

I can only speak for myself, but I would rather rebuild over and over again than take a job and hope my employers throw me enough scraps to have a decent life.

I hope I have the most unmarketable skills on the planet. All the better for me to make sure whatever I'm working on pays out.

No offense, but it sounds like you really didn't have a business to begin with. Maybe you jumped on the diet pill/trial offers that scammed a lot of people. I don't know if you were into that or not but it sounds like it with your regulation comments. If that is the case, you really weren't an entrepreneur and it wasn't going to last forever anyway.

Staying Marketable as an Entrepreneur ( Finance edition) - TheThinker - 12-11-2014

Quote: (12-11-2014 04:47 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

Quote: (12-11-2014 12:58 AM)TheThinker Wrote:  

How do you stay marketable as an entreprenuer?

You are either an entrepreneur or you're not. You most definitely don't start a business wondering if you are going to be marketable if things go south.

I can only speak for myself, but I would rather rebuild over and over again than take a job and hope my employers throw me enough scraps to have a decent life.

I hope I have the most unmarketable skills on the planet. All the better for me to make sure whatever I'm working on pays out.

No offense, but it sounds like you really didn't have a business to begin with. Maybe you jumped on the diet pill/trial offers that scammed a lot of people. I don't know if you were into that or not but it sounds like it with your regulation comments. If that is the case, you really weren't an entrepreneur and it wasn't going to last forever anyway.

Yeah, because diet pills are the only industry that is regulated [Image: tard.gif]

I started my first company while still in college, purchasing and renovating homes. I found the properties, brought in the investors, contracted the work and did some improvements by hand. I made over 70K in profit in my first year. It was 2007 after I graduated and it was taking me 12 months to move inventory, so I exited that venture.

I then moved on to a number of REAL ventures including a couple of debt management (not settlement) companies with millions in trust accounts and millions in revenues. Those were the companies that were regulated out of business due to debt settlement scams that forced the FTC to change rules for the entire industry. To this date, we never had a single client complaint, not even to the BBB, but the industry was olbiterated in large part by rules about how businesses could charge, making it hard to stay profitable. Not something I'm going to discuss further.

I've also lauched some products that had decent but not stellar succes. I have a spreadsheet of over 30 businesses I've conceived that I would consider starting tomorrow. I have trademarks pending and websites built for a few of them, with my focus going towards the ones of greatest interest first. I will always be an entrepreneur. It's the one thing I know that I am without question. I have new ideas daily and I love evaluating them and putting them into action. Does this mean that if I spend a few hours a week coaching others how to get started with their own ideas, that I'm a sell-out?? Does it mean that if I take a year off to put 50k in the bank doing investment research and building contacts with a company doing 200M a year that I'm no longer worthy of the entrepreneur title. Please, I burned my boat at the shore a long time ago.

The reality is, a number of entrepreneurs will risk it all at one point or another and lose. That's just the nature of the beast. We all can't hit it big on the first round. Along with that, we're gonna need a way to stack cash quickly if we don't have investors on deck. I haven't needed investors since the real estate business in college, but yeah I'm working on that as well.

And yes, I would like to build valuable skills and contacts so if I need a quick loan or a gig to get back on my feet that I'm able to recover quickly. That's all I'm saying.

Staying Marketable as an Entrepreneur ( Finance edition) - TheThinker - 12-11-2014

Quote: (12-11-2014 02:15 PM)jake1720 Wrote:  

Management Consulting? (Turn around specialists?)

You're not going to be the next McKinsey. However if you're specialized in one area I know businesses will pay big money to someone who has experience to improve operations.

I see a lot of people brand themselves as "life coaches" and "experts". It may be that if you have the ability to sell yourself that well you can probably pull yourself off as anything. You could always lie on your resume. Create a fake website, get your buddy as the "CEO" on the phone.

Not saying it's good to do, but I've heard of it working.

Also, if you're serious about finance you don't always start as an analyst. Look at wallstreetplayboys.com. It's really good for finance information.

Not looking to be the next McKinsey or be an "expert" or "life coach" at anything. Honesty goes a long way as people can smell bullshit. Still, there are millions of small business owners that will cut a decent check or offer equity to someone that can help turn their business around. I'm talking family owned small businesses doing 1 to 2M in revenues. A lot of it isn't rocket science but they aren't going to call in McKinsey. 90% wont even know what that is, but yes it does take a bit of finese and rapport building. I've taken over a company before and I was barely 25. It's not out of line if the owner is struggling.

