The Roissy Reader: Chateau Heartiste on Game - Printable Version
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The Roissy Reader: Chateau Heartiste on Game - Rhyme or Reason - 06-29-2016
Quote: (06-29-2016 10:48 AM)456 Wrote:
It's such a habit now -- just hoping to glean some good game insights.
But to be honest there's not much going on anymore if you are avoiding the negativity.
Part of the classic blog was that feeling of being in the inner-circle, the real-talk, gripping writing, turns of phrase, etc. It's hard to give that up, and it would mark a new era to go weeks without seeing what's new on that site.
Typing this out is making it pretty clear to me -- I probably should just stop visiting it.
I pretty much just look through the old archives now and avoid the newer, more political shit because it's tiresome.
The Roissy Reader: Chateau Heartiste on Game - WestIndianArchie - 06-29-2016
The best game poster/commenter at Roissy, YaReally, moved to rational male comment section.
He has a site that collects his comments from both. Well worth reading. Just finished devouring the whole thing. Took me months.
Still haven't found something that "puts it all together" or handles the state of the art.
To be honest, I don't see much in terms of real good game discussion anymore. All the good stuff is hidden by obscurity.
WIA
The Roissy Reader: Chateau Heartiste on Game - 456 - 06-29-2016
^^ yeah I've noticed YaReally's exodus, and have perused most of his archive site as well.
Unfortunately the level of MGTOW rage at Rational Male seems to steer YaReally's comments towards re-caps and rantiness -- and while it still has some gold, I'm finding his long screeds a littttttle tiresome as well.
Too bad he dislikes this forum. I'd like to see YaReally engage with some of the different types of commenters we've got here.
The Roissy Reader: Chateau Heartiste on Game - HonantheBarbarian - 06-29-2016
Yeah, as sussinct and direct as YaReally is, he seems to throw a lot of shade on Roosh and the forum in general.
That being said, I Have read his entire archive and there is some serious gold in there.
The Roissy Reader: Chateau Heartiste on Game - debeguiled - 06-29-2016
@WIA
Did you learn anything new from him, or did he just affirm things you already knew?
The Roissy Reader: Chateau Heartiste on Game - WestIndianArchie - 06-29-2016
Quote: (06-29-2016 03:22 PM)debeguiled Wrote:
@WIA
Did you learn anything new from him, or did he just affirm things you already knew?
Tons of brand new (to me) stuff, and better ways to think about old stuff.
For example, he often harps about hyper focusing your time on learning game and doing nothing else. That's how I got good. I can think of a few guys that got good that way as well.
I still think he's wrong on some things that he thinks Rollo is right about. And there is even more game denialism there than here.
You do this long enough, and you'll discover things on your own. That's why I can see guys with low post counts can be legit because they'll have discovered the same things I did in that situation. And guys that can't teach or advise have inflexible ideas - and that comes from not really doing this.
But old pua was about lots of guys working on the same problems and drilling down why things didn't go as expected. And also believing that "impossible" situations aren't always so unwinnable.
What I'm missing in my game is meaningful feedback.
I reflected on one perfect date that went south and I didn't know why. I knew I had done something wrong because the girl didn't react the way she was supposed to. He said something about triggering asd, and that made me look at an old scenario with new eyes.
It wasn't what I directly did or said, but the "when" was the issue.
Part of the beauty of old school pickup was the organization. Had I been thinking this was a problem between the last stage of comfort and the first stage of the end game - I would have added more notches and that one in particular.
Current pua boards have already gone through the mystery method phase into the natural game stage, and now into inner game and integrated lifestyle game stage. My issues are more in trying to make sense of it all.
The next obvious thing to me for pickup is to develop business and political leaders. RSD and the rest don't see it. Jeffy could be grooming the next Mark Zuckerberg, or working the pseudo sexual relationships between capital and founders in silicon valley.
I've been meaning to write yet another post about the mystery theory on how everyone hooks up, but I think some of it extends into the man as a pawn in a woman's game idea that has a smidge of currency.
I don't like to lay down the law. I like giving folks a way to think about an issue.
WIA
The Roissy Reader: Chateau Heartiste on Game - WestIndianArchie - 06-29-2016
Quote: (06-29-2016 02:48 PM)456 Wrote:
^^ yeah I've noticed YaReally's exodus, and have perused most of his archive site as well.
