The "truth" behind non-natural bodybuilding...

The "truth" behind non-natural bodybuilding... - Printable Version

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The "truth" behind non-natural bodybuilding... - Pyre - 09-18-2013

inhousepharmacy

The "truth" behind non-natural bodybuilding... - Wavy - 09-18-2013

yeah...I enjoy lifting, but never to that extent. I just wanna look good...not...whatever you wanna call it..

I admire it dont get me wrong, but damn...nah man. im fine with the basic stuff for now. weigh powder, eating 3000 + a day and staying dedicated. maybe a few years down the road i could consider some of this stuff if im feeling up for the challenge.

The "truth" behind non-natural bodybuilding... - MikeCF - 09-18-2013

Quote: (09-18-2013 07:25 AM)Frost Wrote:

Idiot doctor refuses to help a 23 year old guy with 340 ng/dl because he falls within the 'normal' range:

http://forums.menshealth.com/eve/forums/...3091085557

That is the idiocy we have fought to years.

Doctor says, "You're within range!"

You (logically) respond, "But that range is all men aged 18 to 70. I could be 25 years old with the test levels of a 50 year old man and still be in range."

Tough shit.

That's why I said on the first or second page, "Learn to be your own doctor."

You simply cannot trust these morons with anything.

TRT should be a wake up call. If doctors can't even figure out test (which is easy), then how can they treat cancer or other medical conditions?

Doctors = barbarians. 200 years ago they wouldn't even wash their hands after doing an autopsy and before delivering a baby.

400 years ago they were putting leeches on people.

Be your own doctor.

The "truth" behind non-natural bodybuilding... - MikeCF - 09-18-2013

Quote: (09-18-2013 07:30 AM)T and A Man Wrote:

Is there something behind gh15 writing like GB4M ?

If you write with a clear and distinctive voice and are an authority on a subject matter, you will be spotted.

It's a smokescreen. He is someone big and a few guys know who is here (or think they do).

Trenbolona testoserona gh15 approved is a way to keep guys off your trail.

The "truth" behind non-natural bodybuilding... - MikeCF - 09-18-2013

Quote: (09-18-2013 09:09 AM)Brisey Wrote:

MikeCF and Mikeymike, what GH do you use/recommend?
I've been on 4iu's of Omnitrope (somatropin) for the last couple of months, results have been good but I see mixed reviews so i'm wondering if I should try another type.

Thanks

mikemike and I respectfully disagree.

The riptropin kits that were out a year ago were the truth. How can you know? Based on results and also blood tests (such as elevated igf-1 levels).

Obviously FDA GH is ideal, but not everyone can get it and not everyone can afford it.

There were some generic blue tops floating around 3 years ago that were simply amazing.

It was $1.80 an iu. Generic crap from China but the results (which I witnessed in multiple people first hand) spoke for themselves.

Good gh = thin but vibrant skin, some fat loss, nagging injuries start healing, better sleep. Nothing drastic but after 6 months, people see you and just *know* something is up.

The "truth" behind non-natural bodybuilding... - Brisey - 09-19-2013

Quote: (09-18-2013 11:16 AM)mikeymike Wrote:

Quote: (09-18-2013 09:09 AM)Brisey Wrote:

MikeCF and Mikeymike, what GH do you use/recommend?
I've been on 4iu's of Omnitrope (somatropin) for the last couple of months, results have been good but I see mixed reviews so i'm wondering if I should try another type.

Thanks

Ive used plenty of omintrope, quality gh, anything fda approved has met high standards of quality and will be real gh. Ive put on good size with minimal increase in bf running omnis, its a nice dry gh, some like humatrope will bring on more water and the appearance of more size but in time theyll accomplish the same thing... ultimately ive used seros, norditropin, saizen, omnis, genos, tevtropin, humatrope and all treated me well...I have preferences amongst them but omnis are amongst the ones I prefer so if you got them enjoy!! my theory with fda gh is get the one you can get for the best price per iu. I havent had bad results on any of them.

Thanks for the info mate.

The "truth" behind non-natural bodybuilding... - 007 - 09-19-2013

Fair enough mate, everybody is entitled to their opinions. I've see guys doing really well on 2 week blasts, so take it for what you will. It is going to make you huge? Of course not, however I've seen some of guys develop respectable physiques on these ultra short cycles. People tend to have a knee jerk reaction when 2-3 week cycles are mentioned because they are so different to your traditional 8-16 week cycles. They are however a very safe option for bro's that just want to look good and not negatively affect their health. Just my 2 cents.