Staying Marketable as an Entrepreneur ( Finance edition) - Neo - 12-11-2014

TheThinker, I've read your posts with interest because I currently have a corporate job and have entrepreneurial hustles on the side.

There's a lot of blogs these days related to the current entrepreneur movement, and I've read WAY too many posts that advocate not having a back up plan. That by 'going all in' you will force yourself to succeed.

I think this is dangerous advice. Sure maybe the author of the blog did it, but he probably neglected to mention he had a cash buffer of 100k+.

Reading through your posts it seems that you erred on the side of too much risk and didn't diversify your skill-set.

Staying Marketable as an Entrepreneur ( Finance edition) - worldwidetraveler - 12-11-2014

Quote: (12-11-2014 06:30 PM)TheThinker Wrote:  

And yes, I would like to build valuable skills and contacts so if I need a quick loan or a gig to get back on my feet that I'm able to recover quickly. That's all I'm saying.

You seem to have missed my point entirely and decided to run off your resume which doesn't really matter here.

If you want marketable skills for a job, it isn't going to be found as an entrepreneur.

Staying Marketable as an Entrepreneur ( Finance edition) - worldwidetraveler - 12-11-2014

Quote: (12-11-2014 09:28 PM)Neo Wrote:  

Also I completely disagree with worldwide travelers black and white thinking. There's no shame in getting a job to get back on your feet while AT THE SAME TIME using that income to build another business. Working for someone doesn't make you less of an entrepreneur or a failure. In fact it eliminates all stress since your regular job is like corporate sponsorship to your side hustles.

That isn't even close to what I said. I never said there was any shame in working a job to get back on your feet. Sure, you can do a regular job and side hustles.

I have been relying only on myself to put money in my bank accounts for over a decade. In order to do so, I had to develop a lot of different skills. Marketable skills? Sure, if I would have concentrated 10 years on one particular skills set I could have been in the running with all the other people going for the same jobs. I didn't, because I needed to do a lot of different stuff running my own shop.

You're a corp bread winner, so I don't expect you to understand. What entrepreneurs do seems dangerous to most people. That is ok, most people are not cut out for the risks.

The OP proves my point, though, because he has been jumping from biz to biz and now can't get a decent job for the reasons I just stated.

If he had concentrated on his finance degree, worked and lived finance, he would have marketable skills.

Also, good luck being able to focus on your biz, your regular job and having a decent life. Something has to give and typically that side hustle remains a side hustle. I know I would have failed if I tried to juggle all of those. That is why I left my contracting gig paying me a mid six figures.

I'm not sure where you're coming up with this ebook stuff if that is in reference to me. I don't sell ebooks. I am in the software business. Everyone is a marketer. Don't make the mistake to think otherwise.

Staying Marketable as an Entrepreneur ( Finance edition) - Neo - 12-11-2014

Quote: (12-11-2014 09:43 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

Quote: (12-11-2014 09:28 PM)Neo Wrote:  

Also I completely disagree with worldwide travelers black and white thinking. There's no shame in getting a job to get back on your feet while AT THE SAME TIME using that income to build another business. Working for someone doesn't make you less of an entrepreneur or a failure. In fact it eliminates all stress since your regular job is like corporate sponsorship to your side hustles.

That isn't even close to what I said. I never said there was any shame in working a job to get back on your feet. Sure, you can do a regular job and side hustles.

I have been relying only on myself to put money in my bank accounts for over a decade. In order to do so, I had to develop a lot of different skills. Marketable skills? Sure, if I would have concentrated 10 years on one particular skills set I could have been in the running with all the other people going for the same jobs. I didn't, because I needed to do a lot of different stuff running my own shop.

You're a corp bread winner, so I don't expect you to understand. What entrepreneurs do seems dangerous to most people. That is ok, most people are not cut out for the risks.

The OP proves my point, though, because he has been jumping from biz to biz and now can't get a decent job for the reasons I just stated.

If he had concentrated on his finance degree, worked and lived finance, he would have marketable skills.

Also, good luck being able to focus on your biz, your regular job and having a decent life. Something has to give and typically that side hustle remains a side hustle. I know I would have failed if I tried to juggle all of those. That is why I left my contracting gig paying me a mid six figures.

I'm not sure where you're coming up with this ebook stuff if that is in reference to me. I don't sell ebooks. I am in the software business. Everyone is a marketer. Don't make the mistake to think otherwise.

WWT,

The ebook thing was not directed at you, not sure why you took it as as personal attack.

You stated above that he is either an entrepreneur or he's not and that you personally would rather rebuild over and over than take a job. I'm saying it's not the only way.

No point to argue bro, we just have different risk/reward strategies that's all.