Unfortunately the level of MGTOW rage at Rational Male seems to steer YaReally's comments towards re-caps and rantiness -- and while it still has some gold, I'm finding his long screeds a littttttle tiresome as well.
Too bad he dislikes this forum. I'd like to see YaReally engage with some of the different types of commenters we've got here.
He's wrong and right about some of the RVF criticisms. Some guys are seeking poosy paradise because they can't put their egos on the line in the West. But I've dated young blonde sorority sisters.
My interest in say Romania, Senegal, Vietnam, Lebanon or Sweden isn't because I can't get pretty girls in America.
With Japan, it's not like I hadn't met pretty Japanese girls in the States. When I touched down at Narita, it's was like whoa. Went to the Nissan showroom and realized they not exporting some models over here.
"They come with tits and ass? That one had an afro? This one is wearing a headwrap? wtf!"
However i want to see a much better analysis of guys running ESL game.
Black God factor,
wgf,
Reech American/Westerner...beyond all that there is basic man to woman "understanding" that I know a lot of the successful guys are using but don't have the classical game training to break down.
WIA
The Roissy Reader: Chateau Heartiste on Game - Rhyme or Reason - 06-29-2016
Quote: (06-29-2016 03:07 PM)HonantheBarbarian Wrote:
Yeah, as sussinct and direct as YaReally is, he seems to throw a lot of shade on Roosh and the forum in general.
That being said, I Have read his entire archive and there is some serious gold in there.
Can you point me in the direction of these criticisms?
The Roissy Reader: Chateau Heartiste on Game - WestIndianArchie - 06-29-2016
Lol, don't get this thread locked.
In your browser type
Site:yareallyarchive.com and roosh. Google will return all of the insults.
WIA
The Roissy Reader: Chateau Heartiste on Game - HonantheBarbarian - 06-30-2016
Quote: (06-29-2016 04:11 PM)Red_Pillage Wrote:
Quote: (06-29-2016 03:07 PM)HonantheBarbarian Wrote:
Yeah, as sussinct and direct as YaReally is, he seems to throw a lot of shade on Roosh and the forum in general.
That being said, I Have read his entire archive and there is some serious gold in there.
Can you point me in the direction of these criticisms?
I'm sure searching under the keywords WIA suggested would work, but if you actually read any of YaReally's stuff you will see that it is dizzyingly long and his posts stretch for what seems like forever. Like sometimes i'll read a post of his while eating a bowl of cereal or some shit and look away for a second to do something, and when I glance back at the screen its very difficult to pick up where I left off.
With that being said, and without bringing too much controversy to this thread, a few of the general criticisms I remember from him are that we, as a community, throw away pussy too easily. We are too eager to next girls that don't comply exactly to our demands. According to his outlook our overall style of game is too passive and generalized. Also, I have heard him mention several times that there is an undercurrent of woman-hating here and that we have an unhealthy outlook towards females in general.
Where we view this as a strength (bitch ain't gonna waste me time/dollars/logistics) he sees us as ignoring opportunities to grow.
I like the guy, but I don't think these are exactly fair or accurate criticisms. We have so many different guys with so many different things they bring to the table. Think about how different Gio, WIA, AB and LINUX are as people and as players. Too add to that, Rvf has a lot of guys just starting out, getting out of bad divorces, shedding some serious social conditioning.
While I agree that hyper focusing on game is optimal for getting serious skills, and probably the best route, a lot of guys in the general population just don't have the time or logistics to make that happen. The basic methods espoused here give everyone from all walks a starting block to get some skin in the game. And I think that has value and merit.
The Roissy Reader: Chateau Heartiste on Game - puckerman - 06-30-2016
Thanks for the post.
The Roissy Reader: Chateau Heartiste on Game - WestIndianArchie - 06-30-2016
Yeah I used to be self conscious about being long winded. But Ya could use a little more discipline to rein in some of the commentary.
And I really blame Manson for the "don't deal with girls that test you" mentality.that pervades the 'Sphere. Roosh never said that. Roissy was famous for how to deal with tests in a pithy manner.
Ya makes the case for tests being
1) indicators of interest
2) opportunities to turbo charge her little flicker of interest.
And this was a key aha for me
3) players are baiting a test because he can surprise her unconscious with some game jujitsu.
