Great April 1st!!!

I would venture that what game teaches is confidence. I've always agreed with the premise that women choose US - and she decides pretty early in the interaction if she's open to giving you some. You definitely must meet the looks requirement for her to consider you at all. I think this is where "game," or the confidence it gives you comes into play. Men overwhelmingly must approach and initiate the interaction. The bolder women will throw out a passive IOI to get you to initiate. You may decide to show extreme confidence, or you may run more reserved "don't fuck it up" game. I think what Tuth is alluding to is she makes her decision on how you look, and the "game" you run either confirms her decision, or may make her decide "nevermind."

Quote: (04-01-2012 01:53 PM)tenderman100 Wrote:  

Quote: (04-01-2012 01:03 PM)MidniteSpecial Wrote:  

Dude even most girls don't get game and they def won't admit to that being the reason they banged you.. they will try to justify it with the way your hair was or blah blah blah...at the end of the day most these bitches don't even know why they like us they just do, same reason they fall out of their white knight beta and just can't tell their girlfriends the reason..ie- "I don't love him anymore, I don't know why, I want to but I just don't"...because its wired in their brains to love an alpha, even if they don't know what the f that is.

Never believe what women say -- or rather be highly skeptical of all their statements about men and relationships.

But always believe what they do.

exactly....I shake my head and just laugh when I here chics give advice to betas on girls...It's hilarious. Some of their advice is the worstttttt!

Quote: (04-01-2012 01:58 PM)esperar Wrote:  

I have the worst game on this forum, and worse game than 99% of guys, yet I still attract women. Last night a 7 was checking me out at a club, and on the way home on the train a 7 with an 8 body with big tits kept checking me out, with her body pointing towards me while playing with her hair. I felt her eyes on me constantly. Too bad I freeze.

Game helps, no doubt, but if a chick isn't attracted to you, there's nothing you can do about it. I see game as helping build what is already there, and keeping the upperhand.

You attract women but you don't get them. At least last night you didn't. So obv this is where game DOES really work. You need to change your mind frame and stop saying things like, "I have the worst game on this forum." Change the way you look at things and the things you look at change.

If a chic isnt attracted to you its because you didn't attract her...plain and simple...this can be looks yeah, but mostly likey it is something you are doing or saying that is killing the attraction. Looks can only take you so far and I don't care if your'e a gq model if you come with that white knight shit you still gonna get played.

Tuthmosis has hit on something big here.

I think we should all give up.

Obviously the way youy get girls is by being confident.

And if that doesn't work and you aren't a natural, then you have no hope and should go masturbate in a corner while waiting to meet and marry a 5 from your church single adult group.

I'm not doubting it works, it does, but let's be honest here, if you are hideous looking or don't have money there's little you can do to score a 10. What I'm trying to say is, you can attract women even if you don't have game, like me, and having game doesn't mean you will be able to attract women.

Quote: (04-01-2012 02:22 PM)Keyser Söze Wrote:  

Tuthmosis has hit on something big here.

I think we should all give up.

Obviously the way youy get girls is by being confident.

And if that doesn't work and you aren't a natural, then you have no hope and should go masturbate in a corner while waiting to meet and marry a 5 from your church single adult group.

From what I understand, he is essentially saying game works, just not for the reasons people have been saying. It really doesn't matter WHY it works though really as long as you are fucking the chicks.

Quote: (04-01-2012 02:33 PM)esperar Wrote:  

Quote: (04-01-2012 02:22 PM)Keyser Söze Wrote:  

Tuthmosis has hit on something big here.

I think we should all give up.

Obviously the way youy get girls is by being confident.

And if that doesn't work and you aren't a natural, then you have no hope and should go masturbate in a corner while waiting to meet and marry a 5 from your church single adult group.

From what I understand, he is essentially saying game works, just not for the reasons people have been saying. It really doesn't matter WHY it works though really as long as you are fucking the chicks.

I suspect you may not have gotten the point of my post.

Actually, I was thinking that myself, I just wasn't quite sure what you were trying to say.

LOL at guys responding seriously to this.

Well played, Tuthmosis.

Quote: (04-01-2012 03:03 PM)esperar Wrote:  

Actually, I was thinking that myself, I just wasn't quite sure what you were trying to say.

Sarcasm.

Of course game works.

There is no debate.

Game for men is like makeup and heels for girls. You present the "best version" of yourself. Thus the improvement gained is limited by your starting conditions.

Having no game is like a girl wearing no make up.

Having bad game (bad posture or self esteem issues) is like like a girl not showering or sleeping then going out.

I know this is an april fool's joke, but I actually agree that most "game tactics" are bullshit, or well marketed crap, and in addition, I think most guys can't honestly ascertain what exactly got them laid, and isolate variables most of the time.

I basically believe in empirical game, or "just being yourself", and being very assertive and caveman, and then adjust as necessary, learning what actually works for you. Any time I try to think about game, fuck, I get worse.