Staying Marketable as an Entrepreneur ( Finance edition) - worldwidetraveler - 12-11-2014

Quote: (12-11-2014 10:51 PM)Neo Wrote:  

WWT,

The ebook thing was not directed at you, not sure why you took it as as personal attack.

I didn't take anything you said as a personal attack. I was clarifying what I do in case you thought I was into something else.

I have nothing against ebooks. I read many myself.

Quote:Quote:

You stated above that he is either an entrepreneur or he's not and that you personally would rather rebuild over and over than take a job. I'm saying it's not the only way.

I'm saying if he wants marketable skills that would get him a good job, those are skills he needs to concentrate on and develop.

It normally takes quite a few years to even be competitive with all the other people wanting the same job.

This is why he is having problems getting a decent paying job.

I don't feel I could go out tomorrow and get a job. I don't have the amount of time, with the specific skill set to allow me to compete with all the other people who have done nothing else besides that skill set.

As for doing both...

Not many people are able to build a successful business.

Add in working a full time job (many jobs require a lot of time out of the job to stay up on skills) and you have little left over for your side business.

I'm going based on my experiences. I just can't focus on a job and a business if I was serious about that business. Grant it, my previous consulting gigs were in IT which required me to keep up on technology. It's either one or the other and I made that choice over a decade ago.

Staying Marketable as an Entrepreneur ( Finance edition) - TheThinker - 12-14-2014

Quote: (12-11-2014 09:28 PM)Neo Wrote:  

TheThinker, I've read your posts with interest because I currently have a corporate job and have entrepreneurial hustles on the side.

There's a lot of blogs these days related to the current entrepreneur movement, and I've read WAY too many posts that advocate not having a back up plan. That by 'going all in' you will force yourself to succeed.

I think this is dangerous advice.

Agreed. As someone that really has NEVER worked for someone else for more than 4 months or used their degree for anything until a decade after college, I know the real risks of entrepreneurship. I've had products/services that people wanted, I've done 1M plus in revenues a year, I wasn't just trying to figure out how to make money; I was making good money and living a good life (outside of working my ass off) BUT...

It's undisputable that 90+% of entrepreneurs will fail, over and over. It's not even in your control some times. Yes, you can pivot over and over and over, but if a government or state or local municipality wants your industry dead, they will see to it. If a much larger company wants market share, you will struggle to keep your costs low enough to compete. If you aren't an expert in one area after many years of understanding the gaps in a segment, you won't have a competitive edge (hence why successful ventures are started by middle aged corporate guys that understand industries in and out). There are dozens and dozens of variables, many that are out of your control that can sink your ship.

The lesson I've learned are invalable, so yes it was all worth it and yes I will be back stronger than even within a few years. In fact, I'm working on a prototype for a product that I've calculated could do 12M just in my state alone. So NO, I will never stop being an entrepreneur. But you will only ever succeed in the long run if you really learn and cement some very hard lessons and respect that you can drop back to zero.

With that said, there is NOTHING wrong with trying to keep a decently marketable skillset polished, having good contacts that know you are a reliable person, or having a temporary position (be it 6 months, a year, or part-time) to make sure you can keep food on the table while you plan your next venture.

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Reading through your posts it seems that you erred on the side of too much risk and didn't diversify your skill-set.

Dead on. I stayed almost exclusively in a niche segement of an industry being decimated in front of my face. After a few years of million dollar revenues, I spent 3 years trying to turn around a sinking ship and I burned good money trying to recreate the past. I was stagnating personally because I spent every day battling to keep enough water out of the boat to keep it from sinking.

Lesson learned. Whether it's relationships or business - if the writing is on the wall - cut it off immediately and put your capital and time to better use.

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In your shoes I would do a deeper evaluation of the behaviors that led to your current situation. See what lessons you can learn.

IMO, there is nothing more important and valuable than building the awareness neccessary to view yourself objectively to learn from your mistakes.

Looking back, I had a redicuous EGO, which is something that often takes a long time for people to realize and understand as an impediment to success. I was insultingly confident, even to friends and family. I didn't value anyone or anything that wasn't related to business. I wasn't a reliable friend and barely had a relationhip with my family. I was definately ALL IN but only for myself.

I don't entirely agree with WWT's intial post, but I can see why he believes that it would be hard to do anything other than be a 100% entrepreneur. Back then I felt in a constant state of almost mild panic because I was CEO and the shit worked or hit the fan because of me. In reality, I was taking on every task and doing 95% of the work even though I had a business partner and a marketing director. I should have delegated more and taken on a more fair set of responsibilities.