My subconscious knew this was true, but I hadn't articulated it. I have never thought of myself as a natural, but after a while your game goes on autopilot and you learn without having to be taught. But if you don't keep getting instruction or trying new stuff...well...
The other thing that he gets that I think all modern game is missing is that it's about pushing her buttons. And not by humble bragging about your making a bird house from scratch with your sustaining woodworking tools.
WIA
The Roissy Reader: Chateau Heartiste on Game - 456 - 06-30-2016
Roissy's "amused mastery" and "bratty kid sister" concepts were very helpful to me -- I remember back in 2009 ending some text exchange with a girl "alright, kid", and really meaning it. A minute detail, but I started to internalize that attitude. She became one of the first actual "plates" I had (i.e. girl I was seeing not under a "dating" pretext).
I see how "amused mastery" can devolve into a dangerous "sit back and don't put in too much effort, don't be like RSD, all extroverted" vibe for guys who misinterpret, or are naturally hoping game works out to be "easy" like that. On a forum as robust as this one, emphasizing many non-game aspects of a man's life, one will find members occasionally lambasting deliberate game practice and challenges as "wasting time chasing coose", but that's a red herring.
I believe YaReally's underlying critique is that this forum (not Roosh per se) has moved into that territory, which he aptly calls "James Bond style game" -- just show up and exude cool and wait for approach invitations.
Roissy always preached "bust-a-move" -- another classic mantra that is on point and helpful.
I think what Ya and WIA and others have really been bringing to the surface is how much action / choice / direction WE can make. It's been said already -- use roadblocks and obstacles to level up, experiment, or roll out the time-tested weaponry on these girls.
The forum has a wealth of perspectives, so it's easy to single out any given one. There is gold buried here, buried in Roissy's archives, as well as in Ya's screeds. Why should the best stuff be easy and obvious to find?
The Roissy Reader: Chateau Heartiste on Game - XXL - 07-01-2016
Quote: (06-30-2016 12:25 AM)HonantheBarbarian Wrote:
With that being said, and without bringing too much controversy to this thread, a few of the general criticisms I remember from him are that we, as a community, throw away pussy too easily. We are too eager to next girls that don't comply exactly to our demands. According to his outlook our overall style of game is too passive and generalized. Also, I have heard him mention several times that there is an undercurrent of woman-hating here and that we have an unhealthy outlook towards females in general.
Where we view this as a strength (bitch ain't gonna waste me time/dollars/logistics) he sees us as ignoring opportunities to grow.
While I agree that hyper focusing on game is optimal for getting serious skills, and probably the best route, a lot of guys in the general population just don't have the time or logistics to make that happen. The basic methods espoused here give everyone from all walks a starting block to get some skin in the game. And I think that has value and merit.
That's true. That's because he comes from PUA community where the game is all about conversion. It's almost a synonym. All the tips and tricks, routines, systems, methods, techniques are created for that main purpose. To create opportunities on your own instead of taking an advantage of easy cases. To see the girl you want and win her with your game in spite of resistance, skepticism, shittests, tough scenarios, etc.
Remember that "complicated" thread about muslim girl? He would jump in and post a essay about what the guy can do and literally diss in between the verses everyone who said to next her cause it's a hopeless case with no chance as he knows that OP could do this, this and this. That's the pua mentality he comes from. I understand it. This is why he shits on what manosphere teaches cause he views is as wattered down pseudo game advice for "civilians" who just want to taste a little bit what game is, find semi decent chick who already likes them and keep her to have it handled.
Quote: (06-30-2016 09:22 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:
And I really blame Manson for the "don't deal with girls that test you" mentality.that pervades the 'Sphere. Roosh never said that. Roissy was famous for how to deal with tests in a pithy manner.
Ya makes the case for tests being
1) indicators of interest
2) opportunities to turbo charge her little flicker of interest.
And this was a key aha for me
3) players are baiting a test because he can surprise her unconscious with some game jujitsu.
My subconscious knew this was true, but I hadn't articulated it. I have never thought of myself as a natural, but after a while your game goes on autopilot and you learn without having to be taught. But if you don't keep getting instruction or trying new stuff...well...
The other thing that he gets that I think all modern game is missing is that it's about pushing her buttons. And not by humble bragging about your making a bird house from scratch with your sustaining woodworking tools.