Quote: (09-18-2013 11:11 AM)mikeymike Wrote:

Quote: (09-18-2013 09:02 AM)007 Wrote:

Bro, if your test levels are in the upper normal range then do not fuck with it! I'm on trt because I was suffering form low testosterone.

You may want to consider very short 2 week blasts. They wont make you huge but over the course of a year you can transform your body like crazy whilst not harming your health or your natural test levels.

Try this

100mg per day of testosterone propionate for 14 days.
0.5 mg of arimidex m/w/f until day 14
25mg of clomid per day starting from day 10 and continue through to day 20-25.

Increase your calories during this two week period and then stay off for 6 weeks. Rinse and repeat.

I hope that helps

Quote: (09-17-2013 07:09 PM)Frost Wrote:

Respect to Reaper and the Mikes for sharing their knowledge.

TRT is definitely on my radar. I'm 28 and feel great, but if I can feel great+ with a cautious and minimal-risk cycle, I'm open to some experimentation. So, my question for those of you who know what they're talking about: What would you do in my situation?

28 years old
10+ years of training, ~900 lift totals
No interest in competitive bodybuilding, powerlifting, pro sports
T levels steadily near top of healthy range for the past five years
Cautious, not willing to trade more than a little bit of longevity for gains today

I imagine there are quite a few guys on the forum with basically the same profile who could benefit from the information as well.

Also, what would you recommend for a man in his thirties who wants to maintain his late-twenties quality of life for as long as possible? It;s too bad Mark Sisson has to pretend he's only on fish oil, I would love to figure out exactly what I need to do to look like that when I'm sixty.

No offense but what god awful advice. Riding aas for 2 weeks is akin to not doing anything. Regardless of whether you use aas or not muscle takes time to build, a lot of time, 2 weeks will accomplish nothing towards progressing your body. Short cycles exist but even those are a min of 4 weeks in duration and usually run with very high doses, get in get out, this low dose for no time approach is pointless.

To Frost:

There are a lot of ways you could go for a minimal risk blast, but it depends on your goals, would you like to lean out, would you like to put on some muscle, would you like to recomp. Give us a direction to work with and the goal you have in mind.

Mikecf laid out the anti aging protocols and hes on point, keeping your test levels optimal and gh are the keys to any anti aging plan. Adding beyond that is dependant on the goals.

The "truth" behind non-natural bodybuilding... - Pyre - 09-19-2013

I'll be at the olympia nxt wk. Anyone going?

The "truth" behind non-natural bodybuilding... - MunichSux - 09-21-2013

For those of you juicing up / thinking about doing so :

http://forums.musculardevelopment.com/sh...fc59760f74

http://forums.musculardevelopment.com/sh...erdam-Dead

http://www.musclemag.com/blog/facts-behi...j1QWH_X-yk

Pretty sad to realize that instead of adding years to one's life, the very same strength training that has immense benefits drug-free gets perverted by the chemical route - ruining one's health instead of nurturing it.

The "truth" behind non-natural bodybuilding... - Every10GivesMeA10 - 09-21-2013

Quote: (09-21-2013 02:54 AM)MunichSux Wrote:

For those of you juicing up / thinking about doing so :

http://forums.musculardevelopment.com/sh...fc59760f74

http://forums.musculardevelopment.com/sh...erdam-Dead

http://www.musclemag.com/blog/facts-behi...j1QWH_X-yk

Pretty sad to realize that instead of adding years to one's life, the very same strength training that has immense benefits drug-free gets perverted by the chemical route - ruining one's health instead of nurturing it.

Do you even know what those guys use? You cannot compare a guy running TRT, or even cycling a few times a year with an IFBB pro

This was the Olympia cycle for a top 6 guy. Someone you all know of.