I was also in a disasterous relationship, hadn't resolved my own insecurities, and didn't respect myself enough to limit the amount of stress/abuse others placed on me. I also had poor money management and risked my personal capital.

This is the CRUX of being a successful entrepreneur because CASH IS KING. In particular, I'm talking about in your personal life. I didn't misspend company funds. I had over a million in my clients trust accounts and not a dime went anywhere except to their creditors. That shit will land your ass in jail, so that's even more important.

But, when it comes to your personal finances, you better be aware and smart. Don't think that the gravy train can't end because it always will and you'll need resources to stay affloat and to figure out your next venture.

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Also I completely disagree with worldwide travelers black and white thinking. There's no shame in getting a job to get back on your feet while AT THE SAME TIME using that income to build another business. Working for someone doesn't make you less of an entrepreneur or a failure. In fact it eliminates all stress since your regular job is like corporate sponsorship to your side hustles. ...

A lot of marketers like to hate on the corporate world:

You're a slave man!
Quit your job now!

I use to hate regularly on the corportate world, even though honestly I was also afraid that I wouldn't fit in. My social skills were undeveloped and I spent most of my life planning my escape from the domination of others. I wanted 100% control of my time and 100% autonomy even if I barely scraped by. I can say that it probably came from being controlled heavily by my parents.

To this day, nothing is more important to me that having control over my time and being able to work on my projects. To me the money is inconsequential but I've learned it's essential.

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The key is not to stay in the warm blanket for too long and keep up the motivation.

Exactly, just like with relationships - it's hard to get out of that warm blanket even though it's worn, tattered and not really satisfying you. How many guys stay with the same semi-warm girl or semi-good job even if you know you can do better; but it's a risk and people don't like to be cold, broke or alone even temporarily. Luckily, not a problem for me personally these days. I learned that I value respect over love, and won't put up with shit- not from a stranger or from a boss. Even my current girlfriend knows that she comes second to my pursuits beccause self-actualization must precede all else.


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Do an experiment. In the US ask a roomful of people if they want a stable job or to start their own business. EVERYBODY wants to start their own business.

Right, but nobody wants to IMPLEMENT. Our government and most of the world thinks that Innovation will save us but it won't. Innovation means didly shit without DOERS.

But how does the guy with a 9-5 and a dream take a chance at a venture without jumping ship of losing his shirt? Just like you, he starts lean or he finds someone that's been down the road. Hence why we can give back and help others by showing them the path of least resistance and lowest risk. But again, we aren't McKinsey so we shouldn't try...

Quick Story:

I remember back when I had just gotten my first townhome style apartment. I was like 22 and finally had no roommates, and had been grinding it out an an entrepreneur with my latest new venture for a few years. I would make a few sales here and there and some months I would do okay. One month, I didn't make any sales and had to invest in marketing and I didn't have the cash to pay my power bill. I went home, the lights were off and I had to light candles just to take a shower. It was a low point that I've never fogotten it. I sat down and accepted where I was in life and however you want to say it or call it, I relinquished a good bit of my ego. I made a promise that I would remember these times and never forget this side of the coin, if the world would give me a chance to make it big. Within 1 year, I had $450,000 in my business bank account. Now, this wasn't net profit but it was night and day from where I was a short time previously. It showed me that I could do it. I just had many more lessons to learn and one was that I either didn't risk it all or I had to have some type of marketable skills or a temporary "plan b".

Thanks for adding value to this thread.

Staying Marketable as an Entrepreneur ( Finance edition) - TheThinker - 12-14-2014

Quote: (12-11-2014 04:47 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

Quote: (12-11-2014 12:58 AM)TheThinker Wrote:  

How do you stay marketable as an entreprenuer?

You are either an entrepreneur or you're not. You most definitely don't start a business wondering if you are going to be marketable if things go south.

I can only speak for myself, but I would rather rebuild over and over again than take a job and hope my employers throw me enough scraps to have a decent life.

I hope I have the most unmarketable skills on the planet. All the better for me to make sure whatever I'm working on pays out.

No offense, but it sounds like you really didn't have a business to begin with. Maybe you jumped on the diet pill/trial offers that scammed a lot of people. I don't know if you were into that or not but it sounds like it with your regulation comments. If that is the case, you really weren't an entrepreneur and it wasn't going to last forever anyway.

WWT, I have respect for your posts and I have no doubt that you've added tremendous value to many threads. I assume that NEO's interpretation of your comments above as "black and white" might have to do more with what appeared to be mild condescension towards the idea that someone could stay semi-marketable and still be an entrepreneur.