That's Manson stuff is the worse game advice ever in my opinion. I have no idea why this book is so popular but I get the feeling that just by the fact that it IS that popular explains it all. The notion of "nexting" is popular too in the sphere and I have no problem with it but again, the actual game in original sense is not about screening and nexting cause that's what every other dude does. Every dude goes in [if at all], tests the waters, seeks green lights, and stops at yellow ones like a nice decent car driver. That's not game, that's just being a dude.
[I'm preaching to the choir WIA, I'm speaking to all now]
Whereas game is where you can shine in social pressure. The old school technique is provoking shittests on purpose just to be able to deal with them and amp the attraction to the highest level. There was a saying in the community that all you have to do is pass the shittests. Which has a lot of truth to it. But again, this is advanced stuff, you need to have it all broken down, think quick on your feet to deal with unexpected as well as have scripted moves and answers, have emotional strength, etc etc. This is why you see some pick up guys doing outlandish things and you don't get it why they're doing it. They want to push the chick to the edge [figuratively speaking], keep her there for a while and bring her back to normal, how they want it and when they want it. That's why.
Quote: (06-30-2016 11:43 AM)456 Wrote:
I think what Ya and WIA and others have really been bringing to the surface is how much action / choice / direction WE can make. It's been said already -- use roadblocks and obstacles to level up, experiment, or roll out the time-tested weaponry on these girls.
Yeah the real beauty of the game is that we have MUCH MORE ammo to use in our advantage than dressing well, posting up, shooting witty/snarky comments, looking, and hoping she will come with us.
To me the most scary part is that we already have everything we need to play the game the best we can and it's actually easier than we make it so the thought that now we don't have what we want out of our intimate life stings our ego and lower our self esteem. Like I remember when I didn't have shit and I was crushing it.
The Roissy Reader: Chateau Heartiste on Game - WestIndianArchie - 07-01-2016
Quote: (07-01-2016 05:05 AM)XXL Wrote:
Quote: (06-30-2016 11:43 AM)456 Wrote:
I think what Ya and WIA and others have really been bringing to the surface is how much action / choice / direction WE can make. It's been said already -- use roadblocks and obstacles to level up, experiment, or roll out the time-tested weaponry on these girls.
Yeah the real beauty of the game is that we have MUCH MORE ammo to use in our advantage than dressing well, posting up, shooting witty/snarky comments, looking, and hoping she will come with us.
To me the most scary part is that we already have everything we need to play the game the best we can and it's actually easier than we make it so the thought that now we don't have what we want out of our intimate life stings our ego and lower our self esteem. Like I remember when I didn't have shit and I was crushing it.
Exactly.
I have everything I need game wise.
I'm just not taking the car to the track like I used to.
WIA
The Roissy Reader: Chateau Heartiste on Game - 456 - 07-01-2016
Quote: (07-01-2016 05:05 AM)XXL Wrote:
To me the most scary part is that we already have everything we need to play the game the best we can and it's actually easier than we make it so the thought that now we don't have what we want out of our intimate life stings our ego and lower our self esteem. Like I remember when I didn't have shit and I was crushing it.
^^ Jeez, that stings with truth -- I remember a summer of cashflow problems years ago, everything was going wrong -- yet I was tearing it up effortlessly. ZFG really paid off.
Now that things are going much better in business, health, and general shit-togetherness, I feel a little too conservative sometimes. Thinking about investments, clients, making more personal time, etc. All that responsibility may be inhibiting my spontaneity! I still do well, but my drive to go out there and tear it up is far lower lately -- just less time to prioritize game. It helps that girls tend to stick to me. I'm almost becoming a mini-serial-monogamist, because it's just so much more conducive to business :/
Big wake-up call to hone back in on the essence.
The Roissy Reader: Chateau Heartiste on Game - MathewEdessa - 07-01-2016
I remember the day I first stumbled upon Chateau Heartiste (I had just found the red pill corner of the internet too)--I stayed up that entire night reading his blog posts.
I still don't know anything about him personally though.
The Roissy Reader: Chateau Heartiste on Game - Rhyme or Reason - 08-16-2016
This is one of my favorites to read and read again:
https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2010/07/...wn-status/
It's kinda morbid...and I can't get enough!
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The Roissy Reader: Chateau Heartiste on Game - Repo - 08-16-2016
I count myself lucky to have been introduced to game before that blog went all political.
The Roissy Reader: Chateau Heartiste on Game - pancakemouse - 08-17-2016
The more I read Heartiste the more I realize how ridiculous the shit he writes is.