But what really gets me is the "new wave" of "natural game". jesus. that shit is just fucking retarded.

"Game" makes dudes insecure as fuck, that they have to micromanage every aspect of their beings, and sacrifice everything just to get laid.

What's interesting about rooshvforum, is that combining travel with game, and seeing that going to certain places increases results, naturally undermines "game dogma". Because, if going to specific overseas countries makes it WAY easier to get laid, then obviously it's not just all game that matters, and in fact, it may be that game doesn't matter almost at all in those contexts.
Yet interestingly, most on this forum still uphold game dogma.

Well, even the biggest game skeptics like Aaron Sleazy still talk about 'minimal game', so there is at least some minimal set of behavioral patterns involved. At a minimum you need to be confident enough to approach, keep a conversation going and escalate.

I've always liked the empirical, field-test it, no non-sense, practical what works approach of the PUAs. The problem is that there are so many variables, it's often going to be very difficult to isolate exactly what the reasons for pick-up success/failure were. Hence you end up getting a lot of gimmicky bullshit and weird theories/ideologies/rationalizations mixed into the game stuff that have no basis in fact.

At the end of the day, if you have a theory/idea about pick-up that's not supported by solid science, you just can't be that sure that your theory/idea is anything more than rationalization/entertainment on your part.

If you look at the actual bona-fida science behind pick-up and sexual attraction (evolutionary psychology), so far as I can tell, the studies actually tend to come down more on the anti-gamer side; according to the actual bona-fida scientific studies, only looks and money are strongly correlated with what attracts women; pure looks for short-flings (the alpha strategy) and resources for long term relationships (the beta provider strategy).

I've come to realize its the Overall VIBE & energy sharing between the 2 people, the other people & surroundings.

The VIBE can be a mixture of Fun, Playful, tension, Attraction, Fun, Drunkennes, Comfort / Discomfort.. every possible feeling/emotion that MIXES together.

The VIBE is also very dynamic and changing moment to moment, from unknown person, to playful, flirty sexual.

The overall VIBE is a varied mix of attraction by looks, or body language, clothes, social proof, conversational skill/ banter, GAME! (push/pull, alpha behavior, DOMINANCE, social proof) etc etc. Even if a guys looks arent spectacular, his IMMEDIATE SOCIAL VALUE "PERCEPTION" can get him ONSes.

Fact is even if/ when we debrief the girls, what they think or say was the reason they were into you is only an INCOMPLETE LOGICAL backward analysis from her Point of View.

Just as we know that the ADVISE girls give NICE guys is wrong, most times they are not SUPER CLEAR why they hooked up with you.

Its a mixed bag of what is seen, heard, felt & sensed in the interaction.

I think people are missing out on Social Matching theory here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matching_hypothesis

I agree with Tuth. Joke or not, he hit on some ideas I've had for a while.

Consider this...given that we are attracted most to people who are as attractive to us, don't you guys think that the game-aware people are just finally meeting their proper social match?

Most of us who are fairly experienced with game often talk alot about 7s and 8s. I think we can all safely agree that we'd bang a 7 or an 8 whos DTF. But are our 7s and 8s all the same? This is the point that I think alot of game enthusiasts ignore

http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2007/11/2...ree-girls/

I'm pretty sure we can all agree on the top tier, hottest girls at a venue. But with the less attractive ones, things start getting hairier. This is where I think Social Matching theory hits the Game Aware in a way they couldn't know. The 7's and 8's that a 6'2", square jawed, rich & athletic ideal male bangs are probably not the same 7's and 8's that an average joe, filled with confidence with his newfound game, would bang. The two men perceive women as a whole differently. The attractive women they *regularly* score are good matches. To make matters worse, there are so many ugly girls out there (fat/horse faced) that ANY fit girl with an average face will most likely be a 7 or 8 to many guys, depending on her environment.

That's not to say that those well-endowed with game can't score a genuine 9 or 10. They can, but can they KEEP that interest past the lay? There's a big difference between the first lay and the third. Yeah, you might be able to swing from that 10 with social proof in between the legs of the next dime, but will these girls be texting you randomly throughout the week because you were giving them tingles while not even there? Or is the girl already at the bar looking for an upgrade? You won't not even know she's there. I think to some extent, game MIMICS the flipping of attraction switches that are triggered when women find their social match.

The cute 7 who currently can't get off my dick probably isn't a 7 in Gronk's mind. She's probably more of a 5. All that being said, I'm a firm believer that you can go up 1 point on your score (on a 10 point scale) with game. Thus a "6" guy with solid game can lock down a "7" girl, and let me go out on a limb and say a more *objective* 7. I think it's objective here because a genuine "6" guy probably only has to run DFTU game on a genuine "6" girl. Game draws that "7" in.