Some people get a paid industry education and then branch out knowing all the secrets and details and GAPS in the #1 or #2 company's products/services and become huge competition and wildly successesful.

Some like myself and you only know the world or risk and have built a strong tolerenace for volatility. If I had a backer right now, which I'm working on, I probably wouldn't work for anyone else except if I enjoyed it temporarily.

Others piddle around and enjoy the dreaming more than the doing and thats okay as well for them. They may be labeled wantrapreneurs but they like their blankets more than the cold.

...and there's NEO's plan which to me sounds like the smartest compromise to outright enterpreneurship. He realizes the warm blanket isn't the path and he has to cut the cord at a reasonable time (not just prior to retirement). He's calculating his exit and path into the wild probably at mid 30's and I can respect that as someone that just took a painful drop from a thousand feet.

I still respect that you are a diehard entrepreneur and your opinion that it's hard enough to win full time at the game and I definitely share your take on not begging for scraps.

As for whether it's possible to stay marketable as an entrepreneur, your answer seems very much to be "No".

Staying Marketable as an Entrepreneur ( Finance edition) - worldwidetraveler - 12-14-2014

Quote: (12-14-2014 03:32 PM)TheThinker Wrote:  

WWT, I have respect for your posts and I have no doubt that you've added tremendous value to many threads. I assume that NEO's interpretation of your comments above as "black and white" might have to do more with what appeared to be mild condescension towards the idea that someone could stay semi-marketable and still be an entrepreneur.

Some people get a paid industry education and then branch out knowing all the secrets and details and GAPS in the #1 or #2 company's products/services and become huge competition and wildly successesful.

Some like myself and you only know the world or risk and have built a strong tolerenace for volatility. If I had a backer right now, which I'm working on, I probably wouldn't work for anyone else except if I enjoyed it temporarily.

Others piddle around and enjoy the dreaming more than the doing and thats okay as well for them. They may be labeled wantrapreneurs but they like their blankets more than the cold.

...and there's NEO's plan which to me sounds like the smartest compromise to outright enterpreneurship. He realizes the warm blanket isn't the path and he has to cut the cord at a reasonable time (not just prior to retirement). He's calculating his exit and path into the wild probably at mid 30's and I can respect that as someone that just took a painful drop from a thousand feet.

I still respect that you are a diehard entrepreneur and your opinion that it's hard enough to win full time at the game and I definately share your take on not begging for scraps.

There was no condescension intended in my posts.

I could understand your point if you have already put in the time to hone a marketable skill. You didn't, you went right for the entrepreneurial path. Nothing wrong with that but to compete, for a job, you are going against other people who have focused on their marketable skill set and only that skill set for many years.

You seem to have already made up your mind.

You think you can dip your toes into two puddles and you will be safer because of it. I don't see it happening because of the reason I already stated. Even if you got back into your own gig, you will still be taking yourself out of competition for what could be years.

You really think a company would want to hire someone who works for a year or two only to leave to create their own company? And continue that cycle over and over again... You will end up in the same boat every time you leave.

Personally, I think you should have more faith in yourself to rebuild without investors.

Yes, my answer would be a no. [Image: smile.gif] I don't think marketable job skills and being an entrepreneur are "compatible" goals.

Staying Marketable as an Entrepreneur ( Finance edition) - TheThinker - 12-14-2014

It's true that I was rocked pretty hard and lost a bit of confidence from my last venture. I appreciate your comment saying that I should have more faith in myself. It's true. I can say with certainty that even with some ego, my lack of confidence has been a major stumbling block at times. I've been told this by a few very perceptive people.

While I knew I would never be able to commit fully in any corporate stint, I don't regret the last four months. I realize it was just a gig, but I was working independently and polishing my social skills by having to interact with a number of people in a corporate environment and I enjoyed the dynamic even though I would guess very few companies have this kind of culture. Plus I was making $400-$600 a day. It wasn't too piddly. Could it last - maybe not. I was working tiring days and that's why they could pay me decent but there was room to grow it seemed.

In terms of moving it to another level, yes you're correct that it's not possbile to compete in terms of apples-to-apples experience in fields you aren't building knowledge in with your endeavor. For example, I have zero chance of making it in IB right now. Like you said, I made my decision a long time ago but I could likely have a side gig every year with a firm like my current one just based on trust and experience. I could likely handle their due diligence, bidding, listings, renovations, and probably even financial modeling and pull in 90K remotely. The questions is, if I'm successful with my own venture, would it even be worth my time. What opportunity cost am I willing to give up in terms of time to work for someone else instead of myself?