Honestly, I tried some of his text game out and the über-alpha stuff just doesn't work.
I think his stuff works best when you look at it as one extreme and try to position yourself somewhere in the middle.
The Roissy Reader: Chateau Heartiste on Game - Switch - 08-17-2016
Quote: (08-17-2016 12:30 AM)corsega Wrote:
The more I read Heartiste the more I realize how ridiculous the shit he writes is.
Honestly, I tried some of his text game out and the über-alpha stuff just doesn't work.
I think his stuff works best when you look at it as one extreme and try to position yourself somewhere in the middle.
Every bit of game material you read must be absorbed and applied within the context of your own experiences. What works for Heartiste will work for guy A but not for guy B. It's all about congruence. If you start texting like Heartiste but don't give off that vibe in real life, it's simply not going to work. Adjust it accordingly.
Also I think of Heartiste's principles as the 'pinnacle of alpha'. One should strive to become what Heartiste describes as alpha. Once you naturally text like Heartiste says an alpha texts, you have become alpha. At this point, good game has simply become part of your personality.
Remember this, 'game' is simply emulating the behaviors of true alpha males, with the end goal of becoming an alpha male yourself, such that there is no more 'faking it'. Heartiste is in the business of describing true alpha male behaviors, and it is your job to emulate them until you become them.
The Roissy Reader: Chateau Heartiste on Game - iknowexactly - 08-17-2016
Quote: (02-25-2015 11:12 AM)ManVsMachine Wrote:
Carol Dwecks (2007-2010) more recent research flies right in the face of his HBD siren call. Her studies aren't just correlative like so many of the 80s-early 00s literature heartiste likes to cite, she has experimentally proven her findings as well. She is currently one of the top psychologists in her subfield, and is currently seen as a gamechanger in her intervention studies running right now that are benefiting disenfranchised youths.
Look Mom, a real intellectual!!. +1 rep point for turning me on to Dweck, her insights on the effects of learner worldview on learning are excellent, I just read an great interview with her here.
http://www.educationworld.com/a_issues/c...t010.shtml
This woman looks like someone who's made real contributions. The calls for women not being allowed to vote or go to college are pretty retrograde when you compare the value of someone like this to people who make those comments.
I've been one of them. I once said "Women don't have thoughts, they have reflexes" lol. Obviously this woman is a counterexample.
The Roissy Reader: Chateau Heartiste on Game - iknowexactly - 08-17-2016
Quote: (11-12-2014 12:41 AM)Avon Barksdale Wrote:
Why did Chateau Heartiste devolve into a lot of race baiting foolishness?
I believe highly intelligent people are more prone to paranoia than average. The ability of a sharp mind to establish connections between seemingly unconnected phenomena has a downside, in the form of false positives-- "It's all the ((Jews!")) from someone who just came from a doctor's appointment in a medical office building with 30% Jews working in there. Very smart people often don't get shown they're wrong often enough to develop humility about their beliefs. One evil financier sours the paranoid's view of the race's value. A form of overgeneralization.
The urge to find a solution in the form of "those bad people over there who are not like me/us" comes out in them. Once the intellectual leaders (relatively speaking) establish the acceptability of that tone, the uncritical, angry masses come out in force, comfortable their venom is accepted in that company.
"The worst are filled with a passionate intensity."
The Roissy Reader: Chateau Heartiste on Game - iknowexactly - 08-17-2016
Quote: (03-05-2015 01:20 PM)LouieG Wrote:
Quote: (03-04-2015 11:48 PM)Farmageddon Wrote:
Quote:Quote:
I am surprised Roissy never joined the forum. He knows a lot and he and Roosh are buddies.
Roissy is a member here. I think he only had about 10-20 posts though. I'm too lazy to search.
You can just check the members list: Roissy.
Allegedly the biggest American intellectual of the past 100 years, but he doesn't even have a rep point? Guess that settles that debate.
He's a really talented writer, but history indicates wallowing in race hate doesn't end well for the haters.
The Roissy Reader: Chateau Heartiste on Game - XXL - 08-17-2016
He's waaaaaaay too intellectual the way he writes about game. There's nothing that serious about game to be honest. However he contrasts it with "spot the alpha in the picture" posts which is straight up moronic so yeah I guess he sends mixed signals. Good game CH
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