1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th week:

ANDROGENIC/ANABOLIC:

SUSTANON (or OMNADREN) 250 mg - every other day
TESTOSTERON UNDECANOATE - 1000 mg (4ml shot, 250 mg/ml injections) - every Sunday
TRENBOLONE ACETATE 400 mg per week
DECA-DURABOLIN (Nandrolone Decanoate) 900 mg per week
OXANDROLONE (tablets) 60 mg/day (20 mg every 8 hours)
TURINABOL (tablets) 60 mg/day (20 mg every 8 hours)

ANTI-ESTROGENS:

2 mg ARIMIDEX (Anastrozole) per day
50 mg CLOMID (Clomiphene Citrate) - every day 25 mg in the morning + 25 mg 12 hours later

OTHER HORMONES:

Growth Hormone - 4 IU's ON EMPTY STOMACH and as many times a day as possible (up to 12 IU's a day)

Insulin - HUMALOG, 20 units 1 hour before every training, as scheduled

Thyroid:

T3 (Triiodothyronine) - 25 mcg per day (12.5 mcg morning + 12.5 mcg 12 hours later in the evening), first 2 weeks, than 37.5 mcg per day (25 mcg morning + 12.5 mcg 12 hours later in the evening) week #3 + week #4
T4 (Thyroxine)- 50 mcg per day (25 mcg in the morning + 25 mcg 12 hours later) first 2 weeks, than 100 mcg per day (50 mcg in the morning + 50 mcg 12 hours later) week #3 + week #4

XYREM - every night before sleep - 4.5 grams

5th, 6th, 7th, 8th week:

ANDROGENIC/ANABOLIC:

TESTOSTERONE Propionate 100 mg - every day
TESTOSTERON ENANTHATE 200 mg - every other day
TRENBOLONE Acetate 400 mg per week, week #5 + week #6
PRIMOBOLAN (Methelnolone) 600 mg per week, week #7 + week #8
EQUIPOSE (Boldenone) 600 mg per week
WINSTROL (Stanozolol) (tablets) 60 mg every day (20 mg every 8 hours)
OXYMETHOLONE (tablets) 150 mg per day (50 mg every 8 hours)

ANTI-ESTROGENS:

2-3 mg ARIMIDEX (Anastrozole) per day (1 mg in the morning, 1mg 12 hours later)

OTHER HORMONES:

Growth Hormone - 3-4 IU's ON EMPTY STOMACH and as many times a day as possible (12 to 16 units per day)

Insulin - HUMALOG, 15-20 units 1 hour before every training, as scheduled (depending on condition)

Thyroid:

T3 (Triiodothyronine) - 50 mcg per day (25 mcg morning + 25 mcg 12 hours later in the evening), first 2 weeks, than 75 mcg per day (37.5 mcg morning + 37.5 mcg 12 hours later in the evening) week #3 + week #4
T4 (Thyroxine)- 150 mcg per day (75 mcg in the morning + 75 mcg 12 hours later) first 2 weeks, than 200 mcg per day (100 mcg in the morning + 100 mcg 12 hours later) week #3 + week #4

XYREM - every night before sleeping 4.5 grams

9th, 10th, 11th, 12th week

ANDROGENIC/ANABOLIC:

TESTOSTERONE PROPIONATE 200 mg - every day
MASTERON (Drostanolon Propionate) 600 mg per week
OXANDROLONE (tablets) 60 mg every day (20 mg every 8 hours)
PRIMOBOLAN (Methelnolone) 600 mg per week, week #9 + week #10
HALOTESTIN (Fluoxymesterone) (tablets) 30 mg/day (10 mg every 8 hours)
PROVIRON (Mesterolone)(tablets) 150 mg/day (50 mg every 8 hours)
WINSTROL (Stanozolol) (injections) 50mg every day on week #9, 100mg every day on week #10, 150 mg every day on week #11...

ANTI-ESTROGENS:

3 mg ARIMIDEX (Anastrozole) per day (1 mg in the morning, 1mg 12 hours later)

OTHER HORMONES:

Growth Hormone - 3-4 IU's ON EMPTY STOMACH and as many times a day as possible (12 to 16 units per day)

Insulin - HUMALOG, 10 - 20 units 1 hour before every training, DEPENDING ON CONDITION

Thyroid:
T3 - (Triiodothyronine) - DEPENDS ON YOUR CONDITION
T4 (Thyroxine) - DEPENDS ON YOUR CONDITION

XYREM - every night before sleeping 4.5 grams
----------------------------------------------------------------

Normal TRT and anti aging dose and stack:
100-150mg test/week
2-4 IU's HGH/day
some t3/anavar to stay lean/dry.

Enough said.