When I consider the most famous PUAs, it holds true with them too. Mystery is tall and attractive. He's playing on EASYMODE. Style is relatively short, but attractive. Cajun? Attractive. Even Tyler Durden isn't that bad looking either. At the most, Tyler's playing the game on NORMAL difficulty.

Conversely, I know some "9" and "10" guys (6'2-6'4", great looks, dominant) who completely ignore all of the IOIs hotties are dropping them while they hook up with girls much below their level, as they don't know game. I shouldn't be too jealous of them because I get approached too, but I'm always a little upset when I see a hot girl approach one of them with a stupid question like "Whos the DJ playing?" and watch her linger around for awhile while he DOESNT make a move.

Game gets you with that proper match.

My own personal example, I have a "little black book" where I keep info about the girls that I notch. At the end of each blurb, I give the girl a rating out of 10. Looking back through my *EARLY* notches, many of the ratings I gave to girls (mostly 5's-7s), these girls probably didn't warrant. I didn't have game back then, and I was really happy to be banging a plain jane, and rating her higher than she deserved. I was also running easy DFTU game.

There is alot to be said about the psychology of post-rationalization in our decision making. Our brain automatically places more value on the choice we made over the other choices (other girls at the bar/venue). If there were two exact replica 7s, and we had to choose between the two, we would 100% of the time hindsightedly rationalize that we chose the hotter one. Similarly, we find the plain, fit girl we chose to be sexier (and rate higher) than the OTHER plain, fit girls in the venue.

I think Social Matching Theory + Avoiding the cognitive dissonance from a bad decision = Settling. And all men AND women do it at some point or another.

There is alot to be said about "Don't Fuck Things Up" Game.

Epic post Cyrus.

I agree with 99% of that. While the equation is easier for women "get hotter lower standards" as roost put it what you're essntially saying is men are a package.

Women are steak and eggs
Men are a full course meal

You basically need to maximize everything of you want to be a real player. Maxing out is easier for some in certain categories.

For myself, physical gains are a joke, I'm a monster, making money is not hard (right now), nutrition comes easy.

Concentrate forces on what u are good at first, I hit the gym hard after getting to the "golden ratio" hips to shoulders an chest and arms etc. I weight 160 bench 250 and am roughly 29/39 right now waist to shoulder/chest.

Once maxed time to work on the other parts I am not naturally good at and apply my extreme competitiveness. Such as sober day game talking, knowing when to escalate and building social proof as I come off as really not giving a shit to the nth degree. But that's the path, find strengths max out, find weaknesses and choose one to max out one at a time.

I love these last few posts.

I know Tut was joking but what he said was true - Looks matter. Social matching matters. That's obvious..

It would have been funnier if he said - "Game DOES work! It's not about looks, race, or social matching. You can be short, ugly, poor, and stinky, but if you push-pull and neg correctly, you can pull a super model!

Quote: (04-25-2012 12:44 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

I love these last few posts.

I know Tut was joking but what he said was true - Looks matter. Social matching matters. That's obvious..

It would have been funnier if he said - "Game DOES work! It's not about looks, race, or social matching. You can be short, ugly, poor, and stinky, but if you push-pull and neg correctly, you can pull a super model!

I'm not sure if Tuth was joking or not. Tuth, come clean for us, man.

Hahaha yes. No such thing as game begat, watch tv all day, and jerk off till you can't anymore when you break your wrist!

Blueprint:
"wear a pink feather 7 inches below your right shoulder. Place a hat curved 67 degrees and put a slight sparkle of sequins on there (ultimate peacock). Wear a corset to shape your body 'perfectly' with no workout routine. also be sure to open up with exactly this line "Hello where did you go to college", escalate with touching the top right shoulder in a pinchin motion and then she'll bang!"

Because people with rigid beliefs are so cool to hang with!

Quote: (04-25-2012 12:52 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

I'm not sure if Tuth was joking or not. Tuth, come clean for us, man.

Guys, guys, the OP was an April Troll's Joke. When have I ever done any game denialism around here? I'm a Game Fundamentalist™, if anything. I think game is in everything we do and think.

I'm afraid, judging by some of the elaborate responses later in this thread, I did more harm than good with this post. Next time I troll, I'll make it more obvious.

I've already got something cooking up for next April 1st, I can't wait!

Once I saw the "date of posting" and the username of the OP, I knew something was up.

I thought the post where I say that I'm in the top 1 percent in looks and included "a picture of myself"--wearing full Pharaonic regalia--would have made it obvious.

Quote: (04-25-2012 06:36 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

Quote: (04-25-2012 12:52 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

I'm not sure if Tuth was joking or not. Tuth, come clean for us, man.

Guys, guys, the OP was an April Troll's Joke. When have I ever done any game denialism around here? I'm a Game Fundamentalist™, if anything. I think game is in everything we do and think.

I'm afraid, judging by some of the elaborate responses later in this thread, I did more harm than good with this post. Next time I troll, I'll make it more obvious.

I need to teach you some Troll Game, Tuth.