The "truth" behind non-natural bodybuilding... - MunichSux - 09-21-2013

OK, was an "apple to oranges" comparsion, but still I cannot understand why one would not want to wait as long as possible before using roids.

The dosage scheme you've copied and pasted - any publicly available information or did you get it privately with the seal of "don't say who the pro is"?

The "truth" behind non-natural bodybuilding... - callaghan - 09-21-2013

bodybuilding is ok,it is a sport like any other
TRT is also ok as it is restoring to natural levels what is missing for various reasons

but non natural bodybuilding is the opposit direction if one wants to pursue the art of manliness :

pro BB are among the most unhealthy people that walk on earth:

they have to use:

drugs for mental illness because they their neurotrasmitter system (that is closely linked and intertwined to the hormone system) is screwed up
drugs for diabetics as their insulin system is screwed up
drugs for impotence as their libido system is screwed up
drugs for fertility as their spermatogenesis is altered
drugs to prevent testicutar athrophy caused by supraphysiologic levels of testosterone
drugs for dwarfism as the HGC hormone supraphysiologic dose cause variuos side effects
drugs used by cardiopatic patiens as the heart (that is a muscle) devolops above the thoracic cage capacity
drugs used by hermaphrodites as they develop gynecomasia
..and much more

some people with exeptionally gifted genetics are able to go through all this shit juggling with hospitals surgeries and medicines but still it does imply that is a healthy way of life

I want to point out that I believe in freedom and if this is the life these fellas want to pursue consciously so be it , I am not against it but I am against some kind of suggestions happing in this forum as they are the exact opposite path that is conducive to the art of manliness ...

The "truth" behind non-natural bodybuilding... - reaper23 - 09-21-2013

no one here is advocating body builder level drug abuse. these are straw men arguments. get outta here with that shit

The "truth" behind non-natural bodybuilding... - MikeCF - 09-21-2013

Quote: (09-21-2013 02:54 AM)MunichSux Wrote:

For those of you juicing up / thinking about doing so :
Pretty sad to realize that instead of adding years to one's life, the very same strength training that has immense benefits drug-free gets perverted by the chemical route - ruining one's health instead of nurturing it.

You are a troll and a moron. I already exposed your ignorance pages ago.

Go find a thread where you can actually contribute something useful.

The "truth" behind non-natural bodybuilding... - MikeCF - 09-21-2013

Quote: (09-21-2013 07:37 AM)callaghan Wrote:

but non natural bodybuilding is the opposit direction if one wants to pursue the art of manliness :

pro BB are among the most unhealthy people that walk on earth:

No one is trying to be Ronnie Coleman or take pro levels of drugs.

That was mentioned pages ago.

Have you not read this thread or do you not know how to read or do you just want to troll?

Everyone has something to contribute.

You and other anti-muscle/anti-steroid trolls should find a thread where you actually ahve some personal experience. Contribute something useful there rather than share your uninformed, ignorant, hysterical, feminist like views here.

The "truth" behind non-natural bodybuilding... - callaghan - 09-21-2013

[/quote]

You and other anti-muscle/anti-steroid trolls should find a thread where you actually ahve some personal experience. Contribute something useful there rather than share your uninformed, ignorant, hysterical, feminist like views here.
[/quote]

there is no safe steroid use apart from TRT , it seems you do not even have a wikipedia knowledge of them, endocrinoligist study for years how our hormone system work and still they are aware they have a very limited knowledge of the complete picture

you can go here http://www.allthingsmale.com/forum/forum.php
and see how many people (mainly BB) have their hpta axis shut down because of this shit

but I am off of this thread this section is plenty of more intelligent way to harmonize and boost your T naturally

The "truth" behind non-natural bodybuilding... - mikeymike - 09-21-2013

Quote: (09-21-2013 12:11 PM)MikeCF Wrote:

Quote: (09-21-2013 07:37 AM)callaghan Wrote:

but non natural bodybuilding is the opposit direction if one wants to pursue the art of manliness :

pro BB are among the most unhealthy people that walk on earth:

No one is trying to be Ronnie Coleman or take pro levels of drugs.

That was mentioned pages ago.

Have you not read this thread or do you not know how to read or do you just want to troll?

Everyone has something to contribute.

You and other anti-muscle/anti-steroid trolls should find a thread where you actually ahve some personal experience. Contribute something useful there rather than share your uninformed, ignorant, hysterical, feminist like views here.

good on you for even trying Mike, with his anti aas bias he wasn't gonna ever listen to even the most cogent of arguments. Hopefully if we stop feeding the troll he'll head back to his allthingsmale forum and high five the other out of shape natties and regale them with the tales of the big bad steroid abusers he put in their place.

The "truth" behind non-natural bodybuilding... - MikeCF - 09-21-2013

The irony about steroids being unhealthy.

When is the last time you the average guy got blood work done? How many men know their HDL/LDL/lipid profile?

How many know how to read a blood test and understand liver count values and kidney function?

I'll bet every guy who knows a bit about AAS posting in this thread has had lab work done within the past 6 months, can read a blood test, and understands how to change things up to keep his body healthy.

I am the biggest critic in the world of dumb kids taking anadrol and shooting test before they've paid their dues in the gym.

And bodybuilding level drugs is not sustainable. (But, hey, lots of guys here have high notch counts. That's a sure way to herpes. Oh well. Live and let live. A man gets one life and needs to live HIS life on his own terms.)

But neither of those two subgroups are being discussed.

Also, it's obvious that the morons and anti-steriod trolls don't understand the difference between insulin use and steroid use.

Or know that bodybuilders who die are usually on a heavy cocktail of diuretics and die from organ failure due to heat stroke/severe dehydration rather than from "steroids."

The "truth" behind non-natural bodybuilding... - metalhaze - 09-21-2013

whatbout the book "Anabolics " 10th edition, seems the best on the subject

The "truth" behind non-natural bodybuilding... - MikeCF - 09-21-2013

Quote: (09-21-2013 01:57 PM)metalhaze Wrote:

whatbout the book "Anabolics " 10th edition, seems the best on the subject

It's a good intro and should be read by newbies.

Then you have to find legit message boards. I posted the only 2 I trust a few pages back. If you're too lazy to go look for them, you are too lazy to do AAS right. [Image: wink.gif]

There have guys who have been on for 20 years or more.

Personal experience is everything.

The "truth" behind non-natural bodybuilding... - MikeCF - 09-21-2013

See, this is why we are living in the Matrix. Trolls, morons, and ignoramuses go on and on about the dangerous of anabolic steroids.

Chew on this. Tylenol is legal, over the counter, and regulated by the FDA.

http://www.propublica.org/article/tyleno...s-directed

Quote:Quote:

In 2010, only 15 deaths were reported for the entire class of pain relievers, both prescription and over-the-counter, that includes ibuprofen, data from the CDC shows.

That same year, 321 people died from acetaminophen toxicity, according to CDC data. More than half – 166 – died from accidental overdoses. The rest overdosed deliberately or their intent was unclear. For the decade 2001 through 2010, the data shows, 1,567 people died from inadvertently taking too much of the drug.

Acetaminophen overdose sends as many as 78,000 Americans to the emergency room annually and results in 33,000 hospitalizations a year, federal data shows. Acetaminophen is also the nation’s leading cause of acute liver failure, according to data from an ongoing study funded by the National Institutes for Health.

Yeah, I'm going to live in fear of monsters under my bed, boogey men, and anabolic steroids.

You keep taking the NyQuil to help you get some zzzzzs, and when your'e sick be sure to suck on Tylenol Cold & Flu.

The "truth" behind non-natural bodybuilding... - Hades - 09-21-2013

Hey MikeCF, I can't find your post and correct me if I'm wrong, but you wrote that you think that Mark Sisson is probably taking HGH. That might or might not be true, but I've been perusing the guy's forum for a while now and he's pretty much a walking encyclopedia of nuanced health knowledge.
My guess is that he's got a lot invested in his appearance because it sells his supplement line so he hired a professional photographer to photoshop the old-guy skin marks and liver spots out of his pictures and used makeup. He seriously might not look anything like that in person. I just can't see the guy being on injectable drugs.

The "truth" behind non-natural bodybuilding... - MikeCF - 09-21-2013

^ You're under the mistaken impression that Sisson believes that test and gh are unhealthy.

The "truth" behind non-natural bodybuilding... - PoosyWrecker - 09-22-2013

Don't know if this was posted already, but there is a very entertaining documentary about this subject called Bigger, Faster, Stronger*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApmX8Q0vqKI